Low 1-C Upgrade for Fire Emblem Heroes

[TheGatememer]

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[TheGatememer]

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[TheGatememer]

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[TheGatememer]

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[Elizhaa]

@Ultima_Reality, what do you think about the topic?

 

[TheGatememer]

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[TheGatememer]

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[CosmicWreck]

I disagree, not because I believe you are wrong but because I am not seeing enough evidence for it.

I don't know the verse and there is no scan to explain the relationship these worlds have with the real world or, to be more specific, why there being the Realm of Fantasy<the Realm of Dreams is any less viable than the claim that the Realm of Dreams<Kierans Dream World<Real world is possible especially considering the only scan that hints as such claims that this world is itself a dream.

Time existing doesn't mean it is tier 2 structure. I/O and SCP (maybe Umineko too) all have layers with time and other dimensions as well as cosmological structures, but are also inferior to these structures by the same degrees of infinities/realness thus making them tier 11 at base. I don't see any evidence this case isn't occurring here.

 

[TheGatememer]

I disagree, not because I believe you are wrong but because I am not seeing enough evidence for it.

I don't know the verse and there is no scan to explain the relationship these worlds have with the real world or, to be more specific, why there being the Realm of Fantasy<the Realm of Dreams is any less viable than the claim that the Realm of Dreams<Kierans Dream World<Real world is possible especially considering the only scan that hints as such claims that this world is itself a dream.

Time existing doesn't mean it is tier 2 structure. I/O and SCP (maybe Umineko too) all have layers with time and other dimensions as well as cosmological structures, but are also inferior to these structures by the same degrees of infinities/realness thus making them tier 11 at base. I don't see any evidence this case isn't occurring here.

That argument is under the assumption that the Realm of Dreams is beneath the Real World, when it's not. The Realm of Dreams (or Ljósálfheimr) is one of the Nine Realms within the multiverse. Rather than it being a plane below the Real World, it exists as a separate plane of existence. In comparison, The Realm of Fantasy, The Realm of Dreams, and Kiran's Dream all exist within the same plane, and are embedded within each other.

 

[CosmicWreck]

The link doesn't work.

Also, a brief scouring of the internet tells me Ljosalfheimr was falling apart because people weren't dreaming which doesn't make sense if they were separate planes of existence. I tried to look at the Fire Emblem vsbattles profiles and I didn't see the nine realms even being mentioned.

It remains a tentative disagreement from me.

 

[TheGatememer]

The link doesn't work.

My bad, I fixed it.

Also, a brief scouring of the internet tells me Ljosalfheimr was falling apart because people weren't dreaming which doesn't make sense if they were separate planes of existence.

That doesn't mean that they are on the same plane, it just means that the Realm of Dreams is reliant on dreams to keep existing. The dreams can come from anywhere.

 

[CosmicWreck]

I agree to the upgrade then.

If Kiran's dream is that much of an outlier to the cosmology of the Realm of Dreams though, it doesn't make sense for Surtr to scale to it.

 

[TheGatememer]

I agree to the upgrade then.

If Kiran's dream is that much of an outlier to the cosmology of the Realm of Dreams though, it doesn't make sense for Surtr to scale to it.

I don't mind leaving Surtr out of the scaling for now, we could put that off to a later CRT.

 

[Masterlight]

Low c-1 is 5-6d correct? Is there anyone or anything in fe who is at least 5d?

 

[TheGatememer]

Low c-1 is 5-6d correct? Is there anyone or anything in fe who is at least 5d?

People who scale to Freyja and above will be Low 1-C

 

[Masterlight]

People who scale to Freyja and above will be Low 1-C

Freyja is low 1-C? How?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

It wouldn't necessarily be that any character is 5-D/6-D, but rather that the cosmology reaches that point

Freyja and Freyr would then just scale to it

 

[TheGatememer]

Yea what JSW said. In addition, Book IV+ Alfonse, Sharena, Anna, Kiran, Bruno, Veronica, and Fjorm would scale in terms of our current profiles.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I mean, does anything really imply that the Order has gotten stronger throughout the story?

Even then there would be ways to backscale to other books and whatnot

 

[TheGatememer]

There are some things that indicate they got stronger as they progressed. For example, in the prologue, they considered Xander a threat, and by the end of Book I, they were able to defeat Ike, who is obviously far superior to Xander.

During Book III, Surtr acknowledges that he stands no chance against Hel, and Gustav in his prime barely survived his fight against her. Alfonse early on in Book III considers Gustav to be much stronger than he is, yet by the end of the book Alfonse was able to trade blows with Hel, and even overpower her.

Kiran by the end of Book V is also comparable to, if not stronger than Thórr, as she is blown away by their power, despite her Mjölnir being considered stronger than Breidablik back in Book V. Obviously Kiran is stronger than everyone else in the Order, but it shows the Order definitely has gotten stronger overtime.

It wouldn't make much sense to scale Book I characters to Low 1-C, as there isn't any evidence suggesting they are at all comparable to Freyja that early on in the story. It would also mess up the scaling, as characters far weaker than Marth, let alone Ike, Surtr, or Freyja, would scale to Low 1-C. Low 1-C Wrys would be hilarious though

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Okay, bit by bit

During Book III, Surtr acknowledges that he stands no chance against Hel, and Gustav in his prime barely survived his fight against her. Alfonse early on in Book III considers Gustav to be much stronger than he is, yet by the end of the book Alfonse was able to trade blows with Hel, and even overpower her.

They literally can't kill Hel, that was was canonically the point, Gustav even states that Hel's strength isn't that big of a deal. As soon as they were able to bypass her immortality they went straight into killing her

Kiran by the end of Book V is also comparable to, if not stronger than Thórr, as she is blown away by their power, despite her Mjölnir being considered stronger than Breidablik back in Book V. Obviously Kiran is stronger than everyone else in the Order, but it shows the Order definitely has gotten stronger overtime.

???????? Don't quite recall this one, also, we should keep in mind that Thórr herself is normally unable to be summoned by the Breidablik and only allowed herself to after the end of Ice & Flame. Also, I kinda doubt Kiran is actually >>> everyone else in terms of AP/Dura

It wouldn't make much sense to scale Book I characters to Low 1-C, as there isn't any evidence suggesting they are at all comparable to Freyja that early on in the story. It would also mess up the scaling, as characters far weaker than Marth, let alone Ike, Surtr, or Freyja, would scale to Low 1-C. Low 1-C Wrys would be hilarious though

Nothing really implied Base Freyja being all powerful in comparison to the Order, granted she's probably stronger than most of the cast (I'd argue most Book villains are above the main cast to some extent), but nothing really implies that Alfonse gains an entire dimension or two's strength in-between books

 

[TheGatememer]

Okay, bit by bit

They literally can't kill Hel, that was was canonically the point, Gustav even states that Hel's strength isn't that big of a deal. As soon as they were able to bypass her immortality they went straight into killing her

This is not the case with Fafnir or Surtr where the Order legit can't even harm them. Hel's case is different, since while they do have Immortality, they don't have the same damage-reduction invulnerability the former does, so she can still be harmed, just not killed. Kiran was the only one that could negate her Immortality, and actually kill her.

???????? Don't quite recall this one, also, we should keep in mind that Thórr herself is normally unable to be summoned by the Breidablik and only allowed herself to after the end of Ice & Flame. Also, I kinda doubt Kiran is actually >>> everyone else in terms of AP/Dura

I don't think that has anything to do with AP. Here are her quotes:

"What incredible new strength... Is this the work of [Summoner]?"

"Thank you. A summoner's power is even greater than I had imagined..."

"You and that weapon you carry are not part of this world as it was designed.
And we cannot abide a mortal with power enough to challenge the gods."

And here is Eitri's quote during Book V:

Ah, Summoner, it must be wonderful
for you, the one solitary person to be
chosen by the divine weapon...
If I had power like that, ohh...
I could create a weapon so fine
it would rival Thórr's Mjölnir!

Pent has also stated that Kiran's strength will be instrumental in taking down the secret foe behind everything, ie, Alfaðör.

Nothing really implied Base Freyja being all powerful in comparison to the Order, granted she's probably stronger than most of the cast (I'd argue most Book villains are above the main cast to some extent), but nothing really implies that Alfonse gains an entire dimension or two's strength in-between books

To be blunt, this is an RPG game so power ups like that aren't unheard of. And as I mentioned before, it wouldn't make sense for someone like Xander to scale to Low 1-C, when Order has consistently gotten stronger throughout Book I, and the feat isn't even for another 3-4 Books. Though, on the contrary, Xander could become an exception, as he's the only one with any story relevance.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

This is not the case with Fafnir or Surtr where the Order legit can't even harm them

They were invulnerable, their books literally had the cast spend the entire time finding a way to bypass it before having them immediately get defeated afterwards (though Fafnir and Surtr should definitely upscale from the groups they fought)

 

[TheGatememer]

They were invulnerable, their books literally had the cast spend the entire time finding a way to bypass it before having them immediately get defeated afterwards (though Fafnir and Surtr should definitely upscale from the groups they fought)

Sorry, meant that Hel’s case wasn’t like Fafnir’s or Surtr’s in the sense that the two were invulnerable, while Hel wasn’t.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

But yeah, Surtr/Hel/Fafnir basically ran on the same mechanics ("Oh no, we can't kill them!" "Surely we can obtain the mcguffin!" and then they spend like 6 months searching for the mcguffin)

 

[TheGatememer]

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[XXKINGXX69]

agree

 

[Sniper670]

Check if Ant is interested in this thread

 

[TheGatememer]

Check if Ant is interested in this thread

I doubt he would be interested. I already bumped my thread numerous times on the CRT Promotion Thread