Toon Force possible deletion

[Propellus]

I get the idea, but we can simply just rewrite the page a bit to fix the isssues. It could start like this:

"Toon Force is not a superpower, but a trope [explain]. For the purpose of this wiki, Toon Force can be given to profiles who have other, actual abilities whose use can be associated with Toon Force, but the latter is still not a superpower. This can particularly come in handy if one were to separate natural, serious abilities a character may have from random, more inconsistent & all over the place abilities that come from Toon Force (See for example Timmy Turner's profile), or when the abilities a character has that "come from Toon Force" are not worth writing as their own powers (If for example a character has minor Reality Warping)"

This being a very rough example.

I have no problem with this, nice idea Efs

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah actually sounds the best solution

 

[QuasiYuri]

I get the idea, but we can simply just rewrite the page a bit to fix the isssues. It could start like this:

"Toon Force is not a superpower, but a trope [explain]. For the purpose of this wiki, Toon Force can be given to profiles who have other, actual abilities whose use can be associated with Toon Force, but the latter is still not a superpower. This can particularly come in handy if one were to separate natural, serious abilities a character may have from random, more inconsistent & all over the place abilities that come from Toon Force (See for example Timmy Turner's profile), or when the abilities a character has that "come from Toon Force" are not worth writing as their own powers (If for example a character has minor Reality Warping)"

This being a very rough example.

It sounds meaningless.

Not only is this kind of a weird new standard which is based on the kind of story that is told (which is a no-no), but it doesn't solve anything.

I mean, Saiki Kuso is funny and his abilities are all from explained RW despite being all over the place. He isn't any different yet would get another treatment from those with "Toon Force" for no reason but trying to find a non-existent use to the latter. Hell, characters with lot of hax in general aren't any different.

The proposal is just giving a new issue rather than solving the existing ones there. Having an acknowledged trope as an ability is worse since it would mean "we make a mistake on purpose because we find it easier'.

And Timmy Turner's profile really just embodies everything about how meaningless Toon Force is and how it is arbitrarily deciding which tropes come under it or not. He could easily just have everything in his base key.

 

[Pikaman]

I just don’t see the point, there’s no egregious harm being done to the wiki by having toon force, a widely recognised ability/trope, listed, even if it’s not the best option it works well enough

 

[Eficiente]

On top of what I said before, we can also change the "Powers and Abilities" category it has for the "Terms" category, disencourage its use, and clarify that we used to have it as a power. Even if it is meaningless, I find this the only realistic solution to something we had since so long as a power with so many profiles having it.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It sounds meaningless.

Not only is this kind of a weird new standard which is based on the kind of story that is told (which is a no-no), but it doesn't solve anything.

I mean, Saiki Kuso is funny and his abilities are all from explained RW despite being all over the place. He isn't any different yet would get another treatment from those with "Toon Force" for no reason but trying to find a non-existent use to the latter. Hell, characters with lot of hax in general aren't any different.

The proposal is just giving a new issue rather than solving the existing ones there. Having an acknowledged trope as an ability is worse since it would mean "we make a mistake on purpose because we find it easier'.

And Timmy Turner's profile really just embodies everything about how meaningless Toon Force is and how it is arbitrarily deciding which tropes come under it or not. He could easily just have everything in his base key.

But you still haven't provided a solid solution to the issue of the characters inconsistent abilities.

You keep saying "just replace them with said abilities that they are" but completely ignore that many of these characters don't have these abilities on a consistent basis and thus we would half to either not give it to them in general which would leave them will little to nothing or simply say "said characters abilities activate at random".

 

[QuasiYuri]

But you still haven't provided a solid solution to the issue of the characters inconsistent abilities.

I did. Besides so far we never treated it the way you said, so change the standard abt it first.

You keep saying "just replace them with said abilities that they are" but completely ignore that many of these characters don't have these abilities on a consistent basis and thus we would half to either not give it to them in general which would leave them will little to nothing or simply say "said characters abilities activate at random".

Then why don't we do the same for characters without Toon Force?
It's a nonsensical double standard which invent an issue (since it never was treated that way) for the sole reason of keeping it.

If you think they don't deserve their abilities, you shouldn't have given them to begin with.
Doesn't change the fact that unless we start creating pages like "Power of Friendship" to explain nonsense boost then we have no use for a trope. Hell only very few characters actually acknowledged their powers as Toon Force.

 

[QuasiYuri]

And again, having something for long or "too much work" isn't a reason.

Otherwise we should've revert to the old Tiering System, not do verse-wide revisions, and not make site-wide revisions on a 30000 pages.

Trying to justify the same laziness that make half the site-related thread take months if not years doesn't seem like something staff is supposed to do.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Personally, I'm in favour of keeping it. Not for its effects, but for its limitations.
Something being listed as Toonforce instead of Reality Warping is just a big warning sign for likely humorous and/or inconsistent use. And it's a widespread style to use various abilities which is even officially acknowledged in multiple works.
So in my book it has a purpose and popularity, which is enough to justify its existence.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Personally, I'm in favour of keeping it. Not for its effects, but for its limitations.
Something being listed as Toonforce instead of Reality Warping is just a big warning sign for likely humorous and/or inconsistent use. And it's a widespread style to use various abilities which is even officially acknowledged in multiple works.
So in my book it has a purpose and popularity, which is enough to justify its existence.

There's humorous and inconsistent stuff who aren't Toon Force though.

Also half the time the Toon Force is just here without saying which feat is one, unless you mean we should consider the entire character as inconsistent (in which case how are we even giving it ratings).

The other half being things wiki rules don't allow (offscreen regeneration) or just a normal power being labelled as such for no reason.

And it kinda comes down to the point that if we do so, then we should add stuff like CIS in P&A for the same reason.
I could justify a tons of useless and not ability stuff by saying it's popular and has a purpose. Like the "Delayed Slash" tropes.

 

[DontTalkDT]

There's humorous and inconsistent stuff who aren't Toon Force though.

Also half the time the Toon Force is just here without saying which feat is one, unless you mean we should consider the entire character as inconsistent (in which case how are we even giving it ratings).

The other half being things wiki rules don't allow (offscreen regeneration) or just a normal power being labelled as such for no reason.

And it kinda comes down to the point that if we do so, then we should add stuff like CIS in P&A for the same reason.
I could justify a tons of useless and not ability stuff by saying it's popular and has a purpose. Like the "Delayed Slash" tropes.

Toonforce is a big hint as for what is going on and from there one can look further.
I would much rather have Toonforce listed on the profile, and know what's going on, than have all those profiles list reality warping instead and think it's a regular form of such an ability.

In an ideal world this stuff is clarified in detailed explanations, but we all know how things end up in practice.

The Standard Tactics and Weakness sections exist for CIS btw. That should be on the profile. (and often it's not just CIS. It sometimes can't be used in a non-humorous manner)

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I did. Besides so far we never treated it the way you said, so change the standard abt it first.

From what I've seen, you didn't, but if I missed it feel free to post the comment. Also,the reason we didn't apply this standard is because we have Toon Force which lets use know that said characters have abilities unconnected to themselves and more often then not, they aren't consistent because of their nature. So this argument is irrelevent.

Then why don't we do the same for characters without Toon Force?
It's a nonsensical double standard which invent an issue (since it never was treated that way) for the sole reason of irrelevant.

Because non cartoon (gag) characters are serious and we have no reason to assume their abilities aren't random, meanwhile, said gag characters will continuously showcase abilities like regeneration or stopping themselves in mid air but then need to go to the hospital for a minor injury and later can't stop themselves from falling. This is common knowledge so their is no double standard.

If you think they don't deserve their abilities, you shouldn't have given them to begin with.
Doesn't change the fact that unless we start creating pages like "Power of Friendship" to explain nonsense boost then we have no use for a trope. Hell only very few characters actually acknowledged their powers as Toon Force.

When did I say they didn't deserve the ability? I didn't. Your the one that's trying to delete something without any understanding of a solid replacement because literally majority of the character who are toon (gag) character will lose their abilities because we are no longer treating them in such a manner and thus we need to apply a consistency rule. Unless you write on every character page (who utilizes Toon Force) that they are random in what they can do. Also, you don't need the verse to tell you they are using toon force, as anyone with commen sense would see it's a cartoon (gag) and know said abilities are treated as such.

Regardless, I'm changing my stance to disagreeing with the removal. Your arguments aren't convincing me.

 

[Antvasima]

I just don’t see the point, there’s no egregious harm being done to the wiki by having toon force, a widely recognised ability/trope, listed, even if it’s not the best option it works well enough

But you still haven't provided a solid solution to the issue of the characters inconsistent abilities.

You keep saying "just replace them with said abilities that they are" but completely ignore that many of these characters don't have these abilities on a consistent basis and thus we would half to either not give it to them in general which would leave them will little to nothing or simply say "said characters abilities activate at random".

Personally, I'm in favour of keeping it. Not for its effects, but for its limitations.
Something being listed as Toonforce instead of Reality Warping is just a big warning sign for likely humorous and/or inconsistent use. And it's a widespread style to use various abilities which is even officially acknowledged in multiple works.
So in my book it has a purpose and popularity, which is enough to justify its existence.

Toonforce is a big hint as for what is going on and from there one can look further.
I would much rather have Toonforce listed on the profile, and know what's going on, than have all those profiles list reality warping instead and think it's a regular form of such an ability.

In an ideal world this stuff is clarified in detailed explanations, but we all know how things end up in practice.

The Standard Tactics and Weakness sections exist for CIS btw. That should be on the profile. (and often it's not just CIS. It sometimes can't be used in a non-humorous manner)

I agree with all of the above. My apologies, QuasiYuri.

 

[Propellus]

I don't really see any reason for this to be deleted anyways

 

[TheGreatBanana]

I disgree with deletion. Especially when there are characters that outright differentiate between normal abilities/RW and toon force.

 

[Bobsican]

Reality Warping in itself is already a questionable power to have as it's as much of a blanket term for "any sort of power whatsoever" as Toon Force, so I'm not sure if arguments to preserve Toon Force to avoid users just indexing stuff as RW are any better than just removing both.

While inconsistency with no serious reason is a characteristic trait of the "main" characters with Toon Force, we also have to keep in mind our standards and how they may not align with them.
Are we going to take author intent and take any "strongest" character in a setting with omnipotence statements to be tier 0? Of course not
Similarly, as bad as it may sound to some, if powers are "random" and aren't consistent to begin with (Even if that's the entire premise), they should just fall as outliers and not be inherently granted to a character's capabilities for our purposes, it's already questionable as is for us to take a single random feat that's not meant to be taken seriously to claim a character is X tier even if they're generally portrayed to struggle with far less stuff, let alone how it appears we apply policy on outliers on anything whatsoever but we're very lenient at best to P&As on this regard.

 

[Propellus]

Since the deletion of Toon Force is rejected, shall we go with Eficiente's idea instead and just simply the page?

I get the idea, but we can simply just rewrite the page a bit to fix the isssues. It could start like this:

"Toon Force is not a superpower, but a trope [explain]. For the purpose of this wiki, Toon Force can be given to profiles who have other, actual abilities whose use can be associated with Toon Force, but the latter is still not a superpower. This can particularly come in handy if one were to separate natural, serious abilities a character may have from random, more inconsistent & all over the place abilities that come from Toon Force (See for example Timmy Turner's profile), or when the abilities a character has that "come from Toon Force" are not worth writing as their own powers (If for example a character has minor Reality Warping)"

This being a very rough example.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if modifying the page in the manner that Eficiente suggested is good or not. What do other members here think?

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if modifying the page in the manner that Eficiente suggested is good or not. What do other members here think?

@DontTalkDT @LordGriffin1000

 

[Pikaman]

It needs shaping as it’s a rough draft but the concept is good

 

[Pikaman]

Oh wait you mean staff input my bad

 

[Therefir]

I am not sure if modifying the page in the manner that Eficiente suggested is good or not. What do other members here think?

Eficiente's suggestion should be fine in paper (though it needs some work).

I also agree that removing an extremely popular trope and replacing it with powers that they cannot consistently perform is a terrible idea.

I'm also perplexed by the idea of a single person changing hundreds of profiles and not getting completely burned out in the first 30-50. I appreciate the effort but there is no way we should let someone go through that.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Therefir.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Saying toon force is not a superpower sounds kinda weird, as it is kinda a canonical power of some characters. It's just that, similar to powers like reality warping or magic, its capabilities are specified through other abilities.
I think the idea to mention that the range of capabilities toon force gives is clarified by other abilities on the profile is good, though.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation.

We should probably go with DontTalk's solution then.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Saying toon force is not a superpower sounds kinda weird, as it is kinda a canonical power of some characters. It's just that, similar to powers like reality warping or magic, its capabilities are specified through other abilities.
I think the idea to mention that the range of capabilities toon force gives is clarified by other abilities on the profile is good, though.

I agree with this.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

I agree with DontTalk. Calling "Toon force a trope" make it sound like it's a genre of a fictional work rather than a power. Especially when alot of "toon force users [Dr.slump characters, looney tunes, the mask etc...] specifically refer to thier "toon force" as an ability, which it is.
How about this:
Toon force:
Toon force is an ability that refers to character manipulating reality in order to achieve imposible feats and comedic effects. The users bend reality in such a way to make situations "Comedic" and "Funny." Not to he confused with Reality warping which effects reality in a more serious way.

 

[Agnaa]

I agree with the OP's suggestion to delete the page. I think suggestions to reword the page to say that it's a trope are a bad idea.

However, I'd like to know what to we consider the alternative when regarding regeneration? Cartoon characters can sometimes regenerate from being crushed but then are seemingly about to die from a fall or get a broken limb and need medical attention. This was used as Toon Force but if that gets removed then what? We ignore the regeneration or not? It's something that clearly varies.

Either the character regenerating, or the character requiring medical attention, is an outlier. The series should be looked at closely to see which one is more consistent. That's what we do for every verse that isn't a cartoon, and I think cartoons should start meeting those standards too, instead of handwaving it with "Toon Force".

(Or as others said, their bodies are elastic, rather than them regenerating from fatal wounds)

It's do to their cartoon nature that they randomly do these things.

Is that actually something said in the text, or is it an assumption you're pulling from nowhere? Because if it is said in the series that they sometimes have regeneration and sometimes don't, that can easily be indexed.

This is my concern as well. It is much more practical to categorise what they are doing as Toon Force, i.e. specific types of reality warping connected to a cartoony nature. The alternatives would turn much more complicated and hard to properly define.

But as the OP says, we either already do that, or can redefine it as just "Reality Warping". We don't need to specify RW having a cartoony nature any more than we need to specify stat amp having a "power of friendship" nature.

Meh, I feel it's too late to do a deletion on this scale, so may files JUST list toon force and call it a day afterall,

Delete and redirect to Reality Warping.

Something being listed as Toonforce instead of Reality Warping is just a big warning sign for likely humorous and/or inconsistent use. And it's a widespread style to use various abilities which is even officially acknowledged in multiple works.

I would much rather have Toonforce listed on the profile, and know what's going on, than have all those profiles list reality warping instead and think it's a regular form of such an ability.

and often it's not just CIS. It sometimes can't be used in a non-humorous manner

Sometimes non-cartoon characters have weak, largely useless forms of Reality Warping that can only be used in specific situations. But we have to index them as Reality Warping anyway. Any confusion should be cleared up with explanations in the profile. I don't think a solution for 8% of the profiles on the wiki that encourages bad editing habits is a good solution.

Reality Warping in itself is already a questionable power to have as it's as much of a blanket term for "any sort of power whatsoever" as Toon Force, so I'm not sure if arguments to preserve Toon Force to avoid users just indexing stuff as RW are any better than just removing both.

You can't remove RW, there are a wide variety of niche situations that can only be covered by RW.

Saying toon force is not a superpower sounds kinda weird, as it is kinda a canonical power of some characters. It's just that, similar to powers like reality warping or magic, its capabilities are specified through other abilities.

And some characters do literally have the power of friendship. Sometimes abilities are used as tropes, and sometimes those tropes are given as explanations of the abilities, yet that is no reason to create a separate ability for the trope; the trope is the subset, not a different set.

Toon force is an ability that refers to character manipulating reality in order to achieve imposible feats and comedic effects. The users bend reality in such a way to make situations "Comedic" and "Funny." Not to he confused with Reality warping which effects reality in a more serious way.

So toon force should be given to trickster gods, and any characters that use their abilities in impossible but comedic ways in any medium?

This sort of thing is why toon force is so troublesome.

 

[Bobsican]

Reality Warping in itself is already a questionable power to have as it's as much of a blanket term for "any sort of power whatsoever" as Toon Force, so I'm not sure if arguments to preserve Toon Force to avoid users just indexing stuff as RW are any better than just removing both.

You can't remove RW, there are a wide variety of niche situations that can only be covered by RW.

Such as? RW in itself already has as "types" several other powers with their own pages to begin with.

 

[Agnaa]

Such as? RW in itself already has as "types" several other powers with their own pages to begin with.

Looking at the pages which I've given RW...

Applied Kabbalah lets users step into a higher world, manipulating its contents to create effects on physical reality. These manipulations involve taking words, adding and removing vowels, rearranging letters, translating between languages, and a wide variety of other bits of semantic manipulation outlined in the blog. Once a word has been changed into another word, a small portion of reality is changed in accordance with that. Some users have used it to perform a "rapid decomposition of reality", which manifests as fire which does not create a sound.

SCP-3143 can flatten portions of reality into a narrative, when the narrative reaches its conclusion, the events from it are then applied to reality.

Koyomi Araragi, on a town-wide scale, materialized the regrets and bad memories people were trying to leave behind, the effects of which happened to compose about 12 other abilities.

Ougi Oshino made it so that objects in a certain room could not be harmed; a desk thrown at a window didn't cause a single scratch, and neither the desk nor its contents suffered any damage on landing, and a pen taking to a chalkboard created no sound, left no mark, and no ink.

The commonality I see between these is either abilities, that by the nature of their well-explained fundamentals, necessarily involve a wide variety of minor abilities which go beyond the specific instances shown in the story (most of applied kabbalah, plus 3143 and koyomi; characters that simply have abilities which we don't know the capabilities of wouldn't qualify, these are for larger abilities that manifest in ways that can be described through other abilities), or are so strange that I and everyone else I asked couldn't come up with a name for it besides "reality warping" (the "rapid decomposition of reality" used in applied kabbalah, ougi's modification of objects in a room).

I've avoided giving Reality Warping to gods, transcendent plot manipulators, and the like, as they haven't met those requirements of mine.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I think this is pretty dumb.

Toon Force exists to showcase that a character can passively defy the laws of reality and ignore logic sometimes (and in certain cases purposely) for comedic effect, usually given to goofy characters who don't care about consistency (typically most cartoons). The keywords being "passively," "defying logic," and "goofy".

Reality Warping is used more intentionally and in a more serious tone, and it's not always passive. RW CAN influence the plot, it CAN perform basically all the functions of Toon Force, but the key difference is that one is inherently passive due to the character's very nature and existence being made to be humorous and isn't always consistent. Someone equated it to that of a physiology which holds some truth. Hell, Toon Force, Reality Warping, Fate Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Supernatural Luck/Probability Manipulation can ALL do the same things, essentially and are quite similar amongst each other in that their range of applications can be essentially endless. However, each one has a specific niche to them. For Toon Force, I'd postulate that unlike most cases of RW, it's much more of a physical ability. It relates to what the character can tank, dish out, and manipulate utilizing unconventional means. I've yet to see a TF user warp an entire background; instead, they use screen transitions/cutaways if they want to change the environment usually. Not really a useful tool in battle but it's not something reality warpers typically do. Toon Force I'd say has a very close-knitted relationship with 4th Wall Awareness, manipulating plot, and ignoring reality for gags. How can one not see how it's inherently different to RW which is just a general vague supernatural power for people who can manipulate reality. I'd argue Toon Force has been much more defined.

We already have overlap with abilities on the wiki as well so I don't see why this is such an issue. And like others have said, I can't wait to trudge through every single toon force user's media to define every single ability they've showcased under the umbrella label of Toon Force and also judge their every feat to determine if it's a gag and thus unusable or not; yet I also can't wait for the alternative where we just delete every toon character off the wiki because apparently they don't have any abilities at all and all their feats are simply gags.

 

[Agnaa]

Toon Force exists to showcase that a character can passively defy the laws of reality and ignore logic sometimes (and in certain cases purposely) for comedic effect, usually given to goofy characters who don't care about consistency (typically most cartoons). The keywords being "passively," "defying logic," and "goofy".

Some characters passively defy logic to win against all odds because they're the main character, and because that outcome leads to a satisfying story. That's got two of your keywords. Sometimes this is even explicitly an ability! That does not mean that we need a new ability called "Main Character", and that we can gloss over any inconsistencies main characters in stories where this isn't a stated ability have as them being the main character, and give them broken unsubstantiated passive probability/plot manip based on that.

It relates to what the character can tank, dish out, and manipulate utilizing unconventional means.

I don't think that's really enough to justify a different ability.

I can't wait to trudge through every single toon force user's media to define every single ability they've showcased under the umbrella label of Toon Force and also judge their every feat to determine if it's a gag and thus unusable or not.

It's an indexing wiki. Properly and comprehensively indexing powers isn't something that should make people recoil in horror, imo.

 

[QuasiYuri]

If you people can still find a way to justify even that, then this wiki's never going to live up to the accuracy it wants to have.

Don't forget to rename P&A "Power, Abilities & Tropes" and to add Butt-Monkey, Mary Sue, Game Mechanics or Rule of Cool.

Wouldn't want to half-do things, would we?

 

[TheGreatBanana]

I still...don't really understand why it should be deleted. Because it's a "Trope"? That is well...quite wrong. A character getting slashed and the effect of such slash are delayed, that is a trope. A character getting nose bleed as a response to an erotic situation is a trope. A character using BS and unconvintioanl abilities/RW to warp reality in order to create "Funny" and "Comedic" scenes or Warp reality in a "Funny" way is an ability. I would've initially agreed with it's deletion, but sadly alot of verses do acknowledge "Toon force " and "gag abilites" as...well abilities that are diffrent than "serious abilities. " heck, take Dr.slump for exapmle, the characters have been stated to not to die because of thier gag nature, the entire world is gag-ish. Even when arale meets Goku and the gang, they all treat her powers as different than theirs, heck her "Toon force" can't be countered by "Serious fighting."

 

[Agnaa]

@TheGreatBanana More because its only distinction from other abilities on the site is that it's a trope. I think it should just be indexed as those other abilities.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Something being listed as Toonforce instead of Reality Warping is just a big warning sign for likely humorous and/or inconsistent use. And it's a widespread style to use various abilities which is even officially acknowledged in multiple works.

I would much rather have Toonforce listed on the profile, and know what's going on, than have all those profiles list reality warping instead and think it's a regular form of such an ability.

and often it's not just CIS. It sometimes can't be used in a non-humorous manner

Sometimes non-cartoon characters have weak, largely useless forms of Reality Warping that can only be used in specific situations. But we have to index them as Reality Warping anyway. Any confusion should be cleared up with explanations in the profile. I don't think a solution for 8% of the profiles on the wiki that encourages bad editing habits is a good solution.

So do you want to go around and add these explanations to all the profiles? It's a nice idealistic stance, but in my experience with the wiki expecting the explanations to be consistently done, or especially reworked for current profiles, is quite simply unrealistic.

The fact that reality warping is sometimes listed for minor uses has no impact on the argument. It has the same problems, just that contrary to toon force we don't have an already existing and widespread way of improving upon it.

 

[Agnaa]

So do you want to go around and add these explanations to all the profiles? It's a nice idealistic stance, but in my experience with the wiki expecting the explanations to be consistently done, or especially reworked for current profiles, is quite simply unrealistic.

The fact that reality warping is sometimes listed for minor uses has no impact on the argument. It has the same problems, just that contrary to toon force we don't have an already existing and widespread way of improving upon it.

QuasiYuri has offered to do it.

And overall, I don't think it's too much of a loss to have my idea; redirect from Toon Force to Reality Warping. That should keep the explanatory power you seem to want from the current pages without requiring any work, and encourages later pages to properly explain them instead.

EDIT: This would also let a replacement project have more room to breathe.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Redirecting toon force..to RW? Why? Why would we redirect a different abilty to one another? Especially when said abilities are most of the time treated vastly aa different and seperate.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't think they usually are treated differently enough, RW seems close for the majority of situations. The only potential exception I see would be characters who have Toon Force exclusively for what would be better indexed as Elasticity.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

But they are tho. They are always [well most cases] treated as completely different abilites. Yes, "Toon force" is similar to RW, no one is denying that. Thier basic principle is that they warp reality, that we all agree on. But each has specific conditions to either be lebaled as "Toon force" or "Reality warping". Resistance to one doesn't mean you resist the other, having one doesn't mean you have the other. Dr.slump, looney tunes etc...all treat "Toon force" as an abilty separated from Normal RW [Especially Dr.slump]. So far the reasons to delete Toom force is because it 's a trope or just RW. Which are both wrong.
1- It's just a trope!

Sadly, this is wrong. A trope is similar/ or is s theme in a work of fiction. Calling toon force a trope is like equating it to "Horro" or "Adventure". Those are tropes that explain tge nature of a work. "Toon force" is an ability in fictional works. It's like calling "RW" or "Elemental manipulation" a trope. Which i don't need to say how dumb is that.

2- It's just RW.

Using this logic, RW would just be matter manip+space time manip+ HDM. Yes "Toon force" is similar to RW. But many works of fiction depicts the two as different abilites and that should be enough to treat them as such.

So, for all of these reasons i laid, i must Disagree with the premise of this thread.