touch the sword or gg

[Kidkinsey]

its often said that you NEED to touch aizens sword to get out of KS and it turns into a huge NLF, however it can be said that that is only the case if you have little to no reisstance to preception/sense manipluation.

Do you think if you have good resistance to preceptiation manip you would be able to resist it or even negate it without the need of touching the sword?

 

[Davidsteel1]

Probably, but Aizen's illusions are pretty damn broken, they can somehow affect Yhwach a dude that can see into multiple alternate futures all at once, your resistance will need to be pretty tough to see through them.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Ywachs senses were already being tampered with that's why the futures he was seeing were wonky, and yeah I'm not saying KS is fodder just that whole NLF aspect of it

 

[Davidsteel1]

Oh I agree on the NLF bit, Bleach has more than it's fair share of these broken abilities that can easily be NLF'd

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

You think Sasuke's EMSharingan/Rinnegan combo could see through it?

 

[Kidkinsey]

tbh yeah, the sharigan is able to see through illusions and even reflect them back onto the user

 

[Potato74]

Ehh idk about that I mean with that logic kakashi could of broken out of Itachi's Tsukunomi cuz he had a sharingan. And as for mentioned yhwach someone who can "see all possible futures" was still affected. Then you have TYBW enhancement of this ability so yea.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Well itachi said even if you know it's an illusion the suffering in your soul is real, plus it's not so much an illusion as it is creating a universe in your head that the host can control And that just means ywach dont have resistance to perception/sense manipulation

 

[Potato74]

Tsukuyomi is still a illusion though while yes being the most powerful genjustu not including the infinite TS but still I mean Aizen's hypnosis could do the same thing if he wanted to after all it manipulates all five senses and as said himself can allow people to hallucinate all sorts of things. And saying that all of Aizen's attacks do damage to the souls being a soul reaper with a extremely evolved zanpakuto in TYBW or if just regular before hokyoku Aizen still extremely powerful illusions.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Kyoka suigetsu can't do what tsukyomi does, onr is perception manip while the other is perception and mind manip, itachi made his Gf live out a 70 year life in 0.0001 seconds and she died via old age And there was no illusion for kakashi to reflect because itachi made the universe in his head

 

[Potato74]

Kyōka suigestu does have perception Manipulation idk what your talking about? That is also demonstrated multiple times ie TYBW, Fake kakura even SS when Uhonana was under it she thought it was a corpse doll and didn't know she was under a illusion and even if she knew it wouldn't help regradless. And the guidebook call Tsukuyomi a illusion, this wiki calls it a illusion, the naruto wiki calls it a illusion. And while yes it can manipulate time perception Kyōka can manipulate time too but probably not on the same scale as Tsukuyomi. But this is getting out of hand and away from the discussion post. As for that though if we are talking TYBW that is no longer is a concern because just looking at Aizen put your under Kyōka making it even more broken

 

[Kidkinsey]

Kyōka suigestu does have perception Manipulation idk what your talking about? That is also demonstrated multiple times ie TYBW, Fake kakura even SS when Uhonana was under it she thought it was a corpse doll and didn't know she was under a illusion and even if she knew it wouldn't help regradless. And the guidebook call Tsukuyomi a illusion, this wiki calls it a illusion, the naruto wiki calls it a illusion. And while yes it can manipulate time perception Kyōka can manipulate time too but probably not on the same scale as Tsukuyomi. But this is getting out of hand and away from the discussion post. As for that though if we are talking TYBW that is no longer is a concern because just looking at Aizen put your under Kyōka making it even more broken

I know i said KS is perception manip, and i know its an illusion but he makes it in your mind so thats why it couldn't be reflected itachi and kuranei style, or it can as simple as itachis inducment>kakashis resistances Also aizen still has to release it you arent caught once u look at him

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

So, the strength of a Sharingan is definitely important in determining the strength of the genjutsu it can resist, just like how the strength of one's mindhax resistance is put up against the strength of the mindhax being used against them in other verses.

As concerns Itachi using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, Kakashi hadn't figured out he had his own Mangekyou Sharingan by that point in time, or maybe he could have countered it, too. Sasuke, meanwhile, was able to break out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi with a regular 3-tomoe Sharingan and a slight influx of Sage chakra via the Curse Mark.

KS, meanwhile, has never been actively used against someone who resists planet-level mindhax like IT, and Sasuke's Rinnegan was able to protect him from IT.

 

[Potato74]

So the once instance KS was "broken out of" was by yhwach in a soul king enhanced form which is planetary - multi planetary. But this wouldn't be a good wage to gauge it though so as said we haven't seen someone with resistance to illusion go aganist it

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

It's stated on Yhwach's profile that if he'd had the Almighty active before Aizen used KS on him (when Aizen was in the chair), Yhwach would have been immune to it, for the record..

KS only stopped affecting him when Ichigo killed him, and Yhwach rewrote reality so that he didn't die.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

Aizen's Illusion had an imperfection in it before. I don't recall one in Tsuki.

 

[Kidkinsey]

what do u mean by imperfection?

 

[Kidkinsey]

So the once instance KS was "broken out of" was by yhwach in a soul king enhanced form which is planetary - multi planetary. But this wouldn't be a good wage to gauge it though so as said we haven't seen someone with resistance to illusion go aganist it

yeah ywach simply lacks resistance, even the bomb girl was confused by shinji shikai

 

[Potato74]

Yeah the verse doesn't use illusions too often with only two users being known for them and Shinji's is subpar at best while not being completely useless and Aizen's we are discussing. Though the point being noted of Aizen's always affecting the target of the illusion regardless of time and was how he was able to affect Yhwach even after activating the Almighty.

 

[Kidkinsey]

He had Him under it before he used the AM

 

[Potato74]

Yes

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

When Aizen had the Soul Society under his illusion, Unohana noticed something was off but did not say anything.

 

[Kidkinsey]

He even told shunsui that if he payed enough attention he would have noticed the differences

 

[Potato74]

Yea I mean to detect your under a illusion without resistance would be high intelligence and that's something that Shunsui is very well known for even being probably the top 10 smartest in Bleach.

 

[Ovrhide]

ywach was put into its effect AFTER aizen broke out. it is explained in chapter 684, as it shows a flashback of Ywach talking to fake ichigo when aizen was talking about putting him under effect. seems like KS can just mess with something like that.

 

[Potato74]

Yea Aizen started that his complete hypnosis can interfere with his Almighty powers. Or at least that was his assumption