Trigun Needs Help...

[Starter_Pack]

I have some major issues with the tiering of Trigun.

First off, there are the City level tierings for every character of the verse. As of this moment from when I looked at the profiles, there are absolutely no justifications for any of it, aside from characters like Wolfwood being comparable to Vash, which does not help given this context. This also applies to the unexplained Town level tiering for Wolfwood, since he's the only one with this rating, as well as the Country level tiering for both Vash and Knives.

Then there's the Angel Arm feat which justifies Multi-Continent level. Considering the image within the link is broken, I'm not sure if the calc is applicable. At the very least, I'd like to see this recalculated by one of our trusty Calc Group members, to have the most accurate result possible.

And then there's Planet level. All things considered the explanation for this is dumb, as I literally just had Shadow Fight downgraded for this exact reason. According to the explanation, it states, "Fully charged Angel Arm was stated to "level the planet" and Knives could "morph an entire planet." While Knives may hold something there, this sounds more like another Multi-Continent level statement.

It would honestly be really helpful if someone knowledgeable on Trigun was here to help, but considering everyone listed on the verse page is currently inactive, I'm not sure what can be done here. Any suggestions would be great!

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Trigun really does need help going by these profiles.

The Multi-Continent level feat link works for me but I don't know if the calc is right or not. The Country level seems to come from Knives Millions durability which links to another off sight calc. However on Vash the Stampede's profile, it says he can harm someone who doesn't even have a page. At least Country level (Damaged Legato)

They don't seem to have calcs for their speed either. Also Livio the Double Fang's durability literally says City level (Him and Wolfwood regenerated from being ripped into hundreds of pieces in under a minute). That isn't a durability feat, that's a Regenerationn feat.

Anyway, unless someone is willing to go through the series and fix up the profiles or someone already knowledgeable shows up, the profiles might half to be deleted.

 

[Antvasima]

I would also greatly appreciate help with this.

 

[Antvasima]

If you find any scans with feats to scale from, feel free to ask our calc group members for help.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If nobody comes with any feats, I could read through the manga, I don't got much going on right now anyway. However, I don't know a good site with accurate English translations. Anybody know any good manga reading sites?.

 

[Antvasima]

See here: https://www.techworm.net/2019/12/best-***********-alternatives-read-online.html

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ok so I think I found the City level feat but am I allowed to upload the scan directly to the wiki or not?.

 

[Antvasima]

You are allowed to upload separate scans, just not entire chapters at once.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So the city level seems to come from the exact start of the manga where it states July City was completely destroyed and we see a massive crater. Vash is shown standing in the destroyed remains. The attack looks like it was one large blast.



It is later stated Vash can cause widespread destruction as well which appears to be from this feat. The size of the city is unknown so it would be baseline. I'll look more into it but this is likely where city level comes from but no one put a description.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It would be much better if we get some sort of calculation though, even if it is just an estimation.

 

[DMUA]

How big is the actual city

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@DUMA

That's just it, they don't say. They just show us the aftermath of the attack/destruction. Saying that it was one of the 7 major cities.

I don't know what an average city size would be.

 

[DMUA]

It's probably not average if it's a major city

You could probably use an upper end metropolitan area for reference

... Then again, this is a desert planet, so we might want to judge based off what the city itself looks like

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'll keep reading and see if they show another city so we could likely get a depiction of what there cities look like.

 

[DMUA]

Hmm

Well, until further elaboration, one idea is to use Mexico City as reference, which is 1484.06 Square Kilometers, the square root of that being 38.523499321842 KM

It seems like the whole thing was wiped clean and such a value should be used for diameter, and then one would scale that to the length to get the overall size and apply destruction values accordingly, but burn that bridge when I get to it

 

[Antvasima]

@DMUA

Thank you for helping out. Feel free to write an estimated blog calculation if you wish.

 

[DMUA]

I'm going to wait until Griffin gets back with more details before I do anything

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ok. So for starters I'd like to point something out. Trigun had 3 volumes but was discontinued but later started up again under the name Trigun Maximum which has 14 volumes and takes place 2 years after Trigun. I've only read Trigun. So what I'm talking about will just be that ok.

So far, Base Vash doesn't have any real feats AP/Durability wise since no one hit him. The City level rating doesn't come from July city being destroyed because Vash destroyed it with his "Angel Arm" which is said by Knives who unlocks the power again and Vash's arm transforms again, and fires the same attack which does this.





So there is no need to calc July City's destruction because we just need to calc the moon feat since they were the same attack. It's just July wasn't hit like the moon. The beam shaved July City off the map, this time the blast exploded.

All in all. Base Vash doesn't scale to this or July City being destroyed. I suggest this feat be calced so we can have it on the wiki and properly get it accepted. As for the profiles, I'll read Trigun Maximum when I get the chance to make sure there are feats to scale his base form to, maybe there are some good feats but as of now we should get this calced.

@DMUA

Do you think you can calc the moon scaring feat?.

 

[DMUA]

it already has a calc on Naruto Forums, which was fine last I checked

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Your talking about this one?.

http://web.archive.org/web/20170315.../xfa-blog-entry/trigun-vashs-angel-arm.19068/

They got Multi-Continent level.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

In the OP Starter Pack states the image in the calc is broken (which it is for me as well). I'll add the image of the feat in the AP description next to the link so people can visually see the feat.

@DUMA

Is that calc correct for the moon feat?.

I'll start reading Trigun Maximum and see if I find other feats.

 

[DMUA]

yes

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you both for helping out.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

No problem.

Found this statement early in Trigun Maximum. Vash states he could possibly "Razed the Earth" with his gun (Angel Arm). This supports it being at Multi-Continent level and not being an outlier.

 

[DMUA]

I remember it being said that the planet Trigun is on may be much larger than earth but that never went anywhere so

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here?

 

[Starter_Pack]

For now, let Griffin continue going through the manga to see where the cast's AP should source from. I know the forum move is imminent, but unfortunately, this shouldn't be rushed for worries of getting things wrong and having to fix them again later.

Also, LordGriffin, since you seem to be a very knowledgeable member on Trigun, and since everyone's listed on the Trigu page is currently inactive for over a year, I would appreciate if you would add yourself as a supporter of the verse, so people know who to seek out for help with this series. Thank you.

 

[Schnee_One]

The 5B justification was covered here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1357631?useskin=oasis I believe

While I'm not the best at calcing I'm decently knowledgeable on abilities in the verse. So I can help there.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Starter Pack.

Please write yourself down as a supporter of the verse LordGriffin1000.

 

[Antvasima]

@Schnee

Thanks for helping out.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I've put my name under the supporters list.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Regenerationn

Vash's regen is currently Low-Mid without any source. This regen is listed as...

"The ability to regenerate lost limbs, and even from severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage."

This doesn't make any sense. Vash's body literally has lots of scars on it which is shown in both Trigun and Trigun Maximum. Just look at the image above that I posted when Vash states he could raze the earth, you can see the scars on his body. His are is just a prostetic/fake so he did not regenerate that.

So far the only wounds he's healed fast are bullet wounds which would be more around Low.

"Merely an accelerated healing ability for normal wounds, allowing the character to heal wounds that would normally take days, weeks, or even months much more quickly, sometimes even in just seconds. For machines and vehicles, this would just be regenerating basic exterior damage."

I suggest Low be his Regenerationn. He might have higher Regenerationn when powered up or something but right now, Low Regenerationn is his limit in base.

Speed
Base Vash is currently rated at Hypersonic without any calc. Vash can easily dodge bullets with no difficulty and move faster than the eye can see so Subsonic at bare minimum. I've found some speed feats from him in Trigun Maximum that could help get a calc on his base.

Vash dodges sub machine gun rounds at close range.


Vash escapes an grenade explosion at close range.


There are also a few speed feats on his profile under "Feats" which I'm surprised no one has tried to calc. Some of them can't be though.

Anyway, In regards to his AP and Durability, I'm still reading but so far base Vash has not done anything impressive. He can be shoot and has been shot multiple times by normal guns. Hell, in Trigun Maximum they made his new gear bullet proof which would be stupid if he was city level. Unless someone is going to argue the everyone and their mother are packing City Level weapons or that all these moments of him dodging bullets and the two of him getting shot are for show and outliers the Base Vash should be unknown.

I may not be finished the Trigun Maximum but base Vash being City level just doesn't make any sense. Maybe he gets a power up but right know he should be rated at Unknow in base.

Note: I'd like to apologise for not being faster, I don't always have access to the internet so I'm doing as much as I can with the time I'm given.

 

[DMUA]

Dodging an explosion is usually hypersonic (Detonation velocity is about Mach 22) but I'm not really sure how far Vash moved there.

 

[Antvasima]

LordGriffin1000 seems to make sense to me. Thank you for helping out.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@DMUA

What about this statement from Legato in Trigun. Legato says that if he felt like it, he could kill the 50 people within 50 meters in 0.2 seconds. Is that impressive speed?.

 

[DMUA]

They're referring to their bare hands and not any ranged weapon, right?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So far Legato has not shown any long ranged attacks or weapons. He Killed three guys in a bar close up by making them kill themselves (He seems to have Telekinesis). He broke a mans bones with the same attack but the guy was right next to him.

It seems Legato needs to be right next to someone to use this ability and it takes time for the person to die. So I think it's safe to assume he wasn't talking about that ability.