then it wouldn't be wod without the smurfs
Cus the other guys have other things besides fate manip at their disposal. They can literally say "stop" and it'll be a win condition cus Kumoko will be incapable of doing anything after that.Kumoko beat Edelweiss when they were both High 6-A. Why would she lose against those other guys?
Yeah, he's getting there. He's got the type 4 down, all he needs is affecting type 4.Also, Han now officially operates outside cause and effect, making precognition or causality manip useless against him, and making his absolute abilities (paralysis; fist that always lands regardless of spatial manip, distance or what else; enslaving mindhax; healing; etc.) be enforced by causality manipulation.
Not quite Rakudai yet, but getting there.
That's how all good things start.I love how Rakudai literally became top 5 material cus of a single plot device that ended up getting out of hand.
Doubt that will work, because of clones outside of range. You can make a match if you want, though.Cus the other guys have other things besides fate manip at their disposal. They can literally say "stop" and it'll be a win condition cus Kumoko will be incapable of doing anything after that.
Back then Desperado passives were just "can you deal with fear" and i don't remember the result, but Kumoko did have some arguments going for her. Now desperados can do more. Edel can do more than she could before and Nene and Xiaoli can do even more than her.
She can't or doesn't give manual commands to the clones anymore or, IIRC, her condition drops below a certain threshold. That would be what qualifies as incapacitated.Define incapacitated though. Cus it can have different definitions when comparing our version of "incap" to their version of incap.
wod = World of Darkness? WTF? Since when they have 7As?
Wasn't there a girl who was physically High 1-A but had the ap of a 7-A?Eh, Dies Irae's 7-A characters wouldn't be able to beat WoD probably, however, Kajiri Kamui Kagura has 7-As that are pretty much High 1-A in nearly every way.
Because the Vast majority agree with the proposals and you are the only disagreeing until you gived up.Tfw i leave the DMC thread and the 3 layers of regeneration negation and resistance to it from circular scaling gets accepted.
WTF? Nero is part demon he is acausal too.Also why does Dante resist "fate hax that works on type 4 acausals like nero" when Nero ain't even acausal?
Neither dante nor Nero have type 4 acausality on their profiles.WTF? Nero is part demon he is acausal too.
Literally time can pass slower or faster depending on where you're atDifferent flow of time
A specific demon that is actually a god tier of the verseDemons are stated to exist beyond the flow of time
Self explanatoryResists fate hax
Has there been a sudden influx of smurfs?With all the higher D stuff, not sure how balanced it would be, but I guess I could bite.
QM is at least hard to kill if nothing else. Han's new causality manip would probably help as well, though I doubt he can make it.
Nah fam we really don't need that.Looks like we may need another 7-A Tourni since WoD has decided to show up fashionably late.
Yes, exactly. That's exactly what that means.You operates on a higher form of causality?
Recent estimations say that i've explained this roughly 10'000 times already. So im not about to do it again.Acausality type 4 means operates on irregular system if Rakudai got that via "transcends fate" statement it could even be a hyperbole since fate manipulator in the series cannot affect them, in fact if you take that whole transcends fate statement literally means there's a contradiction since they also got "desperados can decided their own fate" statement, instead of a form of acausality they should've get straight resistance.
Yeah i know what type 5 and 4 are, but Rakudai does not fit either, if normal causality is system A, type 4 is system B and 5 is no system at all, Rakudai is A+ due to being a higher order and not just a different order, so i really think there should be another type where these characters could be placed.Type 5 is being so completely cut off from Cause and Effect that you can't be affected by anything,
It's actually more like B+. Cus a system transcending another still means it's another system of causality.Yeah i know what type 5 and 4 are, but Rakudai does not fit either, if normal causality is system A, type 4 is system B and 5 is no system at all, Rakudai is A+ due to being a higher order and not just a different order, so i really think there should be another type where these characters could be placed.
it clearly does not because Rakudai is the only verse i know (that does not have higher dimensions) where affecting a type 4 is a feat that bypass all forms of resistance.Basically, they can describe themself as transcending Causality or existing on a higher-order of Casualty, but if they don't have the feats to match being completely outside Cause and Effect then they are not getting Type 5, and they shouldn't get another Type because Type 4 fits them perfectly based on the feats shown.
And DMC is the only verse where being hit by AZ is still listed as resistance to AZ despite the standard changing long ago.it clearly does not because Rakudai is the only verse i know (that does not have higher dimensions) where affecting a type 4 is a feat that bypass all forms of resistance.
I disagree, that's like saying erasing a non-existent allows to bypass all non-smurf resistances to EE, type 4 or in other words system B isn't stronger, it is just a irregular system and thus can't be affected by regular causality hax.Eh no, affecting a Type 4 allowing them to bypass Fate related resistance is a thing of this Wiki and would be given to any Fate/Causality Manipulator in fiction that shows feats of affecting a Type 4, pretty sure several other verses do have such frats and are treated as such by the Wiki.
You do realize how false this equivalency is right?I disagree, that's like saying erasing a non-existent allows to bypass all non-smurf resistances to EE, type 4 or in other words system B isn't stronger, it is just a irregular system and thus can't be affected by regular causality hax.
Okay, so there is "someone who transcends time" and "someone who follows a different flow of time", change "time" with "causality" and we have two different things that are both under type 4 acausality when they could be their own types.You do realize how false this equivalency is right?
A more fair example would be "If you time hax someone who transcends time" that's more impressive than normal time hax.
they both abide under different systems just one is budget type 5 and the other one is a just working and abiding and working by a system that is adjacent to normal causality, but as earl said they still have the same root in that they are both different systems of causalityOkay, so there is "someone who transcends time" and "someone who follows a different flow of time", change "time" with "causality" and we have two different things that are both under type 4 acausality when they could be their own types.
I don't see any 7-A WoD characters, unless they're coming up in revisions.Nah fam we really don't need that.
WoD 7-A are probably 2nd or 3rd (cus idk what the hell happens with them vs Aleister since he's smurf i think).
Rakudai then beats every other contender (and would beat WoD too if they didn't have resistance to smurf fate hax)
Then it's whoever wins between Death Mage and Instant Death along with Kumoko.
That's High 7-A.and baba yaga as well
Gufadgarn passively outranges them.Death mage? They got nothing on rakudai smh.
I mean, Edel would never get to the point of damaging Kumoko. If it's not passive, it is irrelevant.They incapactiate her by changing her fate into being unable to move or do certain things (basically controlling her actions through fate). In the case of ppl like Edel she has complete command over anything she damages (causality control), meaning she can order her to kill her own clones.
Elaborate, you were there when i explained how Desperado hax isn't range related.Gufadgarn passively outranges them.
Causality will damage you if you act against desperados to begin with.I mean, Edel would never get to the point of damaging Kumoko. If it's not passive, it is irrelevant.
She can command her to do nothing though.And heck, even assuming that the mind control isn't resisted due to being causality stuff... it's still irrelevant. She can't command Kumoko to do anything to the clones, if she doesn't know the clones exist.
I meant top spot over the other non-smurfs. We're not talking about Shinza or WoD .I never said top spot. They cannot beat WoD, Aleister or Shinza.
Which ID character can counter them tho?
Vandi's null wouldn't work on desperado and the rest are useless against fate hax.
I don't remember that actually. To claim infinite range you sure need some very good justification.Elaborate, you were there when i explained how Desperado hax isn't range related.
Well, in the beginning of the fight she just teleports away. In which way does it even "damage you"?Causality will damage you if you act against desperados to begin with.
Which would trigger the clones.She can command her to do nothing though.
Why we arguing Edel tho? She ain't even in 7-A.