Toon Force possible deletion

[QuasiYuri]

People will think I'm only in favor of downgrades and deletions one day

So, everyone knows Toon Force. You do funny reality/logic-breaking shit, everyone laughs, that's all folks. I want to remove that. Won't be as structured as I usually do because I think it's quite uncontroversial.

My concern would be kinda similar to the failed Plot Manipulation thread aka that it is just aesthetic and not an ability.
And while Plot Manipulation had the argument that it was easier to have it for some powers which would be awkward to fit in other categories (which I don't really agree with, but that's besides the point), Toon Force doesn't have this excuse.

Toon Force is, as our page says, literaly just funny unreal things.

I mean, even the "Toon Force" users we have don't have it as a specific ability and every done "through Toon Force" is already another ability they have on their profile. Everything done is put as its respective ability, and you have a poor alone "Toon Force" with no justifications in 99% of the cases.

And the line for when it qualifies or not is pretty blurry.
For instance Monkey D. Luffy, with the recent chapters, don't get Toon Force because it's just how his fruit works. However, The Mask, who has actual magical powers, is considered to be Toon Force. I'm obviously not saying that Luffy has toon force or anything like that, but there's no real criteria.

However I think the most important is also that Toon Force is not an ability. It's a trope. Something both Wikipedia and TV Tropes seems to agree on. It's just a bunch of widespread animation devices used mainly for humor.

And according to the two, they have equivalent. While you could argue it's not exactly the same, The Lexicon of Cominaca is considered its comics equivalent on some level (at least by Wikipedia), and TV Tropes consider stuff like One Piece's reason for Zoro being able to talk and reasoning for Nami's gag scenes for instance. Not really strong points, but it does help the idea that's it's more a matter of tropes than anything else.

And at last, you have examples where it is acknowledged in-verse, like DC's Captain Carrot, Arale in the DBS ep or Skullgirl's Peacock.

For them, the treatment shouldn't be any different from other cases of "tropes used in-verse" (hearing in spite of ridiculous conditions; characters disappearing when out of sight, friendship power, etc...)

They just get the abilities they have shown to have, and the reason why is secondary. Which is something we already do but just add a meaningless Toon Force to the P&A.

Overall: it's not useful, not used, not an ability, and removing it doesn't have any negatives.

As such, the page should be nuked and its users should lose it.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes

 

[Damage3245]

Fully agreed with this. It's redundant.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Agreed. Get it gone.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I guess this is fine.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I don't even know what the Toon force Power really is. Reality Warping + Gag ?

 

[Jibz]

Nuke please

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I don't even know what the Toon force Power really is. Reality Warping + Gag ?

In a way, it's basically screwing with reality but in a goofy manner like how the Road Runner paints a tunnel on a giant stone wall then can run through it as if it were real but then the Coyote tries to do the same but smashes into the wall. It varies in effect but in a way, it can just be seen as other abilities used in a cartoon manner.

However, I'd like to know what to we consider the alternative when regarding regeneration? Cartoon characters can sometimes regenerate from being crushed but then are seemingly about to die from a fall or get a broken limb and need medical attention. This was used as Toon Force but if that gets removed then what? We ignore the regeneration or not? It's something that clearly varies.

 

[Propellus]

Not sure if this necessarily should be removed since this is a really vital ability for most cartoon characters that has this kind of ability at this disposal. And by removing this, wouldn't this defeat the purpose of what most cartoon characters can do by using their toon force?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Remove it from Stitch’s profile first please

 

[Arceus0x]

I think most of the cases are just limited reality warping anyways

 

[Pikaman]

I have no issue nuking the power if we have alternatives for most/all showcasings of it, but we should make absolute sure there’s alternatives for every widespread ability currently listed under Toon Force

 

[Zencha9]

Not sure if this necessarily should be removed since this is a really vital ability for most cartoon characters that has this kind of ability at this disposal. And by removing this, wouldn't this defeat the purpose of what most cartoon characters can do by using their toon force?

Then just list it under reality warping since it's basically that "funny reality warping"
or just replace all toon force with reality warping and call it toonforce since it's a popular term i guess, just like how in some profiles there's Shockwave Generation/Creation even though it links to air manip

 

[Zencha9]

Anyways forgot to say that i completely agree

 

[Pikaman]

replace all toon force with reality warping and call it toonforce since it's a popular term i guess, just like how in some profiles there's Shockwave Generation/Creation even though it links to air manip

That sounds the best idea ye

 

[Armorchompy]

However, I'd like to know what to we consider the alternative when regarding regeneration? Cartoon characters can sometimes regenerate from being crushed but then are seemingly about to die from a fall or get a broken limb and need medical attention. This was used as Toon Force but if that gets removed then what? We ignore the regeneration or not? It's something that clearly varies.

Elasticity imo, it was agreed it shouldn't be regen in a thread sometime ago

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not sure if this necessarily should be removed since this is a really vital ability for most cartoon characters that has this kind of ability at this disposal. And by removing this, wouldn't this defeat the purpose of what most cartoon characters can do by using their toon force?

It really wouldn't. We already gave them abilities based on their own feats. Otherwise we should have to include trope-based stuff as the ability + its associated trope, which doesn't work well imo.

I have no issue nuking the power if we have alternatives for most/all showcasings of it, but we should make absolute sure there’s alternatives for every widespread ability currently listed under Toon Force

We already have them covered in the profiles of all the users as far as I've seen. And I honestly don't see anything that can't have an alternative.

However, I'd like to know what to we consider the alternative when regarding regeneration? Cartoon characters can sometimes regenerate from being crushed but then are seemingly about to die from a fall or get a broken limb and need medical attention. This was used as Toon Force but if that gets removed then what? We ignore the regeneration or not? It's something that clearly varies.

Elasticity would be the way.

Then just list it under reality warping since it's basically that "funny reality warping"
or just replace all toon force with reality warping and call it toonforce since it's a popular term i guess, just like how in some profiles there's Shockwave Generation/Creation even though it links to air manip

I would kinda disagree. Besides Reality Warping being a bad power to begin with (too broad, no real reason to be a page to begin with), I just think there's no point in putting a trope name on an ability. Some "Toon Force users" also only have stuff like elasticity or 4th wall breaking but not actual RW.

 

[Propellus]

It really wouldn't. We already gave them abilities based on their own feats. Otherwise we should have to include trope-based stuff as the ability + its associated trope, which doesn't work well imo.

Yeah true, but the question still revolves around, where would their feats be coming from logically without the usage of the ability Toon Force since most of the abilities from most cartoon cartoons comes from that? And how would their feats happen without that happen?

 

[Propellus]

I mean, if this is going to be removed, then there needs to be a logical ability from where all the toon force characters get their abilities and their wacky stunts

 

[QuasiYuri]

Yeah true, but the question still revolves around, where would their feats be coming from logically without the usage of the ability Toon Force since most of the abilities from most cartoon cartoons comes from that? And how would their feats happen without that happen?

The same way any other do. You don't really need a precise explanation for things after all. Their feats just exist because they do.

Some characters just are born with abilities for no reason after all.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I mean, if this is going to be removed, then there needs to be a logical ability from where all the toon force characters get their abilities and their wacky stunts

There's no need for. Just are individual abilities.

We don't need explanations as to why dragons breathe fire or why Sonic has Super Speed after all. Same here.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Elasticity imo, it was agreed it shouldn't be regen in a thread sometime ago

Yes but that doesn't answer the inconsistency part. Remember, they aren't always portrayed as having these abilities. It's do to their cartoon nature that they randomly do these things.

 

[Propellus]

There's no need for. Just are individual abilities.

We don't need explanations as to why dragons breathe fire or why Sonic has Super Speed after all. Same here.

But those are way completely different things from what you see from most literal toon force feats overall. The difference on that side is more easier to explain. The other side is just simply way too wacky to properly get any sense of due to how random they are without the means of Toon Force.

The same way any other do. You don't really need a precise explanation for things after all. Their feats just exist because they do.

How does that make sense?

 

[KingTempest]

Yes but that doesn't answer the inconsistency part. Remember, they aren't always portrayed as having these abilities. It's do to their cartoon nature that they randomly do these things.

Maybe "they're gags" and don't add the abilities?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Maybe "they're gags" and don't add the abilities?

Then their pages might as well not exist when almost everything that do is random (I'm referring to dead on gag/toon characters like Loony Toons). They would have almost nothing using that logic.

 

[KingTempest]

Then their pages might as well not exist when almost everything that do is random (I'm referring to dead on gag/toon characters like Loony Toons). They would have almost nothing using that logic.

nevermind then

 

[WrongIdea21]

In a way, it's basically screwing with reality but in a goofy manner like how the Road Runner paints a tunnel on a giant stone wall then can run through it as if it were real but then the Coyote tries to do the same but smashes into the wall. It varies in effect but in a way, it can just be seen as other abilities used in a cartoon manner.

However, I'd like to know what to we consider the alternative when regarding regeneration? Cartoon characters can sometimes regenerate from being crushed but then are seemingly about to die from a fall or get a broken limb and need medical attention. This was used as Toon Force but if that gets removed then what? We ignore the regeneration or not? It's something that clearly varies.

I think whatever the Cartoon capable, such like Regeneation but in goffy ways, like Their Resistance to Heat when they got burned.

 

[Propellus]

Not sure if this necessarily should be removed since this is a really vital ability for most cartoon characters that has this kind of ability at this disposal. And by removing this, wouldn't this defeat the purpose of what most cartoon characters can do by using their toon force?

And also, speaking of which I disagree with this

 

[Dark-Carioca]

like how the Road Runner paints a tunnel on a giant stone wall then can run through it

If memory serves, it's the Coyote that does that in order for the Road Runner to slam into the mountain, only to smash right into it while the Road Runner runs through the tunnel.

Anyway...

Toon Force has been a weird power for a while, I've always felt that it should be added to the P&A section like this: "Toon Force (includes Reality Warping, Superhuman Physical Characteristics, etc)", since on the regular Toon Force-y characters will have Toon Force but not superhuman strength and the like, so the P&A section should list what abilities those characters have shown while under the effects of Toon Force. Manga/anime characters (other genres as well but these ones in particular) having so many gag moments so often is mostly tonal inconsistency on part of the authors or animators who don't wanna bother to explain it, they'll just know the audience will laugh at and run with it no matter how little it makes sense, unless the series was comedic to begin with (Dr. Slump, Pucca, etc).

Toon Force should be rephrased in P&A sections, not deleted from the wiki entirely, because it's still a noteworthy aspect of battleboarding discussions under many parameters.

 

[Arceus0x]

I've been thinking, how about creating "Place manipulation". Basically the ability to create rooms, places ect. out of nowhere or seal them back up. Specifically in that comical sense though it also works in other cases as well

 

[Propellus]

I've been thinking, how about creating "Place manipulation". Basically the ability to create rooms, places ect. out of nowhere or seal them back up. Specifically in that comical sense though it also works in other cases as well

You might wanna save that up for another thread tho

 

[Arceus0x]

You might wanna save that up for another thread tho

Ik but we have to replace toon force abilities with others.

 

[Bobsican]

That's just Pocket Reality Manipulation if anything.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Ik but we have to replace toon force abilities with others.

We already do it perfectly.

 

[Jibz]

I've been thinking, how about creating "Place manipulation". Basically the ability to create rooms, places ect. out of nowhere or seal them back up. Specifically in that comical sense though it also works in other cases as well

Pretty sure we already have hax that'd fall under

 

[Arceus0x]

Pretty sure we already have hax that'd fall under

Which is..?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Which is..?

Pocket Reality or just Creation

 

[Jibz]

^

 

[Arceus0x]

Pocket Reality or just Creation

Then how do you explain when pink panther grabs a door and slams it on the ground and the stairs inside which went up now go down?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Then how do you explain when pink panther grabs a door and slams it on the ground and the stairs inside which went up now go down?

Pocket Reality Manipulation