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Top 5 Most Combat Skilled Characters for Multiple Categories

Bobsican

He/Him
21,177
6,089
Acting as a spiritual successor to this as Azontr left the site for some reason, plus the thread was kinda dying.

This thread acts as a sort of resource to use in versus threads, be it for potential comparison arguments, direct linking to whatever's brought up, or minor bragging rights if the skilled character somehow is also a haxlord.

Also, because some standards are changed to better reflect the overall consensus from the staff in the linked skill blog and consensus in the previous thread, the list is now reset, and so nominations may be recycled to submit characters to a list featured here from scratch.

The Rules

- A given verse may only take a single spot in any category, this is to avoid bloating the lists with similarly skilled characters from the same verse, aka, redundancy.

- Each category is ranked based on a combination of user feedback (voting, including mine), and this blog accepted by multiple mods on how combat skill realistically even works.

- Measurement-wise, characters will be judged based on their quality of broad aspects including precision (ability for micro-control/ability to control and hit targets), adaptability (ability to adapt their skills to new and foreign situations) and measurable combat experience (meaning that merely being obscenely old won't make the cut, as much that kind of skill resource quickly stagnates), more specific areas and semantics to consider are also in the linked blog post above.

- Certain skill feats may be vetoed from use in deeming a character's skill quality if they defy logic or rely on being downright superpowers that happen to be triggered by skill, examples include cutting space with "raw precision", dodging a void with "sheer skill" while already being inside of it to begin with, unrealistically effective Psychometry from "normal" skill, or retaining mobility after a good chunk of the user's body is compromised (aka, borderline type 2 immortality plus stamina on disguise).

- Nigh-Omniscience or Omniscience will be heavily scrutinized as very often such beings can't do much combat-wise with their intelligence to begin with, plus NLFs. The range this intelligence covers on the verse's cosmology, and the notable skill implications it'd have will also be potentially considered factors as well.

- Accelerated Development is only relevant for the particular creative developments characters have displayed, but not the timeframe involved, the focus here is the end result.

How to get in

The criteria to get a spot on this list will be to provide a CLEAR and CONCISE list of your character's skill feats, and suggesting a spot/category that you wish for them to be placed in. If one wishes to take a spot from another character, a Fun and Games thread must be created pitting two character's together in a contest of combat skill (STRICTLY COMBAT SKILL) and the vote count must conform to typical VS Thread rules in order for the victory to be considered valid. Merely comparing, discussing and voting in this thread is also welcome for less controversial cases.

Suggestions and improvements are welcome.

Please keep the toxicity to a minimum.

The list

This covers characters that mainly use swords or daggers, not much else to say.

1. Capricorn Shura (Feats)
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Turns out there weren't that many nominations in the other thread for other kinds of close-ranged weapons, so I'm merging everything else for now.
Anyways, this covers characters that mainly use weaponry that can't shoot projectiles, besides at most just throwing the weapon itself, but if that's the main thing (say, a boomerang), then please aim for the Ranged list instead.

1.
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I noticed there were barely any Bare-Handed Martial Artists in the previous list, so I may as well just merge all sections to a single one.
Anyways, quite self-explanatory, characters here should main unarmed combat, characters that basically have a weapon as a part of their body should be nominated for another section, the separations are to ease skill comparisons in the first place.

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This group covers characters that mainly use guns and other similar bullet-based weaponry.

1. V1 (ULTRAKILL) (Feats)
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This group covers characters that mainly use bows, not much else to add.

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This group covers characters that rely on other sorts of ranged weaponry, including maining the act of casting magical spells or the like.

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5.

More will be added as time passes and suggestions are made.

This group covers characters that have significant skill on multiple different kinds of weapons at once.
Known usage of at least three different kinds of weaponry are required to qualify here, excluding bare-handed skill, to avoid dual wielders (most often sword and shield users) and characters that know they can still use their head and legs while holding weapons nearly inherently falling here.

1.
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Usually people nominate faster when there's something they disagree, so for a strong start I'll immediately add them for now.
 
Certain skill feats may be vetoed from use in deeming a character's skill quality if they defy logic or rely on being downright superpowers that happen to be triggered by skill, examples include cutting space with "raw precision", dodging a void with "sheer skill" while already being inside of it to begin with, unrealistically effective Psychometry from "normal" skill, or retaining mobility after a good chunk of the user's body is compromised (aka, borderline type 2 immortality plus stamina on disguise).
Bob this is getting pathetic. Like, genuinly.
 
New thread, new standards.

That sort of skill would imply that anyone that can copy physical movements can now have borderline type 2 immortality, which clearly falls in the area of "superpowers by skill" thing.

Plus it's not like that affects any placements right now.

I'd ask for staff input on the matter at this point if anything TBH.
 
New thread, new standards.
My guy thinks he can just restart a topic, whipe out its consencus and thinks its not blatantly dishonest and petty or what??

That sort of skill would imply that anyone that can copy physical movements can now have borderline type 2 immortality, which clearly falls in the area of "superpowers by skill" thing.
If a character possesses Skill based Power Mimicry good enough to mimic muscle control, nothing stops him from copying muscle control abilities. You keep harping on this "Borderline Immo 2"nonsense, which I will rip apart later, but I will say this much right now; If a ability stays within the confines of human physiology, was attained through trainable techniques, and is theoritically replicateable by any other characters, because it does not rely on verse specific mechanics, its skill. AnaPre, which even the most basic ones you can find in fiction far surpasses what is physically possible in real life, therefor a ******* superpower , the level of chinamens is something every character could attain if given a infinite amount of time, because its not dependend on some supernatural powersystem, or the fact that chinamen are chinese.

Skill in Fiction is the logical extension of real life skill, taken to the extreme.

Plus it's not like that affects any placements right now.
The absolute state of this man. Yeah no shit it doesn't at this specific moment, you took the liberties to whipe the rankings.

I'd ask for staff input on the matter at this point if anything TBH.

Do it. See if I care. Get me the resident Combat Skill spokesperson amongst the Staff. Get me the nonexistant person.

Now to this nonsense argument youre throwing around; "Borderline Immo type 2 + Stamina", like how the **** is this supposedly disqualifying anything? When we have literal real life examples of "Borderline" immortality type 2?? And Stamina? STAMINA? The first thing a Martial Artist, Soldier or MMA fighter trains in? Are you even listening to yourself right now?

I veto your rights to OP this topic in general. You clearly are not only biased, youre spouting mad nonsense.
 
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Like its so bafflening how you can even make that argument. Do you know makes the difference between AnaPre and straight up Mind Reading? The goddamn context, mechanics and exposition explaining the ability. Like, I woudnt even bring Sions feat up if it weren't for the series blatantly laying out what shes doing. So what if its shit level immortality type 2 when its blatantly shown and explained that it works on skill?
 
Nominating Shirou Emiya for every Non-Martial Arts category. He can just copy ur weapon and copy ur technique. He thus can have the skill of 90% of the enemies he face's plus his own skill (This is totally quantifiable trus)
Also Fate is obviously Tier -1, just saying.
 
My guy thinks he can just restart a topic, whipe out its consencus and thinks its not blatantly dishonest and petty or what??
The absolute state of this man. Yeah no shit it doesn't at this specific moment, you took the liberties to whipe the rankings.
I thought it'd be best to restart from scratch as the standards were changed quite a bit, and some of the previous placements just wouldn't qualify as well, so instead of manually picking up every brought up case, I've restarted it so brought up arguments can lean more properly to what's proposed here, rather than only trying to remove characters I don't like.

If a character possesses Skill based Power Mimicry good enough to mimic muscle control, nothing stops him from copying muscle control abilities. You keep harping on this "Borderline Immo 2"nonsense, which I will rip apart later, but I will say this much right now; If a ability stays within the confines of human physiology, was attained through trainable techniques, and is theoritically replicateable by any other characters, because it does not rely on verse specific mechanics, its skill. AnaPre, which even the most basic ones you can find in fiction far surpasses what is physically possible in real life, therefor a ******* superpower , the level of chinamens is something every character could attain if given a infinite amount of time, because its not dependend on some supernatural powersystem, or the fact that chinamen are chinese.


Skill in Fiction is the logical extension of real life skill, taken to the extreme.
I mean, controlling muscles by barely having any working nerves left to control them to begin with isn't skill, it's just glorified luck and stamina.
AnaPre past a certain point just isn't seriously quantificable. Strictly speaking, no, not all characters would reach the same level of skill as a chinamen even with infinite time, past a certain point that kind of stuff stagnates (and don't make me start with stuff like physical stats like AP and speed being basically a requirement past a certain point), and that's even a standard brought up in the OP.

Do it. See if I care. Get me the resident Combat Skill spokesperson amongst the Staff. Get me the nonexistant person.
Closest would be Thread Mods that check vs threads fairly often, but this isn't a CRT, I'd have to at least set standards accepted by the site as a whole on skill to begin with, as it'd be like trying to measure the size of something without setting up a metric unit like meters first.

Now to this nonsense argument youre throwing around; "Borderline Immo type 2 + Stamina", like how the **** is this supposedly disqualifying anything? When we have literal real life examples of "Borderline" immortality type 2?? And Stamina? STAMINA? The first thing a Martial Artist, Soldier or MMA fighter trains in? Are you even listening to yourself right now?
The whole argument of Sion being a borderline corpse or whatever, it's only "borderline" as it's not flagged as that in the profile IIRC, and "stamina" falls in a similar area as, for example, pain tolerance is considered by the site to just be a subset of stamina, so if you'd want to claim Sion's mind is more compromised than usual out of the pain and whatever, it's not skill as we're literally dealing with a regular stat that isn't even directly related to intelligence.

I veto your rights to OP this topic in general. You clearly are not only biased, youre spouting mad nonsense.
Sorry if this annoys you, but at least bother actually getting citations for that one skill blog, as quite often you claim that Sion has this, that, and whatever, yet without actually citing most stuff to a part of the given work, in fact the amount of scans is so lacking if this was a page on the site I could ask to delete it.

Nominating Shirou Emiya for every Non-Martial Arts category. He can just copy ur weapon and copy ur technique. He thus can have the skill of 90% of the enemies he face's plus his own skill (This is totally quantifiable trus)
Also Fate is obviously Tier -1, just saying.
Per the standards outlined in the OP he'd only qualify for a single category, I presume Misc?
 
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I kinda agree with bob on this one. Some things can be quantified and some things can't while others are just blatantly supernatural
 
I mean, controlling muscles by barely having any working nerves left to control them to begin with isn't skill, it's just glorified luck and stamina.
Who claimed that though? Did I ever brought up Sions nervous system?

AnaPre past a certain point just isn't seriously quantificable.
Put your foot down and actually make a argument instead of saying vague "I dont think so". What is this certain point youre speaking of.

Strictly speaking, no, not all characters would reach the same level of skill as a chinamen even with infinite time, past a certain point that kind of stuff stagnates (and don't make me start with stuff like physical stats like AP and speed being basically a requirement past a certain point), and that's even a standard brought up in the OP.
Bob realizing that not all characters are made equal and some will always be more skilled than others, colorized. Secondly, this another absolute non-argument. Bring up an actual point instead of saying different flavours of "I dont believe it". Like what does it mean for stuff to stagnate a certain point? Bring up actual examples.

No, I do make your start with that. Stop being vague.

The whole argument of Sion being a borderline corpse or whatever, it's only "borderline" as it's not flagged as that in the profile IIRC, and "stamina" falls in a similar area as, for example, pain tolerance is considered by the site to just be a subset of stamina, so if you'd want to claim Sion's mind is more compromised than usual out of the pain and whatever, it's not skill as we're literally dealing with a regular stat that isn't even directly related to intelligence.

Now youre just pulling out arguments out of thin air. The argument has been, from the very beginning, that Sion can fight with minimal muscle mass remaining on her body, because the rest died off. Wether or not this is type 2 Immortality is irrelevant, because gaining a superhuman ability through training is not only possible, its a staple in fiction. By the same logic Stat Amps via techniques are not skill because they grant you a stat which you could note down in the profile. News flash, its another horrendously common Skill staple. Now to your Stamina Argument. You do know you could raise your Stamina via skill as well right? Breathing techniques? Efficient energy expendure? Minimal Body movement?

Point is; If a aspect is claimed to be Skill, has a explanation that supports the Aspects link to Skill and does not break reality, its more often than not Skill. What you believe dosn't matter, you argue your point and see who agrees with you.

Sorry if this annoys you, but at least bother actually getting citations for that one skill blog, as quite often you claim that Sion has this, that, and whatever, yet without actually citing most stuff to a part of the given work, in fact the amount of scans is so lacking if this was a page on the site I could ask to delete it.
So now we are deflecting? Bob, I dont care what you think is valid or not. Genuinly, the same way you shoudnt care what I consider valid. Everyone and their mother agrees that Skill is ultimately subjective, which is why we go by the opinion of the populus. So the fact that you believe in your own truth does not annoy me, especially not that you don't agree with me on Sion. WHAT DOES ANNOY me, is this abjact pettyness you have been displaying. You got shot out of the Sky, so now youre trying to change that L by changing the very rules itself. Thats pathetic, no matter how you dice it.

And are you threatening me right now? Because its doing shit all to me wether or not Sions profile is deleted. Genuinly. But I commend you for having the balls to do this publicly.
 
Who claimed that though? Did I ever brought up Sions nervous system?
IIRC you never explained how this was skill beyond it being stated to be "skill" and whatever without a proper source.

Put your foot down and actually make a argument instead of saying vague "I dont think so". What is this certain point youre speaking of.
I mean, a example is a character knowning absolutely all there is of another character just by the shape of their poop. Non-sequiturs acting as a justification for a character's capability just aren't quantificable skill feats.

Bob realizing that not all characters are made equal and some will always be more skilled than others, colorized. Secondly, this another absolute non-argument. Bring up an actual point instead of saying different flavours of "I dont believe it". Like what does it mean for stuff to stagnate a certain point? Bring up actual examples.

No, I do make your start with that. Stop being vague.
As the OP explains, currently the whole thing here is based on this blog for the sake of measuring skill as it got accepted by the staff, go look at this part for more information on this topic.

Now youre just pulling out arguments out of thin air. The argument has been, from the very beginning, that Sion can fight with minimal muscle mass remaining on her body, because the rest died off. Wether or not this is type 2 Immortality is irrelevant, because gaining a superhuman ability through training is not only possible, its a staple in fiction. By the same logic Stat Amps via techniques are not skill because they grant you a stat which you could note down in the profile. News flash, its another horrendously common Skill staple. Now to your Stamina Argument. You do know you could raise your Stamina via skill as well right? Breathing techniques? Efficient energy expendure? Minimal Body movement?

Point is; If a aspect is claimed to be Skill, has a explanation that supports the Aspects link to Skill and does not break reality, its more often than not Skill. What you believe dosn't matter, you argue your point and see who agrees with you.
I mean, that'd just support that for this to be relevant at all to begin with relies on Sion fighting with barely any muscle nerves (do you know how muscles work?), otherwise this'd just be a case of pulling strength to do much at all by lacking muscles out of thin air, not all things that are claimed even in-verse to be skill are inherently quantificably usable for the purposes of here to begin with, that's also a standard brought up in the blog, and I may as well link that one part here too.

So now we are deflecting? Bob, I dont care what you think is valid or not. Genuinly, the same way you shoudnt care what I consider valid. Everyone and their mother agrees that Skill is ultimately subjective, which is why we go by the opinion of the populus. So the fact that you believe in your own truth does not annoy me, especially not that you don't agree with me on Sion. WHAT DOES ANNOY me, is this abjact pettyness you have been displaying. You got shot out of the Sky, so now youre trying to change that L by changing the very rules itself. Thats pathetic, no matter how you dice it.

And are you threatening me right now? Because its doing shit all to me wether or not Sions profile is deleted. Genuinly. But I commend you for having the balls to do this publicly.
Sure, it's subjective, but just like powerscaling, we can still measure it by setting more rigorous standards than merely who looks to be pulling more effort or time. As said before, the rules are being changed because only relying on voting isn't a good idea, the rules aren't even just made up by me, I based them on prior discussions on the other thread and a skill blog accepted by multiple mods, which is more reliable than just blue names FRAing.

Not particularly, but if this hints that Knight Run is in a poor state... I'll probably check its quality status on the site when I'm bored.

Uhhh, if you couldn't tell by the way I was speaking, I was just trolling lol
Oh, okay, lol.
 
None of this actually matters considering sion is contending as a swordsman and this feat in particular has nothing to do with swords
 
IIRC you never explained how this was skill beyond it being stated to be "skill" and whatever without a proper source.
I mean, that'd just support that for this to be relevant at all to begin with relies on Sion fighting with barely any muscle nerves (do you know how muscles work?), otherwise this'd just be a case of pulling strength to do much at all by lacking muscles out of thin air, not all things that are claimed even in-verse to be skill are inherently quantificably usable for the purposes of here to begin with, that's also a standard brought up in the blog, and I may as well link that one part here too.
Bob. My guy. My son. My fellow member. I showed you the scan. It was one of the few scans I provided. We had this EXACT rodeo once already.

The question should be, do you know how muscles work? The nervous system and muscles are literally not one organ, the lose of muscle mass does not imply the lose of the nervous system connected to them. Evident by the fact that neither I nor the verse claimed Sion to be affected by that. This is you harping on a strawman, evidently since the day you graced me with your presence.

Like, a old man on average loses 20 to 40% of his muscles mass compared to his younger version. This is like saying that such a old man being able to fight somewhat compareably to his younger self can't be skill (Another fiction staple of the skilled as **** old man). The theory behind it is simple; Man is so good at fighting that even if hes below his prime, his body control allows him to use the most out of his avaiable muscles to fight.

Bob, you keep quoting the goddamn blog but you are aware that Venom is not disavowing Skill feats that are out there and grant power right. He even says that just because something becomes a power it dosn't erase the Skill behind it. We dont consider shit that breaks reality or the laws of physics as Skill, never have done so and never will. Anything below is fair game so long the mechanics and explanation align with the concept of Skill. Its not that hard.

But I'm repeating myself at this point. You do you. The OG thread is still going, so I dont have to deal with this farce anymore. And if you try to get Knight Run deleted, dont bother pinging me. If Staff agrees to their deletion then so be it.
 
The original thread is back and I'm (trying to, I can't do much but bump) keeping it active, so this thread can be sidelined unless yall wanna play by Bob's rules.
 
Bob. My guy. My son. My fellow member. I showed you the scan. It was one of the few scans I provided. We had this EXACT rodeo once already.
I guess we can agree to disagree, sorry if this annoys you.

The question should be, do you know how muscles work? The nervous system and muscles are literally not one organ, the lose of muscle mass does not imply the lose of the nervous system connected to them. Evident by the fact that neither I nor the verse claimed Sion to be affected by that. This is you harping on a strawman, evidently since the day you graced me with your presence.
Your same source then claims that muscle damage can either prevent the muscle from being usable at all, or not behaving as intended, skill just isn't going to allow to miraculously override that. That'd be like claiming that blindness can be cured (and I don't mean worked around, especially with the case in question) with pure skill.

Like, a old man on average loses 20 to 40% of his muscles mass compared to his younger version. This is like saying that such a old man being able to fight somewhat compareably to his younger self can't be skill (Another fiction staple of the skilled as **** old man). The theory behind it is simple; Man is so good at fighting that even if hes below his prime, his body control allows him to use the most out of his avaiable muscles to fight.
At best you just made this kind of feat quantificable by basically rating Sion as lower stat-wise in these conditions (which is unlikely as it's not like they were surgically removed), which while somewhat impressive, doesn't change much of Sion's reasoning as IIRC a good chunk of the skill blog on her relies on upscaling from barely-cited fodder, and the few notable feats of characters properly on her level could one shot her anyways. Mind you, I'm not saying that Sion is as skilled as a normal newborn baby or anything like that, just scrutinizing this kind of feats.

Bob, you keep quoting the goddamn blog but you are aware that Venom is not disavowing Skill feats that are out there and grant power right. He even says that just because something becomes a power it dosn't erase the Skill behind it. We dont consider shit that breaks reality or the laws of physics as Skill, never have done so and never will. Anything below is fair game so long the mechanics and explanation align with the concept of Skill. Its not that hard.
Thing is that this isn't like a fire magic user using the fire magic in creative ways, this is directly talking about a character being able to still fight and whatever even under those physical limitations, which I've covered on the paragraph above.

But I'm repeating myself at this point. You do you. The OG thread is still going, so I dont have to deal with this farce anymore. And if you try to get Knight Run deleted, dont bother pinging me. If Staff agrees to their deletion then so be it.
Oh well, thanks for the discussion.
 
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