Touhou Thread Rule Removal

[Planck69]

So, to clarify, Touhou Project had a rule implemented around 4 months ago that prohibited both matches and content revisions from being made.

Note: Please do not create VS threads or content revision threads involving Touhou Project, as the verse is heavily outdated and is being actively worked on.

From the Touhou Project verse page.


Yeah, this isn't remotely sustainable. Not only was one of the main supporters (and initial proponent of this proposal) permanently banned a month ago, but in general it is a pretty asinine move to just freeze a verse at the arbitrary whim of a single member. Versus threads is one thing but locking revisions themselves for several months on end behind specific members is another.

All in all, I suggest the rule be removed or at the very least, be reduced to restricting versus threads for any given amount of time.

Agree: 7 (Theglassman12, Propellus, CloverDragon03, (Says VS Thread ban should stay) Eseseso (Says VS Thread ban should stay), ShionAH (VS Thread Ban should stay), Phsccarvalho, Pepsimanslover_69)

Disagree: 2 (Shiroiyo, Topaz404)

Neutral: 0

 

[Planck69]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @Abstractions @SamanPatou @LordGriffin1000 @Celestial_Pegasus

Your input would be appreciated.

 

[Topaz404]

Normally, i dont comment on stuff like this- however
Fuji is still working on the verse off site, and supporters are still working on it. it would be best to spare them the headache with the possibility of people downgrading the verse out of spite

But thats my two cents about it
(Disagree on the OP, btw, if it isnt staff only with votes)

 

[Planck69]

Normally, i dont comment on stuff like this- however
Fuji is still working on the verse off site, and supporters are still working on it. it would be best to spare them the headache with the possibility of people downgrading the verse out of spite

A banned member shouldn't factor into how we treat a verse on the site, even if an admittedly active supporter formerly. And this doesn't prevent supporters from working on it, it just doesn't lock a verse's entire function behind a handful of people.

And I'm not sure what you even mean at the second point. A downgrade, so long as its contents are actually sensible, can be made theoretically even if the person's user name was "IHateTouhou", let alone the fact that this doesn't mean we allow other outdated verses to outlaw revision threads.

But thats my two cents about it
(Disagree on the OP, btw, if it isnt staff only with votes)

Only staff can evaluate but for now at least, you can share your two cents for them to see. That's still valued input.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I only see bunch of Goku victims about to meet their end e.t.c.

 

[Topaz404]

As for the second point, it mainly had to do with the point that Fuji wasnt very well liked during her time here- and with her downgrading GoW and DMC, it just gives me the feeling that the supporters would spite downgrade Touhou.

Im not saying it will happen, no no- its just one of many possibilities. If a downgrade has plausibility, then it would be treated as fairy as any other upgrades/downgrades. I hope that makes sense

 

[Shiroiyo]

I think the rule should stay, the verse is pretty big in terms of content, and the revisions are being planned for years now, we have sandbox and discord to discuss it, it also helps the supporters focus on the revisions as we won't have to deal with vs threads and revisions made without communication that would ultimately spend time to deal with it as they can coutain wrong and lacking information that isn't widely available for anyone

 

[Planck69]

As for the second point, it mainly had to do with the point that Fuji wasnt very well liked during her time here- and with her downgrading GoW and DMC, it just gives me the feeling that the supporters would spite downgrade Touhou.

Im not saying it will happen, no no- its just one of many possibilities. If a downgrade has plausibility, then it would be treated as fairy as any other upgrades/downgrades. I hope that makes sense

I mean, fair but like I said, we'd look at a revision's contents before anything, even if the reason for the revision being made may be suspect. That shouldn't really be a reason to give a verse exclusive treatment in the matter of CRTs.

I can maybe take a step back at restricting versus threads (since that's a fair concern with outdated matches) but a single group of members shouldn't really have a blanket recourse on a verse's revisions.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah I don’t really see the point with this “lock the verse up from any form of CRTs or versus threads”, especially with the latter being done mostly for fun and if any upcoming CRT renders those matchups outdated, you’d just remove them, simple as that.

If the verse does get downgraded, whether it’s due to faulty reasoning, then any future CRTs can rectify that. Thats how literally every verse in this site functions when it comes to any form of upgrades or downgrades. All in all, I agree with removing this rule.

 

[ShionAH]

I think I can agree with removing the CRT ban, but I think VS thread ban should stay.

 

[Eseseso]

I think that vs threads should be allowed, but keeping the ban on revision threads is...ok.

If both go, Idc.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

If there is a concern of spite threads from GOW and DMC supporters couldn't there be a topic ban for them for a certain time?

 

[Planck69]

If there is a concern of spite threads from GOW and DMC supporters couldn't there be a topic ban for them for a certain time?

We don't topic ban members based on a hypothetical "revenge" they might do with CRTs, especially considering that if a CRT is solid then the reason for it being made would be irrelevant.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Alr. Agreeing with the thread for now.

 

[ShionAH]

Your input would be appreciated.

@Propellus too since he was one of the staff who accepted it

 

[Planck69]

Alright.

@Propellus Input would also be appreciated.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Spite threads are absolutely punishable I believe, though I don't consider that a reason to lock down the verse. We'd take the appropriate action against the user or users in question.

But yeah, I did admittedly think the rule was fine before, but thinking on it now... that's not really how any verse works. Outdated verses exist and they don't lock down the ability to make CRTs on them. Going by site rules, that's legit a basic thing anyone should be allowed to do. The exception is discussion rules, and those are made because a topic has been retreaded with the same arguments over and over again, not simply because a verse is outdated. I do agree with keeping the restriction on VS Threads though, as that's something that's actually seen - locking down VS matches for a verse because its profiles are too outdated to be a proper representation of the verse.

So basically, I agree with removing the CRT rule part of it, but keep the VS match rule part

 

[Propellus]

I guess the suggestion is fine, even though I don't really give much of a shit about the verse

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Hey, don't bring DMC into this. We don't care about this shitty verse, how outdated it is or how the "main" supporter (was she even one? Imagine wanting to waste years on a crusade instead of fixing your own shit) was messing with us.

If we cared even an ounce we would have been making threads ages ago when literally the whole fanbase was active, not now that everyone has a busy life.

 

[Topaz404]

Hey, don't bring DMC into this. We don't care about this shitty verse, how outdated it is or how the "main" supporter (was she even one? Imagine wanting to waste years on a crusade instead of fixing your own shit) was messing with us.

If we cared even an ounce we would have been making threads ages ago when literally the whole fanbase was active, not now that everyone has a busy life.

Hey, look, that was on me. I was typing before i was thinking, and i would like to apologize with my clearer hindsight

 

[Eseseso]

Clover makes sense.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I agree with crt (not that it matters)

Like, imagine that you are a guy who joined vsbattle to make some update on a character he likes in Touhou, or do a VSThread.

Then to find out that he can't do any of this because of a rule put in place by the "update head", who is now permanently banned.

And as the supporters said here, the rule was imposed months ago, hasn't this research for the big update been literally years? How long would a guy have to wait just to be able to have fun with a character he likes?

Just because something is mega updated doesn't mean it can't be used until now? Marvel and DC, because they are huge in terms of content, weren't out of date or things like that? They didn't have these rights excluding anything from CRTs or VS, for example the Magic page (I don't know how long it took)

Or Pokemon, which I think was worse, because the entire verse was changed because of canonicity and everything was done at a snail's pace (no offense to the supporters). In their case it was worse because everything was accepted but it was extremely difficult to apply so much (because it involved calculations, etc.), and they didn't get the "No crts and vs" voucher (as far as I know) because things were still being applied.

There's always some verse doing a huge update that could change everything, and that could take months (isn't it glass?), and no one gets a special pass for that.

Regarding outdated VS threads, just ask for everything to be removed in the requests thread. And as already mentioned, obvious spite threads are not allowed, and in the case of approved downgrades, it's up to you to try to resolve it later.

 

[Deidalius]

Huh, I thought the rule only applied to vs threads, not CRTs, I guess I misread.

I disagree with the ban on CRTs for the verse. We shouldn't let a single group of people or a person control the CRTs of a single verse. Any person should be allowed to make a Touhou CRT. Even Timothy who made an account two days ago just to change the verse. A CRT ban should have never happened.

And for the vs thread ban, I might be a teeny tiny bit biased because I do want to make Touhou fights because I like some of the characters and I want to talk about them in a powerscaling setting but I would prefer if we were allowed to make fights with the characters, even if their profiles are updated. I mean, for how long will we have to wait? Multiple months have passed. Will we wait a year? More months? We shouldn't be waiting an arbitrary amount of time to use characters we like. So either don't make a vs thread ban at all or just give a timer to the vs thread ban. Say "Due to current CRTs planned, vs threads should be banned for 6 months"

Because currently, a banned member and their group are the ones preventing CRTs and vs threads from happening, kinda like a monopoly. Which I don't think should have happened at all.

Either way, if the concern is spite threads, you could just easily remove them once the CRTs pass, you don't have to argue at every opportunity with literally anyone that makes a Touhou fight.

And if the concern is spite downgrades, you could just report them if you have proof of spite. Or deal with it, like, literally every other verse has to deal with spiteful people and haters trying to lowball their verse. I don't see why Touhou should be the exception. Pretty certain the rules of the wiki already target spiteful downgrades. Either way, this also prevents Timmy the Touhou wanker from TikTok from making upgrades. Basically letting the changes of the verse be restricted to a group of people, which shouldn't be allowed.

.
...
Enough yapping, here's the TL;DR

We should absolutely get rid of the ban on CRTs

I think we should remove the ban on VS threads but I am not opposed to letting it stay, I can see both points of the argument but I lean towards removing the ban on vs threads

 

[FallenWarGod]

The reason for Content Revision threads being banned is very weird to say the least. I am sure there are tons of outdated verses out there, and verses are updated all the time. That shouldn't stop threads from being made, in fact they should be encouraged if anything given the user who made the rule acknowledges the need for it.

That doesn't stop the supporters from making the crt as well, they can just change it to address any changes they have a problem with, like everybody else does.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah it should be nuked. Generally, certain characters being match-banned for being outdated and shitty but worked on is a thing that happens(SCP-682)...

Reimu Hakurei

Reimu Hakurei is the Shrine Maiden of the Hakurei Shrine and the main protagonist of the Touhou series alongside her friend, Marisa Kirisame. She is exceptionally talented and gifted, but her laziness makes her hate training. Despite that, she resolves incidents anyway, and she's friendly and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't know about you, but this profile is the exact opposite of shitty it's better then most of my profiles. Rules like this are basically on a timer, take too long, and eyebrows will be raised for if you're actually focusing on the verse. In this case, I think Touhou fell to the wayside, so the rule should have never been put in place.

 

[Deidalius]

Yeah it should be nuked. Generally, certain characters being match-banned for being outdated and shitty but worked on is a thing that happens(SCP-682)...

Reimu Hakurei

Reimu Hakurei is the Shrine Maiden of the Hakurei Shrine and the main protagonist of the Touhou series alongside her friend, Marisa Kirisame. She is exceptionally talented and gifted, but her laziness makes her hate training. Despite that, she resolves incidents anyway, and she's friendly and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't know about you, but this profile is the exact opposite of shitty it's better then most of my profiles. Rules like this are basically on a timer, take too long, and eyebrows will be raised for if you're actually focusing on the verse. In this case, I think Touhou fell to the wayside, so the rule should have never been put in place.

Now that you mention it, a lot of Touhou profiles are already better than other profiles in the site ~~and other Touhou profiles in other sites~~

Is there an objective way to determine that certain profiles are so bad that they CAN'T be used in vs threads or do the supporters just want to add and change more abilities?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Now that you mention it, a lot of Touhou profiles are already better than other profiles in the site ~~and other Touhou profiles in other sites~~

Is there an objective way to determine that certain profiles are so bad that they CAN'T be used in vs threads or do the supporters just want to add and change more abilities?

My way of determining it would be how outdated and bad the profile is. I can't speak on outdated but bad? Touhou profiles are generally nearly the Gold standard on the site.

While profiles like Guts haven't had any updates for the better part of a decade and are shitty even without that, but he's still used in matches even with people raising eyebrows at it

 

[Livinmeme]

Touho is going to be trapped in the WOD cycle of never ever CRT, so may as well remove it because shit is going to take a long time before it gets done

 

[Deidalius]

My way of determining it would be how outdated and bad the profile is. I can't speak on outdated but bad? Touhou profiles are generally nearly the Gold standard on the site.

While profiles like Guts haven't had any updates for the better part of a decade and are shitty even without that, but he's still used in matches even with people raising eyebrows at it

Ngl, I feel like there should be an objective standard of "How bad is a profile at detailing the current abilities of a character?" So that it warrants a vs thread ban. Probably some staff discussion or something because currently I feel like any verse that's slightly outdated could pull that card and prevent every fan of that verse suddenly can't use that verse for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

[Bernkastelll]

If the verse REALLY is so outdated then ig VS Matches ban should stay, but CRTs shouldn't be banned