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- 2,354
Might as well do this while the profiles are still being edited.
Before I begin this section, keep in mind that I am NOT trying to suggest Megami Tensei is "canon" to Fire Emblem, I cannot stress this enough. This is merely supporting evidence of Tier 1 that could make the rating less controversial to the verse.
Currently, we have characters from Tokyo Mirage Sessions such as Itsuki rated as Low 1-C. Said characters also appear in Fire Emblem Heroes, and can trade blows with the Heroes. Of course, this doesn't mean much by itself as like I said earlier, this goes against the site's crossover rules. However, it is a good supporting feat for the main Low 1-C feat I will go over next.
The Realm of Dreams is, as the name suggests, a world created by dreams.
The Realm of Dreams is also stated to have it's own flow of time.
This clearly shows that the Realm of Dreams is a separate world(s) that has it's own flow of time, ergo it is a Tier 2 structure. Though, honestly, this is just to provide context for the feat, as the Realm of Dreams is already accepted as being 2-A. Of course, this is nowhere near Tier 1 by itself, so I will go onto explain the different layers the Realm of Dreams has.
The Realm of Dreams has several layers, one of which is the Realm of Fantasy, the realm beneath the Realm of Dreams. Or as Peony describes it, it is the dream within the dream. Essentially, when one dreams in the Realm of Dreams, they end up in the Realm of Fantasy.
As seen here, the relationship between the Realm of Fantasy and Realm of Dreams is that the former is just a dream to the latter. In addition, it is described as being a "dream within a dream", and a realm "beneath" the other realm. This is a Reality/Fiction difference between the two realms, as the former is just a dream to the latter, ie, a lower level of existence.
We have established here that there exist layers within the Realm of Dreams. While this by itself is still just Tier 2, the next part will explain that their is a layer above the Realm of Dreams.
After killing Freyr, the Order of Heroes wake up from the Realm of Dreams. However, they actually did not wake up into the real world. Instead, they woke up into another dream.
As we established earlier, there is a reality fiction difference between the Realm of Fantasy, and the Realm of Dreams. That same relationship exists here, as the Realm of Dreams is just a dream to Kiran's Dream, the former of which is a Tier 2 structure. This is essentially the text-book definition of Low 1-C, as Kiran's Dream transcends the Realm of Dreams, a Tier 2 structure.
Though, this isn't a conventional dream. As Freyja states it, due to Kiran's unique existence, their dream is also a special kind of dream.
The reason I bring this up is to show that the Realm of Dreams is still the "main" setting of the cosmology, as most people who dream just end up in the Realm of Dreams. Kiran's Dream is just a special case, where a layer above the Realm of Dreams can exist. I want to prevent any confusion relating to the Realm of Dreams not being the "main" setting of the cosmology, and therefore not Tier 2. This also prevents any ordinary dream worlds from being scaled to Low 1-C, but I will go over scaling in the next section.
Also, the Realm of Dreams is not a realm below the Real World, but rather a separate plane of existence (It's referred to as Ljósálfheimr here), so It's not Tier 11.
Right away, this would scale to characters on Freyja's level and up, as even without Freyr's power, she can control half of the Realm of Dreams. So right away that includes a Book IV+ Alfonse, Sharena, Anna, Kiran, Veronica, Bruno, and Fjorm (In terms of our current character profiles).
As mentioned previously, since Kiran's Dream is a special kind of dream, normal dream worlds aren't Low 1-C, as most dream worlds are present within the Realm of Dreams, and not Kiran Dream. So no Low 1-C Tempest, or Azura.
Also, an argument could be made that it starts from Surtr's level. The reason being is that he is capable of destroying everything in the Nine Realms, including the Realm of Dreams.
The issue with this is that Kiran's Dream didn't exist up until the events of Book IV, so even if Surtr could destroy everything, it is unknown if he would be able to destroy Kiran's Dream as well. However, as it is prophesized in lore that the flames of Múspell (ie, Ragnarök) will eventually destroy everything, it would be odd if it wouldn't have been able to destroy Kiran's Dream World. So everyone from Surtr and up, but below Freyja should be given a "possibly Low 1-C" rating.
To properly list the ratings, we will need new keys for the characters, as the characters will only be Low 1-C post Book II. To give you an idea of what these keys would look like, here is Alfonse's new profile.
The realm has three layers, The Realm of Fantasy, The Realm of Dreams, and Kiran's Dream. The Realm of Fantasy being the lowest layer, and Kiran's Dream being the highest.
The Realm of Fantasy is viewed as a dream to The Realm of Dreams, and is stated to be the realm beneath, and embedded within the Realm of Dreams, which qualifies for R/F. This establishes a R/F relationship for the layers.
The Realm of Dreams is a Tier 2 Structure, as it exists as a parallel world to the "main" cosmology (ie, the Real World), rather than existing beneath it.
Kiran's Dream views the Realm of Dreams, a Tier 2 structure, as a dream, making it Tier 1.
This doesn't scale to normal dream worlds, due to Kiran's dream in particular being stated to be a special kind of dream. So people above Surtr, but below Freyja will be "possibly Low 1-C", but people on Freyja's level will be straight Low 1-C.
Agree: Elizhaa, Bernkastelll, Zencha9, CosmicWreck, XXKINGXX69, Tired_Author_21, lukewoesal007, Maverick_Zero_X
Neutral: Vietthai96 (Leaning towards disagree), Jibz, Luckyfun (Leaning towards agree), Ultra_instinct_issei, Planck69 (Leaning towards agree), DarkDragonMedeus, Colonel_Krukov (Says what is being suggested seems okay), Masterlight
Disagree:
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
Before I begin this section, keep in mind that I am NOT trying to suggest Megami Tensei is "canon" to Fire Emblem, I cannot stress this enough. This is merely supporting evidence of Tier 1 that could make the rating less controversial to the verse.
Currently, we have characters from Tokyo Mirage Sessions such as Itsuki rated as Low 1-C. Said characters also appear in Fire Emblem Heroes, and can trade blows with the Heroes. Of course, this doesn't mean much by itself as like I said earlier, this goes against the site's crossover rules. However, it is a good supporting feat for the main Low 1-C feat I will go over next.
The Realm of Dreams
The Realm of Dreams is, as the name suggests, a world created by dreams.
The Realm of Dreams is also stated to have it's own flow of time.
This clearly shows that the Realm of Dreams is a separate world(s) that has it's own flow of time, ergo it is a Tier 2 structure. Though, honestly, this is just to provide context for the feat, as the Realm of Dreams is already accepted as being 2-A. Of course, this is nowhere near Tier 1 by itself, so I will go onto explain the different layers the Realm of Dreams has.
The Realm of Fantasy
The Realm of Dreams has several layers, one of which is the Realm of Fantasy, the realm beneath the Realm of Dreams. Or as Peony describes it, it is the dream within the dream. Essentially, when one dreams in the Realm of Dreams, they end up in the Realm of Fantasy.
As seen here, the relationship between the Realm of Fantasy and Realm of Dreams is that the former is just a dream to the latter. In addition, it is described as being a "dream within a dream", and a realm "beneath" the other realm. This is a Reality/Fiction difference between the two realms, as the former is just a dream to the latter, ie, a lower level of existence.
We have established here that there exist layers within the Realm of Dreams. While this by itself is still just Tier 2, the next part will explain that their is a layer above the Realm of Dreams.
Kiran's Dream
After killing Freyr, the Order of Heroes wake up from the Realm of Dreams. However, they actually did not wake up into the real world. Instead, they woke up into another dream.
As we established earlier, there is a reality fiction difference between the Realm of Fantasy, and the Realm of Dreams. That same relationship exists here, as the Realm of Dreams is just a dream to Kiran's Dream, the former of which is a Tier 2 structure. This is essentially the text-book definition of Low 1-C, as Kiran's Dream transcends the Realm of Dreams, a Tier 2 structure.
Though, this isn't a conventional dream. As Freyja states it, due to Kiran's unique existence, their dream is also a special kind of dream.
The reason I bring this up is to show that the Realm of Dreams is still the "main" setting of the cosmology, as most people who dream just end up in the Realm of Dreams. Kiran's Dream is just a special case, where a layer above the Realm of Dreams can exist. I want to prevent any confusion relating to the Realm of Dreams not being the "main" setting of the cosmology, and therefore not Tier 2. This also prevents any ordinary dream worlds from being scaled to Low 1-C, but I will go over scaling in the next section.
Also, the Realm of Dreams is not a realm below the Real World, but rather a separate plane of existence (It's referred to as Ljósálfheimr here), so It's not Tier 11.
Who This Scales To + New Keys
Right away, this would scale to characters on Freyja's level and up, as even without Freyr's power, she can control half of the Realm of Dreams. So right away that includes a Book IV+ Alfonse, Sharena, Anna, Kiran, Veronica, Bruno, and Fjorm (In terms of our current character profiles).
As mentioned previously, since Kiran's Dream is a special kind of dream, normal dream worlds aren't Low 1-C, as most dream worlds are present within the Realm of Dreams, and not Kiran Dream. So no Low 1-C Tempest, or Azura.
Also, an argument could be made that it starts from Surtr's level. The reason being is that he is capable of destroying everything in the Nine Realms, including the Realm of Dreams.
The issue with this is that Kiran's Dream didn't exist up until the events of Book IV, so even if Surtr could destroy everything, it is unknown if he would be able to destroy Kiran's Dream as well. However, as it is prophesized in lore that the flames of Múspell (ie, Ragnarök) will eventually destroy everything, it would be odd if it wouldn't have been able to destroy Kiran's Dream World. So everyone from Surtr and up, but below Freyja should be given a "possibly Low 1-C" rating.
To properly list the ratings, we will need new keys for the characters, as the characters will only be Low 1-C post Book II. To give you an idea of what these keys would look like, here is Alfonse's new profile.
TL;DR
The realm has three layers, The Realm of Fantasy, The Realm of Dreams, and Kiran's Dream. The Realm of Fantasy being the lowest layer, and Kiran's Dream being the highest.
The Realm of Fantasy is viewed as a dream to The Realm of Dreams, and is stated to be the realm beneath, and embedded within the Realm of Dreams, which qualifies for R/F. This establishes a R/F relationship for the layers.
The Realm of Dreams is a Tier 2 Structure, as it exists as a parallel world to the "main" cosmology (ie, the Real World), rather than existing beneath it.
Kiran's Dream views the Realm of Dreams, a Tier 2 structure, as a dream, making it Tier 1.
This doesn't scale to normal dream worlds, due to Kiran's dream in particular being stated to be a special kind of dream. So people above Surtr, but below Freyja will be "possibly Low 1-C", but people on Freyja's level will be straight Low 1-C.
Vote Count
Agree: Elizhaa, Bernkastelll, Zencha9, CosmicWreck, XXKINGXX69, Tired_Author_21, lukewoesal007, Maverick_Zero_X
Neutral: Vietthai96 (Leaning towards disagree), Jibz, Luckyfun (Leaning towards agree), Ultra_instinct_issei, Planck69 (Leaning towards agree), DarkDragonMedeus, Colonel_Krukov (Says what is being suggested seems okay), Masterlight
Disagree:
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