(STOMP) Touma vs Bat, a martial artist? Fukou da... (1 | 0 | 0)

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

It's as simple as it says, Kamijou Touma from To Aru Majutsu No Index vs Bat from Hokuto no Ken!

And yes, I'm aware this'll be mostly a fight of brawn.

• Speed is Unequalized, they're both Peak Human are they not?
• Touma vs Adult Bat.
• Base Touma only.
• 9-C keys are used.
• Battle takes place in the Wasteland.
• Winner via K.O or Death.

"Fukou da..." (Touma): 1

"I will change this world for the one I love the most!" (Bat): 0

They both end up knocking each other out. (Inconclusive): 0

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I don't think Touma even has a single win-con here, tbh. He is consistently skill-stomped by people who have a decent grasp of martial arts and it seems like Bat is skilled in this regard. Way too skilled for Touma, IMO.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Are you implying that this match might be a skill stomp for Bat? I don't really know. Imo, we should probably let some other people cast their opinions first, also, I might as well say this:

His skill mostly comes from learning how to survive in the wasteland alongside Kenshiro, as well as somehow learning a few of his Hokuto Shinken techniques, so he should fit in the category of grasping a decent prowess of martial arts.

He's also a leader of an army and can take down several soldiers, which means he's gained an exponential amount of skill as time passed.

However, I feel like the ability to use Hokuto Shinken techniques alone gives Bat an advantage, we both know what happens whenever Kenshiro strikes someone in a pressure point, unless Touma can nullify pressure point striking with Imagine Breaker.

If in that case, it dies down to physical strength, to which Bat is likely superior to Touma in.

A good example is his LS, which is one of the advantages Bat has over Touma for now; peak human > athletic human.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Forgot about this thread, and... ye... This is a stomp for Bat.

He's 100% better at fighting than Touma based on what you've stated. Touma's opponents are folks with no actual fighting experience and are just street punks, folks that mainly use magic and aren't well-versed in martial arts due to it, or folks that Touma beats physiologically by breaking down their ideals or showcasing their faults as well as his opponents' mental faults.

Touma has only gotten somewhat better in fighting after a large amount of light novel volumes, and he is still a street brawler with half-decent fighting skill that falls whenever he is facing a true martial artist. His precognition and/or sense of forbidden only applies to supernatural attacks like fireballs and whatnot - not things like Bat's ability to cast fist, if you get what I mean... but to make it clear, it won't help Touma in the slightest.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I am decently well-verse in To-Aru, and I am pretty sure that other To-Aru Supporters will say the same thing.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

What's the AP gap.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

No calcs, so... They might be equal in the basis that no calcs means that character's AP and Dura are baseline.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I don't know if Touma can damage Bat due to his Peak Human Characteristics and all. But assuming he can...then one should take to consideration his Precognition ability that allows him to dodge Bat's attack since Touma is capable of reacting to attacks like Othinus's Gungnir and others.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

This could more than likely be a stomp because of the skill gap-

As for Touma, I learned his precog only works on supernatural powers, and I forgot if Hokuto Shinken pressure point striking was considered supernatural or just pure martial arts. His precog doesn't really work on normal fight stuff, so Bat could still likely throw a punch to damage him. This stuff is usually why Touma goes down to guns and martial arts users. Bat should grasp a decent prowess of martial arts alone because he's capable of performing albeit a bit of Kenshiro's Hokuto Shinken stuff.

Factoring in the fact that Bat already has a superior LS, he could likely overpower Touma in a few aspects.

If this ain't a stomp, then Bat likely has the edge for now, considering his fighting style mixes in fist throwing and Hokuto Shinken martial arts iirc

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

As for Touma, I learned his precog only works on supernatural powers, and I forgot if Hokuto Shinken pressure point striking was considered supernatural or just pure martial arts.

Where did you get this? It doesn't have to be supernatural power, it works via his unconscious registering what's happening on the battlefield passively (unconsciously), the reason why it doesn't work on "normal fight" stuff is because he consciously register what's happening, therefore not allowing his Precognition to work.

Touma can dodge those attack and hit Bat somewhere idk. Though the skill gap is something I'm quite worried, but Touma has gotten through countless fight and suffering so his skill isn't something you can throw out the window either.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

I ended up looking at the Kuroko vs Touma thread and saw that- xD

Bat's a close range fighter, that's especially obvious considering he uses a bit of Ken's style.

As for Touma, if he's able to consciously register in what's happening in a normal fight, then it just dumbs down to if Touma can even hurt Bat because of his peak human physical characteristics, and if Hokuto Shinken pressure point striking is just martial arts or considered supernatural.

Right now, all we know is Bat has the superior skill, technique, and LS.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

That's what I'm asking, can Touma even hurt him. I do want to know how does Bat fight, if he likes to tears arm or sum then it would only bring doom to him because Invisible Thing will appear.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

True, also, tearing arms?

No, he usually knocks his opponents out, in a battle of strength, I think I see Bat triumphing because of the reasons above imo, that, and if he lands one pressure point strike in considering if Hokuto Shinken is just martial arts and if IB can't null pressure point striking, which is a form of martial arts, he could pull a Kenshiro with "Omae wa mo, shindeiru." and explode Touma's head, if not his entire upper body. Hokuto Shinken pressure point striking is selective on what can explode iirc

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Both have Peak Human Characteristics, but Bat looks so buff to be hurt...but maybe that's just me.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Could be just you, a lot of the adults in Fist of the North Star are built like JoJo characters- xD

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Well, I'll wait for others but I'm voting Touma since he seems to be capable of hurting Bat due to both having Peak Human Characteristics, and Touma is capable of reacting to Supersonic attacks.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Vote counted.

And I agree, I'd like to at least see what other's think about the whole Bat knowing a bit Hokuto Shinken stuff, for all I know, he could likely use pressure point hax to snag a W. Especially since if what was previously said was true, Bat capable of using martial arts would give him a good advantage in terms of skill and technique, although your point right now is that Touma can hurt Bat, yes, they should be capable of harming each other. You're now saying his Supersonic reaction speed is what will allow him to win this. To which the next part comes in:

Touma is capable of reacting to Supersonic attacks.

Before the votes roll in here, can you answer a question for me really quick?

Isn't his precog the only way he's able to dodge at supersonic speeds? He's only peak human physically in speed, which puts him and Bat on equal terms there, that and Bat already has a few advantages here.

If he doesn't need precog to dodge literally everything Bat throws at him, then I'd probably have to equalize speed so it isn't a total auto-dodge speed blitz for Touma.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Well, it actually depends how does his technique work.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

He simply strikes pressure points in the body like a martial artist would do so.

Which then causes the opponent to explode for some reason, I looked at Hokuto Shinken on the HNK wiki but it doesn't really say anything about supernatural punchy stuffs, just physical assassination techniques.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Well he can sense the involuntary movement of the Hokuto Ken (I believe it's called?), like the air movement before the Hokuto Ken, so his Precognition should activate. But if it doesn't (which is unlikely) then Bat can win this one, so it's not a stomp IMO.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Hokuto Shinken is described as:

The art's power is focused into channeling one's energy in a single blow and striking into the 708 Keiraku Hikō (経絡秘孔, "Hidden Channeling Points") points in the human body (also known as acupressure points, power points, vital points, tsubo, etc.). These pressure points destroy the enemy from within, and causes the victim to explode, be controlled involuntarily or otherwise incapacitated. It can also be used to heal certain physical and psychological wounds, such as restoring a person's voice, eyesight or memories, though the main purpose of Hokuto Shinken is assassination. When trying to destroy or manipulate a target, a pressure point must be struck with great strength and accuracy. Conversely to cause a healing effect, the pressure points must be touched with precise gentleness. In either case a great level of skill is required to trigger the desired effects. An inexperienced user may cause an alternative reaction or simply nothing, and in the most extreme cases it can backfire.

It's mostly just crazy martial artist stuff revolving around pressure points in the human body, at least what I'm picking up.

I think Bat could win this with pressure point hax imo, but Touma could also just land tons of punchies. This could honestly go either way.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Alright, I just figured it out.

Although this statement might not be true since it's from a game.

Kenshiro used Hokuto Shinken and described it all as just technique, not magic. So, Bat should probably be able to squeeze in a single pressure point strike.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Bump.

Of course, I hope what's above is read instead of it being a big FRA train all of a sudden, we might need to discuss technique on Touma's precog lol-

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I'll expand more on Touma's Instinctive Reaction (it isn't precog but moreso called precog out of simplicity's sake). It... simply allows him to unconsciously predict the path of an attack and move his body accordingly to stop it with Imagine Breaker, dodge it or try to reduce the damage to his vitals in case the former two options aren't possible. It won't help Touma in attacking Bat but would help him avoid getting hit by the pressure point techniques of Bat for a bit but he'll be down for the count once Bat lands a hit.

I'll also expand on the feats of Touma's precog, btw. It isn't limited to the supersonic range. It goes much higher to the point that it is extremely hard to calc it... Than again, I think dodging an attack that surpasses the restrictions of the third dimension, dodging an attack that ignores the concept of numbers and causes a torrential rain of arrows that colored the night sky like stars; speaks for itself. Also, ignoring those things, Touma's precog has allowed him to react to sub-relativistic attacks, at the very least. And with speed being equal, Touma's precog should be able to work on Bat.

... Problem is that Touma's precog isn't really meant for offensive usage. It is moreso used to keep Touma alive against attacks that would instantly kill him if they even graze his body slightly and to allow him to get close to magic-users/espers so that he can punch the crap out of them.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

That, and Hokuto Shinken is pure technique, not magic, at least according to Kenshiro.

Even slightly grazing the body with Hokuto Shinken could hit a pressure point and cause someone to explode, if my memory serves me correctly.

It could reduce damage to his vitals, but then it'd probably be useless because they'd explode soon after. I think Bat could likely land a lucky strike in, plus he should have some great skill and knowledge in martial arts, also considering Touma isn't very lucky, ironically.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ye. Bat has the advantage here regardless of Touma's precog.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Thanks for the input though, Fanta! Don't know where we'd be without you.

Is this a stomp or does Bat have enough evidence to be voted on now? Certainly seems like he has the advantage over Touma to at least squeeze in a W with the Hokuto Shinken techniques, also factoring in the fact that Bat has more skill in martial arts and Touma is generally unlucky, precog might not do much here for Touma.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

NP, if you ever need help in a Fate/Toaru/Danganronpa/Undertale/RWBY/Re: Zero match, I am the person for the job.

And ye, it is a stomp. If Bat didn't have the pressure points that make you explode thingy, I would lean towards him, but since he does... Touma has no way to win or defend himself.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Alrighty! Maybe there /is/ a thread you can give your input in.

Btw, Hokuto Shinken's a crazy martial arts style, but yeah, I dunno if others will agree to this being a stomp for Bat, maybe it will because explodey punchies-

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Send me the link for where that match is / when that match is made. I'll be willing to help.

But, really, Touma doesn't do well at all with martial artists in canon. He usually gets folded like a chair whenever he fights one. The few times he "won" against martial artists is due to circumstances that Touma used to get his ass out of getting-your-ass-kicked-town; like facing a brawler that just really wanted to exchange punches with him because they are a power-hungry blood knight, or facing somebody that literally let Touma kicked their ass because they lost all hope and motivation to truly fight back when Touma started throwing puches.