As Nodt madness manipulation type 2 and Perception Manipulation addition

[Valeska24]

hello everyone, again As Nodt and again me

MADNESS MANIPULATION TYPE 2
First of all, we know that the fear instilled from Äs Nodt's thorns left the shinagami screaming before they died, but it can be said that this is not due to pain, but the fear loaded into their minds. We can also see this in Rukia (she was left screaming because of the things she saw before Byakuya came). We can also understand that it leaves an effect of madness, and since this attack is mental (things going through the victim's head cause him to go crazy) I am in favor of this being madness manipulation type 2

https://imgur.com/gallery/5yDQGVw

PERCEPTION MANIPULATION

As Nodt, you can clearly see that the perception of everyone who is exposed to his power is distorted. Byakuya saw hallucinations in his head many times during the war, Rukia's death and the hallucination he saw during Nodt's speech, here I say his perception is distorted because while he was in the war, he saw Rukia's death in his eyes (even though there was nothing). comes and Nodt attacks Byakuya at this time and pierces his abdomen. Another example is that he feels as if insects are covering him, but such a thing is out of the question.

https://imgur.com/gallery/QsUqjnF

The same things are also present in the rukia vs Äs nodt battle. I can say that Rukia's perception was distorted many times (like Byakuya, she felt like she was covered in insects and Byakuya, Orihime and Ichigo's deaths came to her mind even though they were not).

https://imgur.com/gallery/gLit78O

 

[ZetsuEarly0]

Agree (It seems logical)

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't agree with madness manipulation type 2. There's no evidence of it in the video.

 

[Valeska24]

I don't agree with madness manipulation type 2. There's no evidence of it in the video.

First of all, thank you for your input. As for the video,

We hear shinagami scream after being hit with an arrow. Considering Nodt's feature, I think this is madness type 2. This is also present in the rukia example I gave.

Also, I assume you agree with me about perception manipulation?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, I assume you agree with me about perception manipulation?

It seems fine for me

 

[Valeska24]

It seems fine for me

So now do you agree with both?

 

[Benimōru]

I have to agree with Dread.

There is a difference between instilling fear in someone and driving them to madness.

 

[Valeska24]

I have to agree with Dread.

There is a difference between instilling fear in someone and driving them to madness.

I think you didn't understand me, we are not talking about a simple fear here, I am talking about the effect of a mind-based attack on Shinigami, and this is the explanation of type 2.

2: Mind Manipulation: Users of this type rely upon directly interacting with the minds of their victims, utilizing various forms of mental attacks to drive them insane.

This is directly from vsbw's madness manipulation page, and what I'm arguing for is that it drives its victims crazy in various ways by making a fear-based attack on the mind.

 

[Benimōru]

2: Mind Manipulation: Users of this type rely upon directly interacting with the minds of their victims, utilizing various forms of mental attacks to drive them insane.

Just making them scream out of fear is not driving them to madness

 

[ImmortalDread]

I doubt he's actively inducing madness or craziness in their minds. Instead, I believe their deteriorating mental state is a result of the passive fear they experience in his presence. It's crucial to note that these reactions are simply a result of him instilling fear, without any specific additional manipulations. The explanation (he later explained what is his ability) shouldn't be disregarded, and we shouldn't grant him abilities without a logical basis or any implicated evidence of such.

Those who are more vulnerable eventually succumb to madness. However, there's no clear evidence or statement indicating that he has the ability to directly manipulate or interact with the victims' minds.

You're drawing significant conclusions from the vague visual cues of As Nödt instilling fear in various ways.

And rest assured, I am well aware of the concept of manipulating madness in VSBW, so there's no need to worry about my understanding.

 

[Valeska24]

Just making them scream out of fear is not driving them to madness

Did you really infer that from what I said? I mean, I'm saying that he went crazy with fear. Also, as I said, it's more about what they see than fear (if you look at the scene before Rukia screams, you can find what I mean) because, as I said, he was exposed to As Nodt's fear manipulation before the hallucinations (this feature is already It is passive, I made this accepted in the previous CRT) You can also understand this from the fact that Rukia cannot feel emotions because her body is completely dead (her body is technically dead, but only her nerves are alive. What Nodt does is to play on these nerves).

https://imgur.com/gallery/Ws2h95X

 

[Valeska24]

And rest assured, I am well aware of the concept of manipulating madness in VSBW, so there's no need to worry about my understanding.

I did not claim such a thing, you can be sure of that. )

 

[Crobatman44]

I agree on Perception Manipulation (for as little as my agreement matters given how new i am),but i shakily Disagree to madness type 2,while it's possible(Specially cause Byakuya has Borderline Freak out and acts complety out of character in screaming and throwing himself at Äs Nödt swinging wildly which is very much not Byakuya).
I Don't think there's enough to 100% indicate it is.
EDIT:On a personal Level im super biased towards Äs Nödt(i really like him) so that may cloud my judgement.

 

[Valeska24]

I agree on Perception Manipulation (for as little as my agreement matters given how new i am),but i shakily Disagree to madness type 2,while it's possible(Specially cause Byakuya has Borderline Freak out and acts complety out of character in screaming and throwing himself at Äs Nödt swinging wildly which is very much not Byakuya).
I Don't think there's enough to 100% indicate it is.
EDIT:On a personal Level im super biased towards Äs Nödt(i really like him) so that may cloud my judgement.

Being new doesn't change anything bro, thank you for expressing your opinion. : )

 

[Duedate8898]

Perception looks fine for me, going to have to disagree with madness manipulation because the reactions shown are also just fair to have when faced with fear. We'd need more overt statements since the visuals and his current explanation for his power just leans towards this being how people react to his fear manipulation

 

[Hellscream]

I don't agree with madness manipulation type 2. There's no evidence of it in the video.

Says the one that thought As nodt should get acausality type 4

 

[Valeska24]

Perception looks fine for me, going to have to disagree with madness manipulation because the reactions shown are also just fair to have when faced with fear. We'd need more overt statements since the visuals and his current explanation for his power just leans towards this being how people react to his fear manipulation

Thanks for expressing your opinion.

Considering that it depends on emotion, maybe yes, you may be right for the first video I presented, but what I really need to mention here is that Rukia's body was completely dead in her fight with As Nodt and she could not feel the emotion of fear. I can say that this is more related to the things she sees in her mind.

 

[Burkiqwe]

I agree and following.

 

[Excellence616]

I agree with everything neutral on Madness Manipulation.

 

[Malekith]

I am neutral in relation to the manipulation of madness (But it is logical that being induced to constant fear has madness as a consequence). Otherwise I agree

 

[Valeska24]

I am neutral in relation to the manipulation of madness (But it is logical that being induced to constant fear has madness as a consequence). Otherwise I agree

I understand that you think that being constantly exposed to fear can cause insanity, so let me begin my answer.

Rukia Kuchiki states that she does not feel fear when she is exposed to fear manipulation in her first fight with As Nodt, her body is completely dead, she also states this herself.

Now let's talk about how this is related to madness type 2. When Rukia sees the tartar fora in their 2nd fight, she does not express any screams or crazy expressions. The only thing that happens is that she cannot move her body fully due to the fear penetrating her nerves, because she is kind of paralyzed because of fear.

And let's get into our main event (that is, the part where I defend that he is crazy).

Clearly, Rukia is screaming because of the hallucinations and unreal images that As Nodt shows her. As I said, this is entirely due to the things she sees in her mind and it fits exactly into the way Madness Type 2 works.

so yes rukia went crazy not because of fear but because of what she saw

Note: Don't worry, the manga scenes I will include do not conflict with the anime, they are just to make it more understandable.

 

[Crobatman44]

I understand that you think that being constantly exposed to fear can cause insanity, so let me begin my answer.

Rukia Kuchiki states that she does not feel fear when she is exposed to fear manipulation in her first fight with As Nodt, her body is completely dead, she also states this herself.

Now let's talk about how this is related to madness type 2. When Rukia sees the tartar fora in their 2nd fight, she does not express any screams or crazy expressions. The only thing that happens is that she cannot move her body fully due to the fear penetrating her nerves, because she is kind of paralyzed because of fear.

And let's get into our main event (that is, the part where I defend that he is crazy).

Clearly, Rukia is screaming because of the hallucinations and unreal images that As Nodt shows her. As I said, this is entirely due to the things she sees in her mind and it fits exactly into the way Madness Type 2 works.

so yes rukia went crazy not because of fear but because of what she saw

Note: Don't worry, the manga scenes I will include do not conflict with the anime, they are just to make it more understandable.

I would argue the anime makes it more blatant but that's mostly because the Voice actors went ham(in the sub haven't looked dub wise yet).
The scene is slighty different in the anime btw,instead of Just Blacked out eyes Byakuya,Ichigo and Orihime(no renji RIP) all shrivel up,decay and flies start pouring out and Cover Rukia.(just in case somewhat who looks at this thread but has only seen one of the manga/anime and not the other does not get confused)
(Your feet are cringe Rukia.)
EDIT:i won't derail by adding another comment so i'll just edit this one,like i said i mostly commented this so there was less chance of someone coming in having only seen the manga or anime being confused over the scene being different,that's all.

 

[Valeska24]

I would argue the anime makes it more blatant but that's mostly because the Voice actors went ham(in the sub haven't looked dub wise yet).
The scene is slighty different in the anime btw,instead of Just Blacked out eyes Byakuya,Ichigo and Orihime(no renji RIP) all shrivel up,decay and flies start pouring out and Cover Rukia.(just in case somewhat who looks at this thread but has only seen one of the manga/anime and not the other does not get confused)
(Your feet are cringe Rukia.)

This doesn't change anything, brother, what you say is just about making the scenes more detailed. Our topic here is how madness works on the characters.

 

[Duedate8898]

Thanks for expressing your opinion.

Considering that it depends on emotion, maybe yes, you may be right for the first video I presented, but what I really need to mention here is that Rukia's body was completely dead in her fight with As Nodt and she could not feel the emotion of fear. I can say that this is more related to the things she sees in her mind.

We just treat that as his fear hax having grown more powerful and now operating in a different manner, not as madness manipulation. He does have the statement of her mind being torn apart in the manga, but the anime changes it into her soul being torn apart by fear so I'm still iffy on it in that regard.

 

[CryptonBestDbFan]

I agree it seems logical.

 

[Valeska24]

We just treat that as his fear hax having grown more powerful and now operating in a different manner, not as madness manipulation. He does have the statement of her mind being torn apart in the manga, but the anime changes it into her soul being torn apart by fear so I'm still iffy on it in that regard.

I guess with Kubo's latest works, anime was being taken as more canon in vsbw. In this case, shouldn't we take the expressions in the anime as valid?

 

[Matrixxxx]

I agree.

 

[Valeska24]

Bump

 

[Wankstasosuke]

I agree.

 

[Wankstasosuke]

Just making them scream out of fear is not driving them to madness

Doesn't being under the influence of too much Fear cause people to go crazy after a while?

 

[Benimōru]

Doesn't being under the influence of too much Fear cause people to go crazy after a while?

Even if you assume that there is such a thing, it is just fear manipulation. Because what makes them angry is not playing with their minds (making mental attacks etc.) and instilling madness in them, as you have to do to gain type 2.

At least, this is my understanding.

 

[Valeska24]

Even if you assume that there is such a thing, it is just fear manipulation. Because what makes them angry is not playing with their minds (making mental attacks etc.) and instilling madness in them, as you have to do to gain type 2.

At least, this is my understanding.

man... I said these were not a reaction due to fear, but a reaction based on the hallucinations they had. I argue that Äs Nodt's ability is madness type 2 because of what they show them in their subconscious


Now understand what I mean and answer accordingly

 

[Wankstasosuke]

Even if you assume that there is such a thing, it is just fear manipulation. Because what makes them angry is not playing with their minds (making mental attacks etc.) and instilling madness in them, as you have to do to gain type 2.

At least, this is my understanding.

In fact, he does the fear manipulation that we're talking about through the mind, and since it's a mental attack, I think the insanity manipulation can fit type 2.

 

[Hellscream]

With what was shown, atleast a possibly for madness manip type 2 is warranted
So i agree

 

[Valeska24]

With what was shown, atleast a possibly for madness manip type 2 is warranted
So i agree

Yes, I think it's something that should be stated in the profile, at least "probably".

 

[DarkGrath]

PERCEPTION MANIPULATION

As Nodt, you can clearly see that the perception of everyone who is exposed to his power is distorted. Byakuya saw hallucinations in his head many times during the war, Rukia's death and the hallucination he saw during Nodt's speech, here I say his perception is distorted because while he was in the war, he saw Rukia's death in his eyes (even though there was nothing). comes and Nodt attacks Byakuya at this time and pierces his abdomen. Another example is that he feels as if insects are covering him, but such a thing is out of the question.

This seems fine.

MADNESS MANIPULATION TYPE 2
First of all, we know that the fear instilled from Äs Nodt's thorns left the shinagami screaming before they died, but it can be said that this is not due to pain, but the fear loaded into their minds. We can also see this in Rukia (she was left screaming because of the things she saw before Byakuya came). We can also understand that it leaves an effect of madness, and since this attack is mental (things going through the victim's head cause him to go crazy) I am in favor of this being madness manipulation type 2

I'm neutral on this. Even with the elaboration provided throughout the thread, it's not totally clear what the mechanism behind this phenomenon is - and this is very important to whether or not it qualifies as madness manipulation. I would rather leave this aspect to staff members who are more familiar with the series and thereby able to work off of more context.

 

[Valeska24]

This seems fine.


I'm neutral on this. Even with the elaboration provided throughout the thread, it's not totally clear what the mechanism behind this phenomenon is - and this is very important to whether or not it qualifies as madness manipulation. I would rather leave this aspect to staff members who are more familiar with the series and thereby able to work off of more context.

Can we at least state it as "probably madness manipulation" on his profile ?

 

[Hellscream]

2: Mind Manipulation: Users of this type rely upon directly interacting with the minds of their victims, utilizing various forms of mental attacks to drive them insane.

With what's shown, it doesn't mean because his schrift is called "Fear" that it doesn't have other capabilities such as the one posted above which is pretty much what he has shown during his fight, mentally attacking his opponent, destroying their mind and outright turning them insane / killing them
If it's not a concrete rating, i think it should warrant a possibly atleast

 

[Valeska24]

Since 48 hours have passed since CRT was opened, I think I can transfer the perception manipulation to yhwach and Äs Nodt's profile (also, I forgot to transfer the passive fear manipulation in CRT to yhwach's profile last time, I will do that too)

 

[Valeska24]

Okay, I transferred the change to Nödt's profile (I couldn't transfer it to Yhwach's profile yet because it was closed, but I will do it sometime). I think this can be closed.