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Transduality justification for the true form of Arceus?

Georredannea15

Georredannea15

He/Him
4,161
2,704
Transduality (Nature 2, Aspect 2; They are the "God who transcends everything", that is both a part of everything and outside everything, beyond both time and space and the Distortion world having percieved them into creation. The Distortion World being nothingness that is a reverse of the world, that mirrors all its concepts; both material and metaphysical, forming a eseential balance as the world's reflection.)
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Low Complex Multiverse level (Arceus is the "God who transcends everything"[181] whose realm is beyond both time and space[182]. Being farther than Giratina's reach[183], and the realms of The Creation Trio, including Giratina's which lacks the concept of both time and space[184], and Palkia's which has domain over both the parallel dimensions[185] and the directions[186], with the Creation Trio members also being their own realms themselves.[187])
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I saw that Arceus' AP and Low 1-C/6-D equipment with Transduality equipment are the same, but there is a problem,

Transduality is given because in its true form it is "God who transcends everything", but the reason for the 6-D/qualitative superiority of this true form is the same, namely, "God transcends everything". However, a character who has already transcended everything and received a dimensional superiority cannot also receive transduality for this feat, because for transduality you need to be on the same plane, there can be no transduality if there is any dimensional superiority.

I opened this in the Q&A thread because I have a few question marks in my head and I may be misinterpreting it here.

It would be good if Everything12 could clarify, because he wasn't sure it fit either.

If the 6-D and TD2 requirements for true form are the same, TD2 should be removed. Because there is already a dimensional transcendence for the same requirement, it cannot be TD at the same time.
 
Damn, I thought you were dead.

730211080214806541.webp
 
Georredannea15 said:
However, a character who has already transcended everything and received a dimensional superiority cannot also receive transduality for this feat, because for transduality you need to be on the same plane, there can be no transduality if there is any dimensional superiority.
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If he still maintain his abstraction nature in higher D, i dont think we should remove that

But if he have transduality just by transcend, and not show any transduality nature in higher D then we should removed his TD
 
Fixxed said:
If he still maintain his abstraction nature in higher D, i dont think we should remove that

But if he have transduality just by transcend, and not show any transduality nature in higher D then we should removed his TD
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Where there is higher D, we cannot speak of Transduality anyway, because higher D means not only to transcend concepts, also to transcend the whole of that plane, a 6-D being cannot receive Transduality because it is qualitatively superior to the 5-D plane and concepts.

This is how Arceus gets the higher D it has, if it is higher -D already, it cannot be Transduality because it has to be on the same plane as the concepts.

That is, it is a TD for a 5-D being to be inherently transcendent from 5-D dualities, but this cannot be mentioned since a 6-D being already transcends the entire plane dimensionally, that is, there is dimensional superiority
 
Georredannea15 said:
Where there is higher D, we cannot speak of Transduality anyway, because higher D means not only to transcend concepts, also to transcend the whole of that plane, a 6-D being cannot receive Transduality because it is qualitatively superior to the 5-D plane and concepts.

This is how Arceus gets the higher D it has, if it is higher -D already, it cannot be Transduality because it has to be on the same plane as the concepts.

That is, it is a TD for a 5-D being to be inherently transcendent from 5-D dualities, but this cannot be mentioned since a 6-D being already transcends the entire plane dimensionally, that is, there is dimensional superiority
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If arceus still have that nature in higher D, TD still work
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Arceus was/is the original state of existence where all things and concepts were one single whole. This would still be transduality.
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Imagine it like this. All the concepts that were apart of this whole would technically be 6-D but there also isn't any distinct concepts as they were all the exact same thing then this whole creates or splits off concepts from itself creating these "lesser" concepts.
 
Fixxed said:
If arceus still have that nature in higher D, TD still work
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There is no proof that Arceus has them in 6-D, the only thing I said is that the requirement for TD is the same as the requirement for the dimensional superior it has.
 
Didn't he have 6D due to being like that. his transcendence is what granted him 6D potency
but as far as people are concerned he is a reverse smurf so his nature as TD2 should be at 5D because that's where he has that nature that allowed him to be 6D in the first place
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Arceus was/is the original state of existence where all things and concepts were one single whole. This would still be transduality.
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Arceus is a god who transcends everything, including concepts and spacetime, and thus gains dimensional transcendence and qualitative superiority, if this transcendence already gives you dimensional transcendence, we cannot speak of Transduality in any way. For Transduality it has to transcend the dualities of the plane it exists on without any dimensional transcendence. But here Arceus, together with space-time and dualities, is entitled to 6-D because it directly transcends the plane dimensionally, and this... It is not transduality.


The reason why Arceus transcends dualities, spacetime and other things is not Transduality, its dimensional superiority. If the type of transcendence is dimensional superiority, it does not provide Transduality.

It will not be TD for a 6-D being to transcend 5-D dualities, concepts and spacetime. As I said, the place where higher D and TD come from is exactly the same, but if 6-D is given from the statement of God who transcends everything, TD cannot be given as an extra.
If everyone really has nothing extra to add and just says "this might give you td", I'll open a downgrade
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Didn't he have 6D due to being like that. his transcendence is what granted him 6D potency
but as far as people are concerned he is a reverse smurf so his nature as TD2 should be at 5D because that's where he has that nature that allowed him to be 6D in the first place
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Then shouldn't this be stated in the profile? I mean... So for a 6-D duality to harm Arceus, there would have to be no feat that it harms TD2 beings. Because that only works in 5-D.

But my point is that it would be absurd for a higher D being, which already transcends concepts, dualities and planes dimensionally, to have TD on this plane
 
Georredannea15 said:
Arceus is a god who transcends everything, including concepts and spacetime, and thus gains dimensional transcendence and qualitative superiority, if this transcendence already gives you dimensional transcendence, we cannot speak of Transduality in any way. For Transduality it has to transcend the dualities of the plane it exists on without any dimensional transcendence. But here Arceus, together with space-time and dualities, is entitled to 6-D because it directly transcends the plane dimensionally, and this... It is not transduality.


The reason why Arceus transcends dualities, spacetime and other things is not Transduality, its dimensional superiority. If the type of transcendence is dimensional superiority, it does not provide Transduality.

It will not be TD for a 6-D being to transcend 5-D dualities, concepts and spacetime. As I said, the place where higher D and TD come from is exactly the same, but if 6-D is given from the statement of God who transcends everything, TD cannot be given as an extra.
If everyone really has nothing extra to add and just says "this might give you td", I'll open a downgrade
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Nice way to completely ignore what I said. Original One is a being where all concepts and things are one single unity. This counts for transduality because everything "in" this unity would be 6-D including all concepts etc until they "split off" into actual differentiated concepts because they're all the exact same thing. Arceus also doesn't only hold a "dimensional transcendence" but also an ontological transcendence to concepts/duality.

While it transcends the concepts it differentiated from itself (and all of them just being a sort of imperfect manifestation of itself which it ultimately transcends), the same can't be said for the unity where all concepts/duality would be one singular whole (instead of 0 and 1 to represent duality 0 and 1 would be merged into exact same thing thus duality being inapplicable as it would be something more like "2" or completely outside dual systems as it's a single unity within the Original One) as that is literally it's existence and that it would 6-D all the same because everything is the same existence as the Original One.
 
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BestMGQScalerEver said:
Nice way to completely ignore what I said. Original One is a being where all concepts and things are one single unity. This counts for transduality because everything "in" this unity would be 6-D including all concepts etc until they "split off" into actual differentiated concepts because they're all the exact same thing. Arceus also doesn't only hold a "dimensional transcendence" but also an ontological transcendence to concepts/duality.

While it transcends the concepts it differentiated from itself (and all of them just being a sort of imperfect manifestation of itself which it ultimately transcends), the same can't be said for the unity where all concepts/duality would be one singular whole (instead of 0 and 1 to represent duality 0 and 1 would be merged into exact same thing thus duality being inapplicable as it would be something more like "2" or completely outside dual systems as it's a single unity within the Original One) as that is literally it's existence and that it would 6-D all the same because everything is the same existence as the Original One.
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Brother, you still don't understand or can't understand. If there is a qualitative and dimensional superiority here, it cannot be because of Transduality in the first place, for Transduality you have to be on the same plane with the dualities, but Arceus, with the dualities, transcends the plane and everything else dimensionally. A 6-D being transcending 5D dualities does not give you Transduality.

We can't say that Arceus' Transduality works in 5-D, because a character who is already 6-D, transcends 5-D concepts and is not affected by them even without Transduality, there is no reason to assume Transduality, because it is something that a dimensional transcendent provides.
 
It was kind of discussed in the Transduality thread (though, it wasn't argued nor was it accepted because that wasn't really what the thread was about), but it seems like Dialga and Palkia and their respective concepts (and Giratina too, most likely) actually were born before the multiverse and the higher dimensions in it were created (they actually created them), and they (Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina) were created directly from the Original One, which would place them around 6-D, or something like that.

Of course, that has to get accepted first, but if it does, Arceus can and should keep its Transduality. (It should keep it anyway, but that's just my opinion).
 
What was discussed in the thread was whether the concepts were really duality, because I don't remember anyone addressing this topic. That's why I opened this up in the form of a Q&A at the beginning, in case I missed something, but it doesn't seem like anyone has anything extra to say, so I think I'll open a downgrade.

Everyone's answer was "why not"

The reason why a being that is 6D can transcend 5-D dualities is not because of Td, because of dimensional superiority, which is
 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Oh, sorry, it was brought up in this thread.
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Yes, these were opened to make concepts and haxs 5-D. My point is that a 6-D character already transcends 5-D dualities, concepts and other 5-D things by default, even without transduality, and is unaffected. This is not a justification for transduality, and transduality is the hax of existence, if it is 6-D, then these dualities must also be 6-D.

And thank you, man, for posting this.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Brother, you still don't understand or can't understand. If there is a qualitative and dimensional superiority here, it cannot be because of Transduality in the first place, for Transduality you have to be on the same plane with the dualities, but Arceus, with the dualities, transcends the plane and everything else dimensionally. A 6-D being transcending 5D dualities does not give you Transduality.

We can't say that Arceus' Transduality works in 5-D, because a character who is already 6-D, transcends 5-D concepts and is not affected by them even without Transduality, there is no reason to assume Transduality, because it is something that a dimensional transcendent provides.
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He mean the 6D realm already a transduality realm in this verse and arceus is the 6D realm it self
 
Fixxed said:
He mean the 6D realm already a transduality realm in this verse and arceus is the 6D realm it self
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Such a thing is already illogical, the 6-D realm and Arceus transcending 5-D dualities does not give it Transduality, because this transcendence of the realm and Arceus already gives them a dimensional transcends. The realm and Arceus transcend not only dualities but also that plane and dimension, the reason why they transcend these dualities and are not affected by them is dimensional superiority, not Transduality.


Either way it is a dead end. Because the dualities it transcends are 5-D, but a 6-D being or realm is already transcendent them without Transduality, this is not any justification or proof of transduality.

I mean, you can't get Transduality for something that you have already transcended dimensionally, because you have transcended everything that can happen on that plane.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Such a thing is already illogical, the 6-D realm and Arceus transcending 5-D dualities does not give it Transduality, because this transcendence of the realm and Arceus already gives them a dimensional transcends. The realm and Arceus transcend not only dualities but also that plane and dimension, the reason why they transcend these dualities and are not affected by them is dimensional superiority, not Transduality.


Either way it is a dead end. Because the dualities it transcends are 5-D, but a 6-D being or realm is already transcendent them without Transduality, this is not any justification or proof of transduality.

I mean, you can't get Transduality for something that you have already transcended dimensionally, because you have transcended everything that can happen on that plane.
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Illogical??? Elaborate

Higher realm already a abstract realm in this context, not some physical realm. The nature of that realm by default is abstract. It not make sense if we give physical atribute to some abstract realm just because it is higher reality than the physical realm

If higher realm is pure abstract, let say it pure concept then we must give AE type 1 for someone that become that higher realm, because his very nature already become a concept
 
Fixxed said:
Illogical??? Elaborate

Higher realm already a abstract realm in this context, not some physical realm. The nature of that realm by default is abstract. It not make sense if we give physical atribute to some abstract realm just because it is higher reality than the physical realm

If higher realm is pure abstract, let say it pure concept then we must give AE type 1 for someone that become that higher realm, because his very nature already become a concept
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This higher realm is a higher dimensional than everything(concepts, spacetime and others,) wiki recognises it as such, and this transcendence cannot be interpreted as Transduality or otherwise when wiki already recognises the nature of this transcendence as such. A 6-D realm/being transcending 5-D dualities is not Transduality.
 
Pretty sure Tranduality is within the scope it is. You can be transdual to 5D but if 6D or above follows a different rule/law set then of course it wouldn't work on them
And you can ba transdual to 5D while also being 6D.

Tbh I don't really remember Arceus reason for 6D
But afaik he is 6D for being beyond even his own realm which is 5D and this 5D realm is merely a part of his true self which is 6D as oneness where everything in creation originated from
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Pretty sure Tranduality is within the scope it is. You can be transdual to 5D but if 6D or above follows a different rule/law set then of course it wouldn't work on them
And you can ba transdual to 5D while also being 6D.

Tbh I don't really remember Arceus reason for 6D
But afaik he is 6D for being beyond even his own realm which is 5D and this 5D realm is merely a part of his true self which is 6D as oneness where everything in creation originated from
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I mean, this and everything else that transduality provides is already provided by dimensional superiority, so there can be no transduality in any way. A 6-D character is already inherently unaffected by 5-D dualities even without transduality, the nature of transcendence here is not transdual transcendence, this is dimensional transcendence, which is why it is not affected. In short, Transduality is unnecessary.

In this case, if it has to have transduality, it has to have extra context and statements about transcending the dualities in the 6-D plane in which it is located, in short, more things.

Anyway, thanks for your contributions, I was thinking that maybe I missed something, but I didn't, and this TD I guessed is wrong.
 
Kinda but best to wait for Everything12 since he's the one that pushed it after he was enlightened that 5D Arceus realm is indeed a valid (I was there and this crt mostly happened with Sniper and everything12 etc)

I may have said my part but I'm not completely knowledgeable in entirety and based on what shown to me back then I'm still somewhat not convinced but lacked any means to say otherwise because I do not truly know the verse
 
Georredannea15 said:
This higher realm is a higher dimensional than everything(concepts, spacetime and others,) wiki recognises it as such, and this transcendence cannot be interpreted as Transduality or otherwise when wiki already recognises the nature of this transcendence as such. A 6-D realm/being transcending 5-D dualities is not Transduality.
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No, 6D realm in this already a abtract transduality realm, of course this specific to this verse. General higher D in wiki just higher D but still in physical realm, so of course they not have abstractness existence like oneness or unity of all thing (simulteneously A and B)
 
Fixxed said:
No, 6D realm in this already a abtract transduality realm, of course this specific to this verse. General higher D in wiki just higher D but still in physical realm, so of course they not have abstractness existence like oneness or unity of all thing (simulteneously A and B)
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Lmao no. The reason why this realm is 6-D is because it transcends everything, including dualities, space-time and the entire plane.

There is a transcendence according to duality here, but this transcendence is not transdual in nature, it is a directly dimensional transcendence, the reason why it is not harmed by dualities is because it is a higher D reaml/being according to dualities, not because it is a transdual realm/being, because the true form of Arceus is already 6-D because it transcends 5-D dualities and everything else.


In short, this transcendence is a dimensional transcendence, not a transdual one.

If Arceus was a 5-D being in its true form, but transcended everything in 5-D, including dualities, then yes. It would be a transdual being because there would not be a dimensional transcendence, there would be a transdual transcendence.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Lmao no. The reason why this realm is 6-D is because it transcends everything, including dualities, space-time and the entire plane.

There is a transcendence according to duality here, but this transcendence is not transdual in nature, it is a directly dimensional transcendence, the reason why it is not harmed by dualities is because it is a higher D reaml/being according to dualities, not because it is a transdual realm/being, because the true form of Arceus is already 6-D because it transcends 5-D dualities and everything else.


In short, this transcendence is a dimensional transcendence, not a transdual one.

If Arceus was a 5-D being in its true form, but transcended everything in 5-D, including dualities, then yes. It would be a transdual being because there would not be a dimensional transcendence, there would be a transdual transcendence.
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You take physical dimensional transcendence to this context. It not matter if that realm is transcend and being a higher reality, the matter is, that realm already in the state of abstraction
 
Fixxed said:
You take physical dimensional transcendence to this context. It not matter if that realm is transcend and being a higher reality, the matter is, that realm already in the state of abstraction
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The fact that it is abstract does not mean anything because these statements and the type of transcendence is a dimensional transcendence(So, spatital) in the first place.
 
Georredannea15 said:
The fact that it is abstract does not mean anything because these statements and the type of transcendence is a dimensional transcendence(So, spatital) in the first place.
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He transcend to the oneness state, it literally a abstraction. Just because the oneness state is equal to 6D it not mean it has same nature with 6D physical dimension
 
Everything12 said:
Who told you this? One thing can be used to give two different abilities if it is suitable evidence.
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Why do we TD a 6-D character because it transcends 5-D dualities? Maybe it does not transcend these dualities by its conceptual nature? Because there is already a dimensional transcendence in between that ensures non-interactivity and transcendence.
 
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