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Triforce Mega Thread(Teir,Scaling and Realm Sizes)

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Oblivion_Lightning

Oblivion_Lightning

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This is a thread for revising a bunch of Triforce stuff so buckle down.

1. 3-A Triforce Returns ———————————————————————— Yep let's address the elephant in the room.This thread has new information and new quotes to support the upgrade.I discussed this with (Warren Valion,Triforce Power,Konaguna,Giver of Peace and Neon Battle Bind)all of whom believe that a 3-A upgrade is necessary.So let's begin...

The Definition Of "Cosmos"

-The word "Cosmos" by definition means Universe undoubtedly

Definitions:

•https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmos

•https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/us/amp/english/cosmos

•https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.collinsdictionary.com/us/amp/english/cosmos

-You can look at any definition of Cosmos and it will tell you that by definition it means Universe.Now moving on....

Ganon's Wish and the Sacred Realm is a Universe

-Once Ganondorf killed his allies in the Sacred Realm he claimed the Triforce and made his wish.His wish was to conquer the Sacred Realm and to ultimately rule it.

Ganondorf's wish quoted and explained: •https://share.icloud.com/photos/0gDwudgqnWVXEVhlqxDd12txg

-In response the Triforce warped the Sacred Realm into Ganondorf's image making it the Dark World.Ganondorf's wish to conquer the Sacred Realm warped it into the Dark World.

The Size Of The Sacred Realm

-The size of the Sacred Realm is the main problem as it's currently only a 4-B Realm containing 1 star,but now thanks to some archived text in game it gives us a bit more context.That context is that the Sacred Realm is literally it's own Universe.

The Quote: •https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Q03RCo3XfDWEtBhG7XV_eLlg

-This quote is almost identical to the quote that the "essence of the Triforce"says above explaining Ganondorf's wish.The only difference is the word "cosmos" and "world" which gives us more context into the size of the Realm.

(1)"Ganon's wish was to conquer the world.That wish changed the golden land into The Dark World"

(2)"The Triforce created this World to fulfill Ganon's wish.What is Ganon's Wish you ask? It is to rule the entire cosmos!"

-Since the Triforce warped what Ganondorf wanted to conquer as stated in the 1st quote which it did as the Triforce completely warped the Sacred Realm,the same would apply here which means the Triforce warped all of the cosmos as it's what Ganondorf wanted to rule.This means the Triforce has the power to completely warp the Cosmos which is a Universe as shown by several definitions.The word Cosmos and Golden Land are interchangeable here as they're both described as what Ganondorf wants to conquer and rule and as a result he uses the Triforce and wishes to conquer The Cosmos/The Sacred Realm which warps them to Ganondorf's whim which allows him to rule the realm.Not to mention the Triforce sustains the Sacred Realm/The Cosmos which is a Universe feat in its self.

Visual Model and info if needed:https://share.icloud.com/photos/0_of9ehJqNNkCOGFpGHX8rfCg


Note

-I'm not implying that ruling the Cosmos would equate to teir at all.What I'm implying is that Ganondorf wishes to rule the Sacred Realm/The Cosmos and in response the Triforce warped them to Ganon's will to become the Dark World.This means the Triforce can warp the Sacred Realm which is of Universe size as the Sacred Realm is the entire Cosmos/A separate Universe as shown above.

-I would also like to bring up a good point Warren Valion made:

I think it is ridiculous to believe that the Golden Goddess are 2-C for creating universal-sized Space-Time continuums like the Light World, and not have the Triforce, which was able to change the entirety of the Sacred Realm into the Dark World not be at least 3-A.

The Triforce is 3-A, and to say otherwise is just downplay in my opinion.''

Scaling

-The Triforce

-Composite Link(All 4-B Links)

-Ganondorf

-All Full Triforce users in Hyrule Warriors

Thank you for reading all the way through :) Please keep all posts especially related to the controversial 3-A Triforce productive and related to the actual topic.If you support,disagree or are neutral just remain respectful so we can prevent this topic from becoming more controversial


2.The Full Triforce Empowering Ganon Revision ——————————————————————

Credit to Warren for bringing this topic up and I belive it needs to be discussed but for now I'm mainly neutral on it


Can someone explain to me why we consider Ganondorf in ALttP to be empowered by the full Triforce?


Like, don't get me wrong, he definitely had the Triforce, I am not doubting that - it is visually shown to us after all.

But why do we assume that Ganondorf absorbed the entire Triforce into his body, augmenting his powers, like he does with the Triforce of Power in all the other games? Where's the proof of this?

In ALttP, when Ganon is destroyed, Link has to enter a backroom. In the room, there is an alter with an opening, and within the alter is the Triforce. Showing that Triforce isn't in Ganondorf's body, but in a room separated from his and Link's positioning at the time.

Now you might say that they wouldn't be able to show it coming out of the Ganon's body because of hardware limitations. I counter this point by bringing up the fact that the orignal Legend of Zelda for the NES, we actually see Ganon turn into a puff of red mist, and guess what? The Triforce of Power was mixed in with the left over remains of Ganon - showing that Ganon had it absorbed into his body.

So if the original showed the Triforce being a remain of Ganondorf's body when he was destroyed, then why didn't ALttP do that? My logic is that Ganon didn't absorb the full power of the Triforce within himself, but that he held onto it and left the Triforce in a secret room.

Not to mention, if Ganon really did have the full Triforce boosting his strengths, how could Link ever compete with that without a piece of the Triforce? It doesn't make any sense when taking into account the scaling either.


So ultimately, what I am getting at is that us saying that Ganondorf absorbed and was empowered by the full Triforce in ALttP is inaccurate. Unless someone has proof or something, that is.

So that concludes this Megathread.I hope that we can have a civil on topic discussion despite the controversial topic.PLEASE LETS NOT MAKE THINGS NEGATIVE AND GO DOWN HILL so I guess debate away!!! :)
 
I'm just going to lure here. I won't really debate, but I will intervene if someone says something wrong or different from canon.
 
Also, one thing, I'd disagreee with the ALTTP Ganon fight feat.

It should be some kind of PIS or Outlier, TF appearing in the back room is probably there just to trigger the ending scene like in the previous two installments
 
Noice this looks good I agree of course with 3-A there's so much proof for it at this point.I'm open minded on the Ganon stuff so I'll see where that goes but IMO the 1st and 2nd threads for the 3-A Triforce should have been enough.That's what I belive at least
 
Using Ganondorf's wish to rule, and the statement that something is a "cosmos" (and ******* dictionary definitions), and an unsourced screenshot from some book or magazine to justify a jump from 4-B to 3-A is horrendous.
 
Like, this is nothing but someone's own headcanon. There's 0 credible sourcing here. And trying to pass fighting full Triforce Ganon as not an outlier is laughable.
 
@Matthew dude did you read what Oblivion said? He specifically states to not make the thread agressive and hostile and your obviously ignoring this fact please be more civilized.

The quote is in game from a tree in the Dark World ingame so it is indeed legitimate.You honestly need to provide more proof than saying it's laughable and a headcanon.Honestly the thread isn't horrendous at all and you haven't proved so
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Using Ganondorf's wish to rule, and the statement that something is a "cosmos" (and ******* dictionary definitions), and an unsourced screenshot from some book or magazine to justify a jump from 4-B to 3-A is horrendous.
Click to expand...
Claiming that using definitions is a weak point in this thread weakens your point more than helps it,as definitions are the very foundation of interpreting and understanding language.Every definition for Cosmos equates to Universe it's just a basic fact.(I just saw a revision thread using the word Cosmos as reasons for a universal upgrade)

Ganon wished to conquer both the Sacred Realm/The Cosmos Cosmos and the Sacred Realm are interchangeable as it was Ganon's wish to rule both and in response to Ganon's wish the Triforce warped the Sacred Realm/The Cosmos the things Ganondorf wanted to rule which would be a Universe as Cosmos=Universe.

You also need to address the point Warren made which I belive is very legitimate and overall important.

Also Neon is right I would prefer if you did not call anything horrendous or laughable as it just makes things worse and more controversial
 
^I actually think the Japanese and English versions support the upgrade if anything tho

Japanese:What is Ganondorf's wish, you say? To be King of this world of course. He can do it with magical energy of the Dark World, can't he?

English:Ganon's wish was to to rule the entire Cosmos

The quotes coincide with each other and are practically the same but instead of saying world it states Cosmos.

This is convenient in this situation as the quote gives us insight on the size of the Sacred Realm as "world" is unknown in size.But now that we have the quote refering to Cosmos we can confirm the Sacred Realm is a Universe.I GREATLY disagree with disregarding the English quote as it's ignoring established lore by the game


Oh and I also hope that Ganon being empowered by the Triforce is brought forth and discussed not just the 3-A Triforce,but one thing at a time
 
I wouldn't call it a mistranslation though.It's in both versions of the SNES and Gameboy editions so it's definitely legitimate and the quotes aren't not to far apart other than the description of the actual size of the Realm.

Japanese:World(Unkown Size)

English:Cosmos(Universe in Size)

Still neutral on that Ganon stuff though
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
The quotes coincide with each other and are practically the same but instead of saying world it states Cosmos.
This is convenient in this situation as the quote gives us insight on the size of the Sacred Realm as "world" is unknown in size.But now that we have the quote refering to Cosmos we can confirm the Sacred Realm is a Universe.I GREATLY disagree with disregarding the English quote as it's ignoring established lore by the game
Click to expand...
How is disregarding a mistranslation ignoring established lore? You can't use a english translation to justify something from the orignal japanese version. The logic of "The original text states world which is unknown in size, but the english translation uses cosmos instead of world so that means we can use that in conjunction with the orignal to prove that world in this case means cosmos" doesn't hold up, you can't mix and match different translations like that to try and upgrade stuff.
 
I'm sure that we should use both interpretations as they're both from a canon source.Unless absolutely proven to be a mistranslation from the Japanese text to English text and that the Japanese text is what's intended which I'm quite sure it's not since it's in both the SNES version and Gameboy version in English,if there's a mistranslation they would have changed it between version of the English games.Im still in support for 3-A upgrade in general.
 
Neon Battle Bind said:
I'm sure that we should use both interpretations as they're both from a canon source.Unless absolutely proven to be a mistranslation from the Japanese text to English text and that the Japanese text is what's intended which I'm quite sure it's not since it's in both the SNES version and Gameboy version in English,if there's a mistranslation they would have changed it between version of the English games.Im still in support for 3-A upgrade in general.
Click to expand...
I was gonna bring this up actually.While the translations are both different from the versions they both state essentially the same thing except World is replaced with Cosmos.

Cosmos by definition means Universe so by going by the English interpretation like Neon stated the quote would have been changed in the GBA version.This means the English interpretation is what is intended by the developers as it was not altered or changed and besides the quotes are essentially saying the same thing.We can not assume that it is a mistranslation just because the texts are worded differently unless actually proven by the developers
 
Just how many threads with the same stuff are going to be made before we may decide to have a rule against it?
 
Yeah there's reused info but this info is being brought into a different context and I'm starting to think to finally solve this 3-A Triforce debacle is to just ask who supports it and who doesn't with several links to the different threads.
 
Eficiente said:
Just how many threads with the same stuff are going to be made before we may decide to have a rule against it?
Click to expand...
About as much threads as questioning the legitimacy of 4-B solar system FF7
 
Eficiente said:
Just how many threads with the same stuff are going to be made before we may decide to have a rule against it?
Click to expand...
Rules never stopped shit like Universal DMC or FTL Star Level Naruto, so they ain't stopping this.

Besides the guy that was the core reason for rejection last time now agrees so there goes
 
Eficiente said:
Just how many threads with the same stuff are going to be made before we may decide to have a rule against it?
Click to expand...
Half of the threads actually brought up new stuff that wasn't present in other ones.
 
I definitely agree. I mean personally I'm for Low 2-C Triforce but that's neither here nor there, Link VS. Dante and Kratos let's go boiiiiiis
 
Also the GG created the Light World a Universe in it's self and the fact that the Triforce warped the Dark world to copy the Light World says something to me.Combine that with the fact that Ganon's wish to rule the Cosmos/Sacred Realm(A Universe) and warped it to become the Dark World and the fact that the Triforce also literally sustains the Sacred Realm is honestly BEYOND enough proof.
 
Soul-of-Landale said:
I like that we're all sleeping on the Lorule triforce and its universal collapse stuff
Click to expand...
I did believe there're many reasons for the 3-A Triforce and there should be an upgrade but that's not one of them.Lorule's Triforce was slowly over time deteriorating Lorule possibly the Kingdom or World I'm not really sure but since it was an over time process it cannot be equated to AP
 
I'm gonna agree with Kona and Warren based on the Ganon stuff.

It makes no sense that Link with no peices can take on Ganon with all off them.Ganon must have left the Triforce in that special little chamber.We also can't really assume that the Triforce came from Ganon's body.
 
Nah, he had the triforce, it appeared in the chamber only for it to trigger the endscene, which had a different angle, it had to switch. Pluse he was abusing his Low-Godly regen, which is only given to him by the TOP, so that's another proof he had it.

Just consider it PIS and be done with it
 
Konaguna said:
Pluse he was abusing his Low-Godly regen, which is only given to him by the TOP, so that's another proof he had it
Click to expand...
The site doesn't treat the ToP as granting Ganon his regen but rather he just naturally had it (Which is why composite Link was denied that level of regen).
 
no one has actually debunked it. Link never dies with the ToP anyway, and as I've said before, Ganon without ToP has pathetic regen. It's obvious that it comes from the ToP.
 
Just going to be on the sidelines here, but 3-A Triforce has been discussed so many times and none of the things brought up are new at all.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Just going to be on the sidelines here, but 3-A Triforce has been discussed so many times and none of the things brought up are new at all.
Click to expand...
-The main person against the 3-A Upgrades are now siding with it so I think we might as well bring it up do to the fact there's no opposition except Matthew.It's to the point that there's no more counter to the actual supportive claims

-We're also going over Ganon being in possession of the Full Triforce as well.
 
Dust Collector said ruling the Cosmos is a mistranslation and the source he linked also proves it. And simply ruling the world doesn't automatically mean you can oneshot the world. Matt and Azzy are both very busy people and have refuted this countless times. There isn't quite enough proof of Sacred Realm being universe sized, and it was also mentioned on another thread that Complete Triforce users were going to be downgraded from 4-B to at least High 4-C.

And actually, each of the three timelines contains, all the worlds/realms, ect. Light World, Sacred Realm, Termina, the various Oracle game places, ect are all contained inside a single timeline. Though the Golden Goddesses are still 2-C because it's implied they merged the three timelines into one prior to the events of Breath of the Wild. But still, there isn't enough proof for anyone being 3-A.
 
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