Tsunayoshi Sawada VS 25th Baam - Version 2.0 (1-1-0)

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I have no creativity and so I will do one more match with these two, but with their most "recent" versions of them so to speak

Ultimate Dying Will Mode Tsuna vs Red Thryssa Transformations Baam (6-C version)

Speed Equalized:

Vongola Decimo: 1 (ImNot4nUser)

Slayer Candidate: 1 (Arceus0x)

Inconclusive:

 

[TheSuperC]

following

 

[ImNot4nUser]

yes yes yes yes

Bam is higher with AP as he is 15 Gigatons.
Tsuna casually beats a character that two shot a Tsuna that is 6 Gigatons.

I think this time Tsuna have...

Tsuna can use Gravity Manip to pin down Bam, use petrification in case that Bam gets too close for a H2H and then seal Bam tho sealing requires hand sign, for long range he can absorb Bam attacks and get stronger also han sign, Tsuna can null Bam attacks via vongola mant and he supposedly is above a large chain of resistance to power null, but idk if his attacks resist power null. Has Vongola intuition which is instinct based Clairvoyance and precog, which Bam dont resist.
So Tsuna:

• Gravity manip
• Advantage in close combat and distance combat
• Can absorb attacks and become stronger
• Bam gets closer and he might eat a sealing gg
• Vongola intuition
• Petrification
• stat reduction(?)

Bam can win via the classic inmobilization+Bypass durability, via inmobilzation he renders hand based absorbtion and sealing useless,m but Tsuna still have petrification... But Bam danger sense will render that as well and he absorbs+Power Null it via Shinsu Orb: Shinwonryu.

• Inmobilization+Oneshot with piercing technique
• Power null Tsuna long range attacks
• just as skilled
• reactive power level and instictive reaction

Hmmmm. Gravity manip is a hard one. I vote for Tsuna, stat reduction+gravity manip+sealing is a good combo. Bam cover some things I THINK

• Gravity manip
• Advantage in close combat and distance combat Inmobilization
• Can absorb attacks and become stronger Inmoblization
• Bam gets closer and he might eat a sealing gg Inmoblization
• Vongola intuition
• Petrification Orb Shinwonryu?
• stat reduction(?)

hmm i will wait for other opinions...
For now its pretty equal but i go for Tsuna more than not, Gravity manip is not hand sign based and its pretty hardcounter too.

 

[Arceus0x]

Shinsoo isn't exactly gonna get affected by gravity so bam could use shinsoo attacks while pinned down and y'all know how hard he can go with the danmaku.
Statistics reduction can be overcome by reactive power level and rage power

I assume tsuna starts with pinning down, that gives time for baam to either immobilize or shinsoo spam. Also shinsoo black hole exists

 

[Arceus0x]

Ah right didn't bam have power null?

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Ah right didn't bam have power null?

Yeah, via the light of Orb: Shinwonryu his area arounds him gets power nulled of energy attacks

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah I'm voting for Baam again he just has a huge advantage

Also ur wrong baam is fully resistant to jahad tier precog if i remember correctly

 

[Arceus0x]

Also how does mongola mant work? Because if it can just null a few attacks at a time it is useless, if it can null everything then this will probably be a stomp as baam would lose all wincons

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Yeah I'm voting for Baam again he just has a huge advantage

Also ur wrong baam is fully resistant to jahad tier precog if i remember correctly

Nop. Tsuna precog and cllairvoyance is not seeing causality like Zahard. Tsuna is Sheer intuition

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Also how does mongola mant work? Because if it can just null a few attacks at a time it is useless, if it can null everything then this will probably be a stomp as baam would lose all wincons

It nulls all the attacks that hit it, and it have a large chain of bypassing(?)* resistance to power null aparently, so rip Danmaku

 

[Arceus0x]

Can't find shiz about the mant how does it look?

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Can't find shiz about the mant how does it look?

Spoiler: hm

 

[Arceus0x]

Doesn't baam resist power nullm

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Doesn't baam resist power nullm

Mant supposedly bypasses several resistance to it, a large one but i am not knowledgeable enough

 

[Arceus0x]

Thorn also resists resistances but ok whatever

Baams leads with immobilization and then either blasts tsuna apart beforw he can do anything or he does the same with a physical attack.
Same can be done whilst pinned down by gravity

 

[YungManzi]

As I said concerning immobilization in the previous battle.

Sounds like rain flame tbh. And Tsuna actually scales above people who resist rain flames iirc (It's his power null resistance; but rain flame is technically statistics reduction and paralysis inducement in addition to power nullification)

Our accepted explanation for rain flames is literally:

• Tranquility: Rain Flame's characteristic. It allows the Flame's wielder to slow down their opponent's movements or attacks. One proficient in the usage of the Rain Flame can use its Tranquility characteristic to such a degree that anything entering a certain barrier will be completely immobilized, effectively breaking a machine or killing a human.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Thorn also resists resistances but ok whatever

Baams leads with immobilization and then either blasts tsuna apart beforw he can do anything

Vongola Intuition says no

or he does the same with a physical attack.
Same can be done whilst pinned down by gravity

?

As I said concerning immobilization in the previous battle.


Our accepted explanation for rain flames is literally:

And as i said before, Inmoblization bypass a lot of layers to resistance to it. like even at floor 2 ppl has resistance to it, the higher you go the more dense it is. There are 135 floors and a ranker goes thorugh all of it, Bam can inmobilize some rankers, and he has resistance negation to fast skip which our wiki have as:

• Fast Skip: A technique he learned from Quant that allows him to temporarily paralyze an opponent's movement by freezing the shinsoo in the environment. He has mastered it to the point where he could paralyze his opponents' attacks as well as their movements with a word.

(Negated Reflejo's resistance to techniques like Fast Skip)

even the most basic reverse flow control already stop everything in its tracks, the higher the shinsu resistance, you will resist the inmoblization even better.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

i still vote for Tsuna, VI+gravity manip+Manto do vongola primo gg I guess...

 

[YungManzi]

And as i said before, Inmoblization bypass a lot of layers to resistance to it. like even at floor 1 ppl has resistance to it, the higher you go the more dense it is. There are 135 floors and a ranker goes thorugh all of it, Bam can inmobilize some rankers, and he has resistance negation to fast skip which our wiki have as:

There are also layers with the rain flame resistance, not in the hundreds though, so that's fair.

What exactly happens to immobilized people?

 

[ImNot4nUser]

There are also layers with the rain flame resistance, not in the hundreds though, so that's fair.

What exactly happens to immobilized people?

they keep inmobilized and so do their attacks, and they cant move at all.

Spoiler: fast skip

Spoiler: reverse flow control

and shinsoo in general induces pain, but even the most weakest resist the pain inducement so it never showcase any relevant sign.

The pain inducement came from a floor two fodder don't resisting a daily floor 20 level of shinsu, theyre around floor 50 currently more or less...

 

[Arceus0x]

if vongola mant nulls it all then this is a stomp.
Close it.
Baam has no chance without his thorns, no wincons.
His ap is 3x yes but he won't even be able to land a hit then.

Overall: no wincons here, stomp.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean? Who said I am restricting the Thorns? I did not put any of this in the OP, indicating that he is free to use

 

[Arceus0x]

ok last try before i yet again call it a stomp

baam could activate the first thorn which would boost him and would cancel out Tsuna's nullification via resistence negation and would powernull him

if this doesn't work then this is a stomp as baam would have nothing else besides ap to win

 

[ImNot4nUser]

if vongola mant nulls it all then this is a stomp.
Close it.
Baam has no chance without his thorns, no wincons.
His ap is 3x yes but he won't even be able to land a hit then.

Overall: no wincons here, stomp.

Manto di Vongola Primo nulls physical and energy attack+petrify them.
But Controlling the matter/shinsu around him wont be nulled. So reverse flow control still inmobilize him

 

[YungManzi]

The pain inducement came from a floor two fodder don't resisting a daily floor 20 level of shinsu, theyre around floor 50 currently more or less...

Ah, so from what I gathered floors aren't exactly a 1 and up layer bypassing situation when it comes to the hindering stuff.

Like shield hero levels almost. Being at a higher level doesn't automatically mean it completely bypasses your resistance, just that it'd stress your resistance more; however, at a certain level you'd reach complete bypassing, which = 1 layer. Yeah, just like Shield Hero level based resistances.
So 100 floors doesn't mean 100 layers... if that's correct.


tbf. If it was like Death Manipulation resistance in Instant Death where 1 level = completely bypassing lower resistance, that'd be pretty crazy tbh. But since it seems to be a rather complicated system, I'll take your word for it and assume it works on Tsuna for the purposes of this battle, so as to not have the whole thread be about it.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Ah, so from what I gathered floors aren't exactly a 1 and up layer bypassing situation when it comes to the hindering stuff.

Like shield hero levels almost. Being at a higher level doesn't automatically mean it completely bypasses your resistance, just that it'd stress your resistance more; however, at a certain level you'd reach complete bypassing, which = 1 layer. Yeah, just like Shield Hero level based resistances.
So 100 floors doesn't mean 100 layers... if that's correct.


tbf. If it was like Death Manipulation resistance in Instant Death where 1 level = completely bypassing lower resistance, that'd be pretty crazy tbh. But since it seems to be a rather complicated system, I'll take your word for it and assume it works on Tsuna for the purposes of this battle, so as to not have the whole thread be about it.

correct more or less, its more of resistance to shinsu, but each floor still is denser than the last, to the point is hard to move thorugh of shinsu of higher floors for some and impossible for others, the higher your affinity the better you can move in shinsu, but even high resistence users like rankers who already passed through all the 135 floors can be inmobilized via reverse flow control. your resistence could be so high that you could move just fine on floors higher than yours. like BoS Bam.

Your affinity define how good your reaction to shinsu is, your affinity could be of a higher floor than the floor you're currently in.
With each floor being more dense...


Summarized 2: Each floor is denser, granting density resistance, each floor is more dense granting resistance to whatever floor you're in. Your affinity is not one per floor, your affinity is unkown but it can be WAY higher than the shinsu of the floor that you're in.

Reverse flow control is forcefully controlling the shinsu around opponents to inmobilize them (aka molecular inmobilization), to the point you can inmobilize ppl that passed all the 135 floors with again, each floor having more density than the last. Rankers also have several degrees of shinsu affinity.

 

[Arceus0x]

Ah finally i got a clear answer. I feel like Baam wins then. Reverse flow is literally made to stop people even those who are resistant to Matter immobilization to an exten (even rankers) while normal regulars without resistence were utterly crushed by it, a simple wall of shinsoo being like an impenetrable steel wall for them.
Basically Baam usually begins with immobilization against opponents who are comparable/weaker to him so through what i understood the best Tsun can do while immobile is gravity manip unless I'm missing sth.
Overall, Baam's immobilization grants em the win

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Bamp

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

BUMP

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

ZA BAMP

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Bump

 

[Nierre]

Baam FRA

 

[ImNot4nUser]

my vote stands, gravity mucho op : (((

WAIT, 4km range and Tuna(hehe) only has hundred meters...
Bam danmaku hmmm. well he could null it with the mant...

I will still vote Tsuna for now...