Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

[Regidian]

It would send her back to a level deeper than Shiki's nonexistence, though I'm pretty sure Kinzo beats Jill and John because of the truths at least. So he deserves a spot there.

I don't know? They can only really do that when the Truths are involved, it's very clear these guys aren't reacting at immeasurable speeds normally.

It is even possible? Or have it show it to able to do that with her level of NEP 2?

 

[Jinsye]

It is even possible? Or have it show it to able to do that with her level of NEP 2?

Unless she's nonexistent on a level farther than a 1-A+ void, then it's possible.

 

[Regidian]

For how much i remember NEP 2 have nothing to do with the tier

 

[Jinsye]

I mean it's the void existing beyond an infinite layer of structures that completely supersede an infinite hierarchy of dimensions. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to say Shiki is outside of that.

 

[Lapsad]

Does the void is non-existence deeper than even conceptual level ? because of shiki NEP > NEP type 2

 

[Regidian]

I mean it's the void existing beyond an infinite layer of structures that completely supersede an infinite hierarchy of dimensions. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to say Shiki is outside of that.

Like i tell NEP 2 shouldn't have anything to do with tier (like a 1-B who has NEP 2 shouldn't have a higher NEP2 just because of his tier as far i remember)


Hope a staff can answer and tell me if i wrong

 

[PsychoWarper]

I don't know? They can only really do that when the Truths are involved, it's very clear these guys aren't reacting at immeasurable speeds normally. Either that or Truths prevent them from attacking before they can successfully attempt to do so. You can't attack someone who's using the truths though.

So maybe something like “Immeasurable Combat Speed with Truths” or something like that?

 

[John985]

Someone said it before, if you dont have any feat of affecting NEP2 then its NLF to assume that they can.

I dont think any I/O or DC characters have NEP type 2

 

[Jinsye]

Someone said it before, if you dont have any feat of affecting NEP2 then its NLF to assume that they can.

I dont think any I/O or DC characters have NEP type 2

I mean they do, every single character in Umineko does.

It's just that "being nonexistent to nonexistents" doesn't really make much sense to me as to how it can be beyond "being nonexistent on such a scale that it's beyond a 1-A+ structure".

 

[John985]

Umineko characters have NEP2, but not in I/O, DC or John Taylor.

 

[Regidian]

I mean they do, every single character in Umineko does.

It's just that "being nonexistent to nonexistents" doesn't really make much sense to me as to how it can be beyond "being nonexistent on such a scale that it's beyond a 1-A+ structure".

Well i just tell what people have tell me so it's why i hope oblivion or a other staff can help or we do a match and ask in same time lol

 

[Lapsad]

Make the thread to ask them

 

[Lapsad]

I mean they do, every single character in Umineko does.

It's just that "being nonexistent to nonexistents" doesn't really make much sense to me as to how it can be beyond "being nonexistent on such a scale that it's beyond a 1-A+ structure".

I think it should be scaling for you potency of EE or range not NEP type 2 , plus you can have normal 1-A EE but still can't erase thing on conceptual level

 

[InfiniteDay]

This comes down to if Truths can outspeed passives.

For one, passives are passives regardless, but Truths from what I have been told seem to have Immeasurable reaction/combat speed, and I don't see how the passives will get past that.

 

[00potato]

I mean truths still need to be activated by the non-immeasurable.
Even then since speed is equal for most of these the spot would be Umineko (speed unequal.)

 

[Regidian]

This comes down to if Truths can outspeed passives.

For one, passives are passives regardless, but Truths from what I have been told seem to have Immeasurable reaction/combat speed, and I don't see how the passives will get past that.

The truth need to be actived for having this speed and void shiki well should be immeasurable (+ in this thread we are in speed equal no?)

 

[XDragnoir]

It's just that "being nonexistent to nonexistents" doesn't really make much sense to me as to how it can be beyond "being nonexistent on such a scale that it's beyond a 1-A+ structure".

You are probably with the previous system in your mind, where 1A was beyond existence and non-existence and thus could affect both, but this doesn't work anymore.

 

[Eganergo]

Waiting for the match. OvO

 

[Regidian]

A guy who know umineko tell me that blue truth is not even a offensive ability how this will deal with Void shiki if he was able to affect her?

Have see the oblivion think but don't know how that work

 

[Elizhaa]

You are probably with the previous system in your mind, where 1A was beyond existence and non-existence and thus could affect both, but this doesn't work anymore.

I mean higher-dimensional ability to an associated character can bypass NEP Type 2 because they still exist at a higher layer; it was literally a thing was to agree to affect them.
I recalled Kaltias made the argument that Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 could affect them; noted, I think it was before the definition of NEP Type 2 changed which before I vehemently disagreed with as the earlier definition make it sounds it was only applicable characters like Tier 0 characters but I guess there is a greater basis for the argument now; the original thread is here.

I never recalled a thread about what I needed to affect Transdual character; given from what saw, I believe it was largely agreed that conceptual manipulation type 2 was enough.

 

[Regidian]

I mean higher-dimensional ability to an associated character can bypass NEP Type 2 because they still exist at a higher layer; it was literally a thing was to agree to affect them.
I recalled Kaltias made the argument that Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 could affect them; noted, I think it was before the definition of NEP Type 2 changed which before I vehemently disagreed with as the earlier definition make it sounds it was only applicable characters like Tier 0 characters but I guess there is a greater basis for the argument now; the original thread is here.

I never recalled a thread about what I needed to affect Transdual character; given from what saw, I believe it was largely agreed that conceptual manipulation type 2 was enough.

The transduality of Void shiki is over concept type 2 so weird if a type 2 concept can affect her, her NEP 2 too

 

[Elizhaa]

A guy who know umineko tell me that blue truth is not even a offensive ability how this will deal with Void shiki if he was able to affect her?

Have see the oblivion think but don't know how that work

It should be the opposite; it can work as an offensive ability which is described in Umineko's fight; this page has some abilities of Truths. I would argue blue truth is enough,

 

[Regidian]

The transduality of Void shiki is over concept type 2 so weird if a type 2 concept can affect her, her NEP 2 too

^ And for that ?

And can you tell if kinzo in his 9-B key need to activate the truth and if this truth is able to be faster than passif in speed equal?

 

[Elizhaa]

The transduality of Void shiki is over concept type 2 so weird if a type 2 concept can affect her, her NEP 2 too

To be fair, NEP/Transduality Type 2 would still be limited by higher-dimensionality. Higher-dimensional/higher transcendent beings or abilities should have not an issue affecting them. In any case, truths look to be type 1 concepts and already surpassed Shiki's abilities dimensionality.

 

[Regidian]

To be fair, NEP/Transduality Type 2 would still be limited by higher-dimensionality. Higher-dimensional/higher transcendent beings or abilities should have not an issue affecting them. In any case, truths look to be type 1 concepts and already surpassed Shiki's abilities dimensionality.

For the 1 part many of the staff i have see or thread have see tell the contrary( for the NEP 2) at least, mmm i will make a thread for re ask now



But he still need to activate it and in speed equal it shouldn't be above the passif in speed no?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I mean higher-dimensional ability to an associated character can bypass NEP Type 2 because they still exist at a higher layer; it was literally a thing was to agree to affect them.

Wasn't this how old stuff were treated? Being able to affect intangible or non existent guy has nothing to do with being stronger. Just like how Higher D abilities doesn't beat Regeneration of lower beings.

 

[Lapsad]

I mean higher-dimensional ability to an associated character can bypass NEP Type 2 because they still exist at a higher layer; it was literally a thing was to agree to affect them.
I recalled Kaltias made the argument that Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 could affect them; noted, I think it was before the definition of NEP Type 2 changed which before I vehemently disagreed with as the earlier definition make it sounds it was only applicable characters like Tier 0 characters but I guess there is a greater basis for the argument now; the original thread is here.

I never recalled a thread about what I needed to affect Transdual character; given from what saw, I believe it was largely agreed that conceptual manipulation type 2 was enough.

This is make me confuse how they exist on higher layer ? 4-D NEP type 2 is still only in 4-D place or you have portrayed it like author and fiction ?

 

[Eganergo]

This is about Beyond-Dimensional Exixtance though, since we're talking about 1A, and type 0 already talks about NeP (unsure which type).

 

[Regidian]

I have ask, hope staff will answer lol

 

[PsychoWarper]

I feel like there should be an actual thread made about NEP Type 2 vs Higher Dimensional Stuff should be made instead of continuing to clog this thread.

 

[Eganergo]

Should've make the match instead.

 

[Regidian]

Should've make the match instead.

I will do it even after this still the thing of passive vs truth activation in speed equal/without lol

 

[Regidian]

The thread

https://vsbattles.com/threads/can-higher-dimmensionnal-being-power-can-affect-nep-2-and-transduality-type-2.111117/

 

[Elizhaa]

Wasn't this how old stuff were treated? Being able to affect intangible or non existent guy has nothing to do with being stronger. Just like how Higher D abilities doesn't beat Regeneration of lower beings.

Wasn't this how old stuff were treated? Not necessarly.

Being able to affect intangible or non existent guy has nothing to do with being stronger.

• I never said stronger; I said transcendence like higher-dimensionality; For the higher being, lower beings would something like fictional.

Just like how Higher D abilities doesn't beat Regeneration of lower beings.

• Regeneration like High-Godly didn't change because of the tiering revision, from what I recalled; it changes because new standards were set up, in short.

 

[Elizhaa]

I will do it even after this still the thing of passive vs truth activation in speed equal/without lol

What passive?

 

[Regidian]

What passive?

Passive of void shiki

Have ask if she can passive Kinzo (9-B key) before he can activate blue truth in speed equal and without



And she have passive conceptual erasure as the root if you touch it and all after she have all the other passive of the verse so really many

 

[XDragnoir]

Just like how Higher D abilities doesn't beat Regeneration of lower beings.

• Regeneration like High-Godly didn't change because of the tiering revision, from what I recalled; it changes because new standards were set up, in short.

High-Godly and NEP2 are the same thing (conceptual erasure), if you agree Higher D doesn't affect HG then you agree it doesn't affect NEP2.

 

[Elizhaa]

High-Godly and NEP2 are the same thing (conceptual erasure), if you agree Higher D doesn't affect HG then you agree it doesn't affect NEP2.

I am pretty sure the topic never stated that Higher-dimensional being "can't affect" High-Godly, in general; I think it was something about killing them, in conext. It would be a false analogy for the comparison of the abilities, in my view. I think the current topic is basically would higher-dimensional or transcendental beings, in general, have NPI with type 2 NEP beings and the like.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Passive of void shiki

Have ask if she can passive Kinzo (9-B key) before he can activate blue truth in speed equal and without



And she have passive conceptual erasure as the root if you touch it and all after she have all the other passive of the verse so really many

Except no she doesn't, Void Shiki is an avatar for the Root, she doesn't have all of it's propeties. Otherwise, Mikiya would have died when they meet.

As for Oblivion: it's far more nonexistant than the Root lol. And i mean like, lIterally infinitely more. It's the last layer before you reach the Kingdom of God, and infinitely more nonexistant than a NEP 2 void.

 

[Regidian]

Except no she doesn't, Void Shiki is an avatar for the Root, she doesn't have all of it's propeties. Otherwise, Mikiya would have died when they meet.

As for Oblivion: it's far more nonexistant than the Root lol. And i mean like, lIterally infinitely more. It's the last layer before you reach the Kingdom of God, and infinitely more nonexistant than a NEP 2 void.

she does, passive can be disable normaly if you have control over them and for the erasure existance he would have need to touch the true her not the body of shiki ryougi