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Transformers General Discussion

The first two are out of context.

The moment the fight begins, Lockdown lands on top of Optimus, grabs him and throws his face into a wall.
After he was thrown to the ground from debris.

Next, they trade blows, Optimus loses his sword and is knocked to the ground.
Because Lockdown shoots his sword out of his hand. Right after getting knocked down, there's an offscreen fight in between in which Lockdown has inbuilt weapons and Optimus has a shield.

The rest is back and forth, as you say.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
There are some spots where bee just overpowers prime, such him knocking him down.

I'm not sure about that
Click to expand...
There is only one instance of that. The others are just him attacking Optimus, which doesn't do much to OP. OP ragdolled BB more, and the results were much more devastating. BB lost his Doors, and an entire arm after OP's beatdown.

Either way, I mean clearly the intent of the scene is that Optimus would have killed BB if BB didn't speak at the right moment.
 
Only bumblebee gets certainly stronger, I still don't think Optimus progressively stronger as the films progress
 
They’re close to each other in strength, it’s not like Lockdown was stomping Prime. But he was pretty clearly overpowering him, and he directly did so by succeeding in stabbing Prime despite him trying to resist. It’s a >= situation as opposed to >>.
 
To be fair, Megatron got upgraded and didn't get stronger through whatever methods, so I didn't count him, I agree with barry
 
I mean, new equipment doesn’t mean he’s stronger and the jetwing would be a different stat than his base. RotF and DotM don’t really have any reason to be separated.
 
That still doesn't make him deserve new keys. The current one is fine: Low 7-C, higher with Jetfire's parts or Flight Tech
 
I mean, Sentinel has better showing against Optimus anyway, but Lockdown's face gun is probably way above SP
 
So what is the scaling chain as of now?

For me it's: TLK Megatron > Sentinel > Lockdown > AOE/TLK Bumblebee | Stinger > Optimus
 
@Emirp sumitpo
Speaking of the ROTF game, in the console version, Megatron travel speed is probably MFTL as in the Autobot campaign, a short time after the final battle with The Fallen is over, Autobots gather in the NEST base, Optimus says that Megatron is probably in another galaxy by now.

Strength-wise, Megatron could effortlessly throw tanks with one arm and crush them under his foot.
 
The key word is "probably". The rotf games are too similar to the movie counterparts to justify new keys.

That's class 100, lower than class M
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
The key word is "probably". The rotf games are too similar to the movie counterparts to justify new keys.

That's class 100, lower than class M
Click to expand...
Well, Optimus, who has some knowledge of the Cybertronian Tech and Megatron himself, thinks such a feat is plausible.

It could still be added as "likely MFTL" (if a key was made that is).
 
Except, the rotf game aren't that different from the movie counterparts, it seems to only apply for the rotf game, such a statement was never said in the movies
 
I’d say: TLK Megatron > Lockdown ≈ Sentinel Prime >= AoE-TLK Optimus = RotF-DotM Optimus >= AoE-TLK Bumblebee
 
Optimus ragdolls Bee twice on this 12 seconds

Optimus hand gun is able to push Bee a few meters back when it didn't even hit Bee directly

Bee does the same thing, but it doesn't affect Optimus, or if it did, it was minimal, and that is followed by a sword swing that needed to be blocked by Bee, while prime always took the Hammer swings face on, quite literally

Another ragdoll by OP that Bee can't get out of

Bee is certainly comparable, but not stronger than Prime, not on physical strength, there was that time where Bee disarmed Prime, but it wasn't with his strenght alone, he kicked to the direction Prime was swinging, so he used his own strength to disarm Prime instead of overpowering it
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I think Lockdown would beat Sentinel in a straight up fight, though it would be a difficult fight.
Click to expand...
It depends IMO, Sentinel has better showings against Optimus on Close Combat, so I think he has the advantage on that, if speaking of ranged options, Sentinel has his rust gun, but powerwise, Lockdown has his Face Gun, but apparently he only uses to snipe targets, so it probably really that good on CQC
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Except, the rotf game aren't that different from the movie counterparts, it seems to only apply for the rotf game, such a statement was never said in the movies
Click to expand...

Ok, this is the scene. I remembered it completely wrongly. Ratchet says that Megatron IS on a Decepticon transport ina distant galaxy. Either he means Nemesis (which is crashed, so Megatron would have to fly there himself), or it's a different Decepticon ship.

So, either Megatron is MFTL, or the ship is.

Also, I was talking about the game version, not the movie.
 
I'm not saying he's not MFTL, I'm saying the MFTL thing is only for the ROTF game counterpart, and not the Movie one. Still doesn't justify a new key for Megatron
 
Completely new body would warrant a new key. It’s not the same as just getting some new equipment.
 
For me the scalling would be the following

Lockdown's Face gun >=Megatron TLK > Sentinel Prime >=< Lockdown >= Optimus Prime >= Megatron 07/RoTF > Grimlock/Dinobots >= TLK Bumblebee > Barricade TLK >= Megatron DoTM

Lockdown two shotted Optimus with that gun

Megatron in TLK is the only one who is clearly shown to be physically superior to Optimus out of anyone there

Being honest here, there is no reason to compare Sentinel and Lockdown in terms of physical Strength, since both appear to outskill Optimus in their battle more than being physically superior, well Sentinel was a 1v1, but on Lockdown's case, Lockdown only managed to get the jump on Optimus after he got him with his guard down for the 2nd time

Grimlock and the Dinobots are in a weird position, in a way, Grimlock never hitted Optimus, but Prime's hits seem to be dealing some massive damage. It was stated that Optimus always hold back and that normally he is on par with Megatron, and OP doesn't seem to get that more strong after each movie, so I just feel that the Dinobots are inferior

Bee gave a better fight to Optimus, but he doesn't seem that Physically superior to the Dinobots

Barricade is clearly inferior to Bee, some shots and he got thrown out of the road, still alive

Megatron in the 3rd movie is he in his weakest, and he is not fully healed yet, he bested Sentinel Prime, but after the latter was already being punished by the NEST, the autobots and Optimus
 
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