TSSDK Gerudo Upgrades

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Gerudo is missing a buttload of resistances, and a bit of hax. As noted in Chapter 191:


Name: Gerudo
Species: High Orc
Divine Protection: Great Demon Lord's Blessing
Title: "Barrier Lord (King of Protection)"
Skills: Ultimate Gift
『Gourmet Lord Beelzebub[8]』
ÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇ ...Thought AcceleratioÒâ╗DevourÒâ╗Stomach
Òâ╗IsolateÒâ╗SupplyÒâ╗DemandÒâ╗Corrode
Òâ╗Iron WallÒâ╗Grant DefenseÒâ╗Cover
Òâ╗Space ManipulationÒâ╗Multi-Layered Barrier

Regular Skills... 『Magic Perception』『Uber Sense of Smell』
『Demon Lord's Haki』『Ultra Regenerationn』

Battle Skills... 『Foul Breath』『Full Body Armor』
『Telepathy Control』

Resistances: Pain Immunity, Abnormal Status Immunity,
Natural Elements Resistance, Physical & Mental Attack Resistance,
Hybrid Attack Resistance

Looks like he obtained a downgraded version of my『Gluttonous Lord Beelzebuth』, it also has other additional stuff added in.
Although he is mainly defensive, his offensive power, via his corrosive type attacks, is high as well.
Gerudo also received guidance from Ciel-sensei. Well, most of the abilities were synthesized anyway, if it's Gerudo, he should be able to make proper use of the abilities.
Now that he has ascended, against opponents on the level of the Fallen Angels that recently attacked us, he won't be defeated in a one on one battle. If he focuses only on defending, it would be difficult for even two Fallen Angels to take him down.
He became ever more reliable, I shall continue to depend on him.

From this, Gerudo should have a buttload of resistances via having an Ultimate Skill, some hax such as Regen Negation (Mid-Godly, scaling from Rimuru's Bleezbuth, which ate demons), Breath Attack, Spatial Manipulation.

 

[Elizhaa]

Ultimate Gift is not an Ultimate Skill so it can't scale to it resistances offered.

『Gourmet Lord Beelzebub[8]』 os a downgraded versio of『Gluttonous Lord Beelzebuth』 should Rimuru's 『Gluttonous Lord Beelzebuth』abilties should not scale to it.

Spatial Manipulation is already there. Breath Attack is fine.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

He only has an ultimate gift not a ultimate skill, we only scale resistances to skills.

Gifts are inferior to skills since they are downgraded versions.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Why exactly do we not count them? It says downgraded, it it's not as if it's to a completly fodder degree? Aren't they above Psuedo Ultimate Skills? I believe Apito has one too, yet she has all the resistances.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Degraded, downgraded, point is ultimate gifts are inferior, they aren't ultimate skills, only ultimate skills users have statements of being unaffected by magic.

Apito as an awakened demon lord has an ultimate skill so she scales, before she became an awakened demon lord she only had a pseudo ultimate skill, however i don't think pseudo ultimate should scale either they have never demonstrated the resistances, however i do think their abilities can work on ppl with ultimate skills, maybe, i forgot the evidence of that though.

Regardless it's not stated that ultimate gift=pseudo ultimate skills, nor is it stated which is superior, neither have statements of being unaffected by magic from my knowledge though.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with @Celestial Pegasus's points.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yes, they don't have statements saying they aren't affected by magic, but at the same time nothing states that they were effected. I haven't seen any lesser skills working on ultimate gift's, so I don't understand why it isn't counted for a resistance.

 

[NeoSuperior]

The issue is that the burden of proof for Ultimate Gifts having the the same resistances included as Ultimate Skills is on us. Whenever the situation is "maybe it scales, maybe it doesn't", then on this site the default is "it doesn't", unfortunately. Previously there were CRTs that were based on even more concrete "implications" than this one, yet they were still rejected.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I honestly believe they should scale. They are clearly above Unique Skills, and while it is true, the difference between US skills is made clear by Leon, they're all under the "ultimate" class. I believe they should scale.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

Again, Ultimate Gifts =/= Ultimate Skills. Ultimate Gifts are still weaker so there is no scaling, also.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

But they're within the same class. They are downgraded, yeah, but I don't believe it's to the level where they shouldn't gain these resistances. Again, I haven't been shown much evidence of lower abilities working on UG users, or P-US users.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

They aren't in the same class, they are inferior abilities when compared to ultimate skills, nothing proves they have comparable resistances to abilities scaling to ultimate skills which surpass their own.

You need proof that the weaker ability scales to the stronger one.

 

[NeoSuperior]

The issue is: Where do you draw the line?

I mean you can't "downgrade" the fact of being "released from the laws of the world". You are either released from them or not.

Guy's plan of gathering a few Ultimate Skill users for his side needed to have some sort of basis for him to be sure he could take on Rudra's various "mass-produced" Pseudo-Ultimate Skill Users. He was aiming for Quality against Quantity. If the only difference was a "slight downgrade in potency output" then I don't think Guy would have shown the confidence he did from just having a few true Ultimate Skill users on his side. Rather, he was actually confident in WINNING the war, until Yuuki came along and basically flipped the table with Velda.

It seems in the LN were Rudra seems to be young and appearently at his peak, and (from what I heard) Yuuki having rejected the contract from Velda, we might actually end up seeing the conflict between Demon Lords and Eastern Empire as intented by Guy and Rudra this time around. Not that it matters for the WN version since we treat WN and LN plot points completely seperately.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Well for one, Apito's Psuedo-US worked on Dino, and he has an US.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The issue again is the vagueness of the WN due to lack of explanations.

Again we are left to decide where exactly to draw these lines, which we shouldn't have to do in the first place.

Seriously, which is why i think we shouldn't scale cause it's vague as hell.

I already said above i faintly remember pseudo us working on us, but we don't know if pseudo us=ug or which is superior and even if we have evidence of them working on us, doesn't necessarily mean they also have all the resistances.

Again it's too vague.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Well for one, Apito's Psuedo-US worked on Dino, and he has an US.

That only means that Pseudo-US's offensive abilities are able to get past the resistances of Ultimate Skills. That is completely unrelated to the question of whether or not Pseudo-US and/or Ultimate Gifts have the same resistances as Ultimate Skills.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with Celestial Pegasus's points. The scaling of Ultimate Gifts to Ultimate Skills is way too vague.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Well, again, is there any proof of them working on them from lower skills?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well the burden of proof would be on you to prove the opposite, that lower abilities don't work on them.

We basically are saying the evidence isn't there to suggest it, so you have to show that the evidence is there, we don't have to prove anything since you're are the one who is bringing it up.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Alright, I'll look.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean the fact that even after being drained from fighting Diablo her sword could pierce an arc demon, and her inferno flame could harm unnamed Diablo who fodderizes arc demons, means she was very strong at her peak.

Wrong thread to post this on though, should be on the discussion thread.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

^

 

[NeoSuperior]

Oops posted it on the wrong thread by mistake. My apologies.