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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation

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Ss3micah said:
I have a question regarding the DnD characters on these list

1. In 2-C, Dracula is above Orcus and Demogorgon and in Low 2-C, Dracula is below Sertrous who might as well be the same as Orcus and Demogorgon.
Is this an oversight of does Sertrous have something impressive that Orcus and Demogorgon don't or is Low 2-C Dracula just that weak compared to Sertrous?
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I can (try to) answer at least the 1st point: 2-C Dracula is from the main timeline and thus gets ALL the top tier hax and stats available in Castlevania also his Reincarnation is borderline composite Castlevania so he kinda just passively wins as the Dark Lord (The DnD 2-C characters can beat him in their god keys but those are smurfs) meanwhile his L2-C key is from the Lord of Shadow's timeline who isn't quite as haxxed as is main timeline counterpart, doesn't have infinite speed and is lacking certain passives which means he get blitz by the DnD plus as a Demon Lord Sertrous isn't a tier 1 smurf unlike Orcus or Demo who are in their god keys iirc.

There's probably other stuff I'm missing or misinterpreting but that's what I got from both verses.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
I can (try to) answer at least the 1st point: 2-C Dracula is from the main timeline and thus gets ALL the top tier hax and stats available in Castlevania also his Reincarnation is borderline composite Castlevania so he kinda just passively wins as the Dark Lord (The DnD 2-C characters can beat him in their god keys but those are smurfs) meanwhile his L2-C key is from the Lord of Shadow's timeline who isn't quite as haxxed as is main timeline counterpart, doesn't have infinite speed and is lacking certain passives which means he get blitz by the DnD plus as a Demon Lord Sertrous isn't a tier 1 smurf unlike Orcus or Demo who are in their god keys iirc.

There's probably other stuff I'm missing or misinterpreting but that's what I got from both verses.
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(it is literally just because dnd is outdated when it comes to the resistance blog. If it wasn't for that they would just resist his entire kit bar plot hax which doesn't actually beat them)
 
What does Yorman have in Low 2-C to justify his place? Looking at his profile, I think The Outsider beats him handidly.

Yorman has no time manip resistance, which means Outsider passively stops him in time and incaps and Yorman does not have the NPI to touch him.
 
Lou_change said:
Don't Rest Your Head characters like *******, Knifeman, Silent Knight, Loco Motive, and Thunder-Thighs for 9-C 7th place or a potentially higher ranking there and a spot in 10-B since they resist most of Jean Grey's hax and some have hax with range to one shot her
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They should just beat everyone on the 9-C list bar those from LoM, esp Silent Knight and Locomotive
On that subject, uh, why the **** is LoM not at the first spot for 9-C, those at that level have passive layered madness type 3 and mind hax along with being ae1 on type 1 concepts
 
Lou_change said:
Don't Rest Your Head characters like *******, Knifeman, Silent Knight, Loco Motive, and Thunder-Thighs for 9-C 7th place or a potentially higher ranking there and a spot in 10-B since they resist most of Jean Grey's hax and some have hax with range to one shot her
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Knifeman and Thunder-Thighs only have Standard Melee Range, Silent Knight has Universal+ range so that makes it a smurf if I remember correctly, and Loco Motive has Immeasurable range, what would that even be?
 
RoTt35 said:
Knifeman and Thunder-Thighs only have Standard Melee Range, Silent Knight has Universal+ range so that makes it a smurf if I remember correctly, and Loco Motive has Immeasurable range, what would that even be?
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Silent Knight can't actually affect the entire space-time continuum with it, only affect things inside it, decently sure immeasurable range is some old terminology but from memory it is basically stuff that doesn't really have a limit to its range
 
RoTt35 said:
Knifeman and Thunder-Thighs only have Standard Melee Range,
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far higher with powers
RoTt35 said:
Silent Knight has Universal+ range so that makes it a smurf if I remember correctly
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really he is doing stuff across time and time hax are allowed, it not like he is actually directly effecting a 4D structure
RoTt35 said:
Loco Motive has Immeasurable range
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probably just universal+ also given summoning trains across time which is still not effecting a 4D structure directly just 3d layers they aren't on
 
deonment said:
Because range doesn't mean affecting the entire thing but just having the range to reach across something of that size

How is something which literally steals your entire timeline not a smurf hax
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The timelines it refers to is the timeline of a persons life not the universe that might probably still be smurfy tho
 
Ss3micah said:
1. In 2-C, Dracula is above Orcus and Demogorgon and in Low 2-C, Dracula is below Sertrous who might as well be the same as Orcus and Demogorgon.
Is this an oversight of does Sertrous have something impressive that Orcus and Demogorgon don't or is Low 2-C Dracula just that weak compared to Sertrous?
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The one from Lords of Shadow is actually weaker, has less hax and etc. But the main thing which are the passives of the Castle he still has.

I decided to nominate him on the list (the one from Lords of Shadow) and when he got to third place I stopped commenting because I didn't want to deal with D&D and those crazy resistances.

If you want, you can make a match. If that D&D character doesn't have resistance to Weave Manipulation, Dracula kind of doesn't lose. So if you want to try.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Just because you can control the outcome of something by writing in a book doesnt mean that you are controlling the narrative of the story
You need waaay more context
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But that's it.

The Grimorio is its own world that contains the entire history of the Castlevania timeline. Grimorio is not a book with written history and changing what is written changes "our" reality. Changing what is written changes the narrative of the grimoire world itself.

That's what the creatures of chaos within the grimoire do. They change the narrative of their own world by changing what is written in the grimoire.

Like, imagine that our entire universe (or the universe's timeline) was actually a book, and that everything that happened or will happen is written in words in the book. And I have the power to simply change what is written, thereby altering the narrative of our world. It's like that.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
But that's it.

The Grimorio is its own world that contains the entire history of the Castlevania timeline. Grimorio is not a book with written history and changing what is written changes "our" reality. Changing what is written changes the narrative of the grimoire world itself.

That's what the creatures of chaos within the grimoire do. They change the narrative of their own world by changing what is written in the grimoire.

Like, imagine that our entire universe (or the universe's timeline) was actually a book, and that everything that happened or will happen is written in words in the book. And I have the power to simply change what is written, thereby altering the narrative of our world. It's like that.
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The book's contents have changed since you entered it!

You mean it's being overwritten? Does this sort of thing usually happen?

No. It may temporarily inscribe your individual abilities and weapons... but never in the history of our organization have we seen the entire contents altered.
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Say, what was that weird stuff that appeared from that monster?

The monsters' soul: the cause of the grimoire chaos. We call it "Vital Soul"
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You mentioned earlier that the inscriptions are being rewritten already... Has that not been the case in past grimoires?

In all previous grimoires, the overwiting occurred after their magic was destabilized, meaning we had some time before it happened

This time, however, it occurred before we could even see it coming. Something bad might be about to happen.

Or, rather, someone might cause it to happen.

You mean Hermina?

The possibility is certanly high. The situation has made a change for the worse since she made an appearance
Click to expand...
The Vital Soul is successfully captured. Well done, everyone

Is the grimore still being altered?

It seems to have reverted back to its original contents. It says that the monster has been defeated
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Magically speaking, the real world and the world of the grimoire are one and the same. You've seen me materialize weapons from the books, haven't you?
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Basically, Vital Souls can affect and rewrite the Grimorio, which is one with the whole world, however, this is far from being any plothax shit. The whole thing is about being capable to rewrite the world by materializing what is in the book into reality. You are not literally changing the narrative of Castlevania, you are simply changing the universe with Subject Reality

Imagine there is a crystal ball, and this ball is one with the universe in the sense that everything reflected in it is what represents the world
Consequently, a wizard is able to project any illusion into such a ball and thus can turn such an illusion into reality
You would definitely not call this as plothax
But what if instead of a crystal ball with illusions it was a book with words? Now it would be plothax?
 
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characters from DMC should be number 10 for Low 1-C
spawn gets fear haxed but if speed is unequal then spawn probably wins
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Basically, Vital Souls can affect and rewrite the Grimorio, which is one with the whole world, however, this is far from being any plothax shit. The whole thing is about being capable to rewrite the world by materializing what is the book into reality. You are not literally changing the narrative of Castlevania, you are simply changing the universe with Subject Reality
Click to expand...
You are changing the narrative. The world of guys is literally a book that has the whole story in words. And using the powers of Chaos, the beings literally change the narrative. Making the heroes who originally won a fight, now lose as the narrative was changed.

And I think you got it wrong. The grimoire and the "real" world are different things. Changing what is written in the grimoire does not change the real world at all, but the world of the grimoire. As I said, the grimoire is not a book that if you write something in it or change something, it changes the events of the real world. You change the grimoire world itself.

The Grimoire and what is written on it would be the very reality of the beings that are part of the grimoire.

LIFE_OF_KING said:
Imagine there is a crystal ball, and this ball is one with the universe in the sense that everything reflected in it is what represents the world
Consequently, a wizard is able to project any illusion into such a ball thus can turn such an illusion into reality
You would definitely not call this as plothax
But what if instead of a crystal ball it was a book? Now it would be plothax?
Click to expand...
1 - You are misunderstood. The grimoire is not a book that is one with the real world, and if you change it, it changes reality. The grimoire world and the real world are different. The grimoire would be something like the very structure of the reality of those beings. It's like our Universe/Timeline is literally a book with its narrative written in words (Obviously, since it's a book)

2 - To be plot hax, metafictional elements are necessary, and a crystal ball, being a universe or something, does not have these elements. In the case of Grimorio, it is literally a book with a written narrative. During the various crts about the castlevania plot hax it was discussed whether it was just reality manipulation or plot hax, and it was plot hax because of the metafictional elements. So if in your example, the crystal ball was literally the fabric of reality and it was actually a book with the story written in words, and changing the words changed the story itself, then it would probably be plot hax.

Anyway, if you disagree, make a crt. Arguing here will lead nowhere, and it's not even the right place for that kind of discussion.
 
Yeah I was about to say, make a CRT over this.

Also, can someone elaborate on how KR Saber's resistance to EE works? Not that it's super important; I think Reimu Hakurei can take his spot with a combination of multiversal spatial intangibility, passive probability hax that work on type 4 acausals and ensure her victory, and sealing or death manipulation as a wincon (I think). I'd like some KR supporters to confirm for sure though. If that doesn't work, she'd probably win with speed unequalized.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Also, can someone elaborate on how KR Saber's resistance to EE works? Not that it's super important;
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Saber can survive the erasure of the Almighty Book which was the source of the world's type 1 concepts and narrative, with its erasure resulting in the erasure of everything else on those levels as well as a spatio-temporal level, along with being able to regen from ee on those levels
 
deonment said:
Uh wait, does reimu not have resistance to concept manip, otherwise maybe, would wait on a more knowledgeable KR saber supporter than me
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She does not, but unless Saber has it passively or leads with in in-character, Reimu's ESP and passive probability hax will ensure she'll lead with Fantasy Nature and stall him to death.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Tier 2-C:

1. Characters from Castlevania

2. Orcus and Demogorgon

3. The Nameless

4. Exdeath

5. Characters from Destiny

6. Kamen Rider Saber

7. Characters from Touhou Project (Junko, Yukari Yakumo and Reimu Hakurei)

8. Characters from Yu-Gi-Oh! (Mainly Yubel but including The Egyptian Gods)

9.

10.
Click to expand...
Recommending Characters from Dr. Slump (Arale Norimaki and Gatchan) to replace the Nameless as better alternative
Both on this list and on the regular smurf list as well

The Nameless is ludicrously Out of Date, his profile has not been touched since 2019, and has NEP statistics that reflect the old standards as a small proof of that.
Few abilities he has depend on very old standards of reasoning, of which has been revised and Nameless doesn't qualify for those abilities. For proof of this take a look at this "High Godly" Regen description

On top of that, Arale can likely easily beat him through Plot Manipulation as even going by his NEP description, The Nameless NEP doesn't cover Aspect 5;Plot and The Nameless NEP (assuming it even qualifies under the new standards and with it's current descriptions) would undoubtedly not cover Nature 2 in the slightest
 
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