!!TROS SPOILERS!! Anakin (ROTS) vs Ben Solo (TROS)

[Riptide240]

How would Ben Solo at the height of his power do against his grandfather just before his fall to the dark side?


This is Jedi Ben and Anakin with their original blue lightsabers.

I feel like they went out of their way to show us just how powerful he is in this movie, and I was here for all of it, so with this new amount of feats (including the comics we see of his fall to the dark side), how does he compare to his former idol?

Anakin:

Ben:

Inconclusive:

 

[Brotein1]

Anakin via vastly better training, experience fighting a less one-sided war and higher force potential. Ben would put up a surprisingly good fight for a post-Order 66 Jedi tho, he is underrated. But I'd say Anakin still wins 8/10 times at least.

 

[Riptide240]

To be fair, just playing devil's advocate since everyone tends to have an undertandable Anakin bias, I do think Ben's training is a bit underrated. Anakin was trained formally by the Jedi Order, but Ben was trained by Luke Skywalker for his entire adolesence, and then had more extensive training under Snoke. Now that we know Palpatine was behind Snoke's creation and purpose (to train Ben into a worthy Sith), plus the details of his turn to the dark side, I do think Ben could actually give Anakin a run for his money.

Not only does he completely outclass 3 of his Jedi peers without moving a muscle, his raw power was enough to visibly scare and shake Luke into instictively trying to kill him. Plus, even though I would agree that Anakin has great experience with the Clone Wars, Ben actually managed to kill his far superior master with sheer cunning and rule the First Order for a year terrorizing and oppressing the galaxy, which seems to have made him very skilled and powerful. It's worth an honorable mention that he completely destroyed the Knights of Ren with his lightsaber no problem, and completely overpowers Rey for a majority of the movie.

 

[Brotein1]

It's true that Ben has decent experience as a general and battlefield commander himself but we just haven't seen anything to suggest he came up against anything as arduous as some of the stuff Anakin faced during the Clone Wars, or that it was as bloody and difficult a conflict as that one proved to be for the Jedi (the First Order seemed to decimate the New Republic pretty handily throughout the war thanks to superior military power, and Ren didn't appear to have any Jedi or force sensitives to deal with so he would've run largely unopposed on the battlefield).

Plus with the omission of Legends stuff we don't really know how effective Luke was at reimplementing former Jedi teachings etc - you have to imagine he didn't quite restore it to the same heights as the training regimen during the Republic. A lot of Jedi knowledge and tuition procedures were lost, and Luke's training was pretty brief and unorthodox in its own right so he wasn't exactly the person to carry it forward-- No doubt he was probably training a very capable generation of Jedi, they just would've been different and relied a lot more on their spiritual connection to the Force than lightsaber forms and whatnot. Anakin, though, grew up with generations of Jedi teachings and practices being burned into his brain, and Lucas noted it was always his intent to depict the Jedi way of combat during the height of the Republic as more elegant and refined than anything post-Empire era. It just seems to me like he would hold the advantage there.

All in all though this could be a pretty good fight, we just need more feats for Ben. He lived in an era where there was pretty much no one (that we know of) to challenge him, so his most impressive showings are just fights with Rey and dominating lower level combatants - the only other points of reference are Snoke and Palpatine, who both outclassed him handily in raw power. There needs to be more expanded material featuring him for him to have a shot.

 

[Riptide240]

We know Luke was powerful and skilled enough to mess up Snoke, who was stupidly powerful in his own right. I'm sure he didn't build an exact replica of the old Jedi Order, but that doesn't mean it wasn't as good or even better. Luke had the ancient Jedi texts, the foundational guidance of Obi-Wan and Yoda, and we know he's good at learning the Jedi ways since he self-taught to the point where he built his own lightsaber, mastered its use, and could face and defeat Vader.

All that in mind, I wouldn't sleep on Ben; he was specifically groomed by the Sith Eternal and Palpatine himself to be a worthy and powerful Sith, and he passed every test to the point where Palpatine notes how well Snoke trained him. All the war exeprience for both of them is great, but I'm not sure how much that actually counts for in a 1v1 with another Jedi. Anakin has always been far more aggressive in his style, but if anyone does aggression well, it's Kylo/Ben. So I don't think it would come down to better form, but whose attacks are more clever and well-placed. Anakin is far from dumb, but he's not known for his cunning and patience as a Jedi, which is exactly how Kylo killed Snoke. Plus, in my honest opinion, Kylo has shown some of the best and most battle effective lightsaber fighting choreography in the whole franchise from the end of TLJ to TROS. Those crossguards are lethal lol

Honestly I could see this going either way, but we do need more light shed on what he's capable of.

 

[Brotein1]

I've always thought Vader losing to Luke had more to do with the psychological factors at work than Luke's skill level surpassing him. Neither were actually trying to kill the other, but once Luke started tapping into the dark side and striking with more ferocity Vader crumbled; there was never a point in time where he went all-out with intent to kill against his son. Luke himself was probably as good a lightsaber duelist as the Order's best, but I'm not sure he would've been as effective at passing that knowledge on as their battlemaster would, is all.

Like I said, I think Ben is underrated a lot and there are times when I've been the devil's advocate backing him in these debates haha, but against an Anakin who's flat-out superior to Dooku I just see him taking the L more often than not. As impressive as he is Luke proved he could avoid all his strikes pretty effortlessly even if it was just a projection, that plus him having difficulty with Snoke's guards call into question how well he'd do against a highly trained lightsaber duelist imo. I mentioned Anakin's experience in the Clone Wars mainly because it brought him into conflict with a lot of master lightsaber combatants, like a lot. Lightsabers were so rare by the sequel trilogy timeline that Ben couldn't have encountered many, if any at all - going by how he fared against Rey and Finn in TFA it didn't seem like he had a lot of experience fighting other lightsaber wielders.

Both guys are quite practical and cunning but also prone to letting their negative emotions get the better of them and compromise their thinking, though that might be less of an issue for a post-redemption Ben than it is an Anakin on the verge of his collapse. I guess if he took advantage of that it might improve his odds, but I don't think it'd make a difference in the end.

Even though I see Anakin winning the majority I do think it'd be hard-fought every time. Going by statements about Ben and his time as Kylo he should be on a pretty high level, Anakin just has soooo many more appearances to work with and fights to gauge his ability off of that he can't really compete. Maybe in another few years after we get a few comic books or animated shows set in the sequel trilogy era now that it's over lol

 

[Riptide240]

Yeah, I can get behind that. As far as Luke evading all of his attacks, it's fair to point out that he was extremely enraged and clouded by his trauma with Luke, and the elite guards...yeah i'm not sure what happened with that. Rise of Skywalker Ren would slapped all of them no problem lol.

As far as Rey in TFA, that wasn't due to lack of experience so much as him being super wounded (wookie bowcasters are strong) and unbalanced after killing his dad. If anything, he should be amazing with a lightsaber since he learned the ropes with a bunch of other Jedi for years from Luke himself before they all died, and he was the top student by a country mile. He even demolished three of them without ever touching his lightsaber, and he completely recked Rey in their many duels throughout TROS

Other than that, yeah I could see Anakin edging it out over him. I"d give it a 6 or 7/10 since Ben really has shown some insane power and skill that hasn't really been seen before. Anakin is more refined and formally trained but Ben seems more practical and brutal, like someone who isn't afraid to bit or pull hair or go for a nut shot in a fight lol

 

[XXJellyXx]

I like Ben Solo, but I know that Anakin would still beat out Solo FRA. I would think that the fight would start out with Ben edging on him with saber combat, then eventually perhaps Anakin gets enraged or agitated, then wipes out Ben Solo.

Anakin is the chosen one, Ren is somewhere on Ahsoka level, and Anakin trained Ahsoka.

 

[Riptide240]

While I hear what you're saying, Anakin being the Chosen One doesn't make him the automatic winner of any fight, which is how a lot of people use that title. It just means he'd be the one to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith, which he did. He has incredibly high force potential, true...but he never truly reached it. That's just the facts. Do I think Anakin could edge out Ben? Sure, but I honestly think it would be a tough battle at least. Ben is constantly stated to be stupidly powerful and skilled in just about every area there is. He's intentionally meant to be the sequel trilogy's parallel to Anakin, and I think by the time TROS came around, he'd be able to take Anakin in a fight pretty squarely. Luke and Ben are two of the only people who I think could, honestly (generally speaking), and they're both his descendants lol

 

[Brotein1]

I think Ben could be a really good fight for Maul. Talk about clash of styles lol