Tokita Ohma vs Silver (8-A Tourney)

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Tokita Ohma vs Silver the Hedgehog (Base)

Speed unequalized; SBA

 

[ShakeResounding]

Ohma is the more skilled of the two, with plenty of different techniques and some aura-fuckery that could easily snag him a win.

But I don't think there's anything stopping Silver from out-ranging Tokita and crushing him in his grip with Class T Lifting Strength, is there? Not to mention he's a small bit faster, which would make it easier for Silver to just TK grab since it's more difficult for Silver the faster his enemy is compared to him.

Gonna wait for more people but I'm leaning towards Silver.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Pretty sure Silver could and would in-character use his Psychokinesis to hold Ohma in place. He has no chance of escaping it due to the massive gap. From there, Silver can toss him around without getting close or use his superior AP to crush him.

From what I'm reading (It's a very long scaling chain, so forgive me if I'm wrong), Tokita scales to 108 Tons. Silver scales to 877 Tons

Silver is, therefore, 8.1x stronger. That puts him in 1-shot range. So crushing him should work, or even just striking him or throwing things at him.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So I’m the Ohma guy here lol. So wanna ask a few questions

Does Sliver start outright with crushing with his TK?

Also for Ohma scaling his scaling is really good just from the base feat alone and has a 3.33 amps that can boost his stats and speed. Hell with the amps he can probably match Sliver and take hits due to his amps

 

[ShakeResounding]

Soda?! Man, what are the odds haha.

Silver doesn't immediately go for a crush from the bat, but he always goes for TK like a smoker going for a cigarette break (and a TK crush is generally in-character for him). Silver also usually plays the range game when available.

 

[LaserPrecision]

While crushing the opponent may not be the first thing he does, he definitely starts with Psychokinesis. That's essentially how he approaches every fight. I don't think I've seen a single fight where he doesn't start and use Psychokinesis throughout the entire fight.

He crushes things when he wants to finish something quickly. I assume if Ohma lasts any significant amount of time, Silver would be likely to just crush him instead after becoming impatient. He's more likely to grab onto him with PK and throw him around or launch things at him.

A 3.3x amp is good, but how can you assert that the amps he receives puts him on par with Silver when even with the 3.3x amp he's still 2.4x weaker than Silver.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Silver also seems to have an ever-so-slight edge in speed (Supersonic vs Supersonic+)

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Soda?! Man, what are the odds haha.

Silver doesn't immediately go for a crush from the bat, but he always goes for TK like a smoker going for a cigarette break (and a TK crush is generally in-character for him). Silver also usually plays the range game when available.

I know lol

Ok I’ll give my response in like a few minutes

 

[LaserPrecision]

Good catch. I think this is one-sided. Maybe a stomp even when you consider Silver's PK and massive LS advantage. But Tokita at least wouldn't be in 1-shot range with the 3.3x amp.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Good catch. I think this is one-sided. Maybe a stomp even when you consider Silver's PK and massive LS advantage. But Tokita at least wouldn't be in 1-shot range with the 3.3x amp.

Ehh since he doesn’t start with outright TK ohma does have options. In fact he has way to deal with a lot for slivers stuff ( unless he grabs ohma from the start lol )

 

[ShakeResounding]

Oh, I think I didn't say things good enough. Silver DOES start with TK, he just doesn't start with TK crush. My bad if that wasn't clear

I'm starting to think a Class T TK spammer maybe wasn't the best for a tournament setting lol

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Oh, I think I didn't say things good enough. Silver DOES start with TK, he just doesn't start with TK crush. My bad if that wasn't clear

I'm starting to think a Class T TK spammer maybe wasn't the best for a tournament setting lol

Yeah especially with a guy who’s main thing is close combat, why you have to do this to me Shake

Well then there’s not a lot Ohma can do then. Even with his advanced it’s only class M vs class T. Ohma has was to neg dura and amps to his 3.33x to boost the stats even further. Also DB is insane and if Sliver does get hit by it he will get ******. But that’s if he doesn’t just hold Ohma in place

 

[LaserPrecision]

Given Silver starts with and really only uses PK (Just to clarify, I use PK to refer to Psychokinesis rather than TK since it's essentially the same thing and inverse they refer to it as PK), I definitely seem him winning. Ohma won't get the chance to land a hit either since Silver also has a slight speed advantage. Even if Silver doesn't start with PK, he's likely to slam him around, create a psychokinesis construct, or even hit him with the surroundings which I assume all scale to his AP anyways?

In addition, Silver has a counter to durability negation. Silver can create barriers to tank hits for him.

Yea, I'm voting Silver. I think Ohma got a bad first match-up.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Yeah rip Ohma

I really wanted to go into his skill against other characters however, he got dealt a bad match up here.

Silver for PK class T that’s probably gonna sweep the entire tour for my vote

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah rip Ohma

I really wanted to go into his skill against other characters however, he got dealt a bad match up here.

Silver for PK class T that’s probably gonna sweep the entire tour for my vote

May have gone overboard when I picked him. I'm hoping he has to fight Sonic, that may be interesting

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Guess I’ll make a Losers Bracket for characters that were down on their luck in the RNG process

 

[ShakeResounding]

I really wanted to go into his skill against other characters

Honestly same

Guess I’ll make a Losers Bracket for characters that were down on their luck in the RNG process

Mav to the rescue?!

 

[Chariot190]

8-A

Class T

There's literally no way, he'd be well within tier 7 with that type of LS.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yea, he's pretty busted.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So…

What are we going proceed with Silver?

 

[Chariot190]

No I mean that literally, at 800 million tons, he'd be 7-C easy with that amount of LS. Literally. In the same vain someone with Class M can't be 9-B, or someone with Class G can't be 8-C, borderline Class T hits a point where that much force being exerted, or rather, acted against, would be tier 7 no matter what you do.

I'd calculate it further to get the AP, but, it being telekinetic makes it kinda hard to do, usually I'd start with getting the movement of the character or object first in relation to the force exerted but psychic energy says no.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

So…

What are we going proceed with Silver?

Might as well.

 

[LaserPrecision]

No I mean that literally, at 800 million tons, he'd be 7-C easy with that amount of LS. Literally. In the same vain someone with Class M can't be 9-B, or someone with Class G can't be 8-C, borderline Class T hits a point where that much force being exerted, or rather, acted against, would be tier 7 no matter what you do.

I'd calculate it further to get the AP, but, it being telekinetic makes it kinda hard to do, usually I'd start with getting the movement of the character or object first in relation to the force exerted but psychic energy says no.

Lifting Strength and Attack Potency aren't at all linked on this site. They have no hold or correlation on one another. I recently made a Q&A regarding this question to make sure, and I was told that Lifting Strength alone can't be used as a way to win/kill an opponent by itself. But rather just to restrain a character. The reason we say he crushes the opponent here is because he exerts AP onto his Lifting Strength to do so.

I can link the Q&A thread if you wish.

 

[Chariot190]

Lad, you don't seem to understand.

AP =/= LS, but LS can be used to gain an AP, it's not mutually exclusive. And you're right, it can't be used to kill an opponent or win, at least not innately, like a Class M planet buster isn't gonna be doing **** all to someone with 5-B durability, but a Class Y 5-B on the other hand, well he very well just might.

But we're talking 800,000,000 million tons of force, ****, the value here in this specific case is quite LITERALLY used to damage something mate. But no, not how it works, for example, say someone lifted 10,000 tons above their head 1m, that's LS sure, but we can also get an AP for it for example by using PE.

M = 10000000

G = 9.81.

H = 1m.

Ep = 10000000 x 9.81 x 1 = 98100000 joules, 0.0234 tons of TNT, 9-A.

For example, as you can see it's very easy to get AP off LS, even if the inverse isn't possible, like you could get the force of a punch, but that won't scale to LS, but you can get the force of a lift and apply that to AP, or another example, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dark-Carioca/OG_King_Kong_Feats#Kong_bends_a_metal_door

This accepted KIng Kong calc, where he bends a metal door, both an AP and a LS have been gained off the same exact feat and calculation. Which is the case here, Silver's LS is actually him applying telekinetic force onto an object, it's not just him lifting, he's actively applying that pressure in an offensive manner, it's AP, and can probably even be calculated as such, if I had to wager it'd probably be somewhere in the mid single digit kilotons.

The reason we say he crushes the opponent here is because he exerts AP onto his Lifting Strength to do so.

I mean, you'd be wrong, he crushes because he's applying 800 million tons of force of pressure into his telekinetic strength, that's kinda how crushing works.

 

[LaserPrecision]

In that case, what do we do? Can you get AP based on the feat, as you made it seem as though Psychokinetic feats are either not possible to calc, or very hard to.

Would Silver be excluded from the Tournament, or do we keep going?

 

[Chariot190]

It's possible, but TK makes it super ******* complicated and in need of some assumptions, if it was a normal feat, we'd just take the distance Silver applied the force (so if he moved his arm's like 0.5m, we could work with that and get an AP based on the surface area and whatever among other things, for example, like Spiderman catching a car, Raiden stopping outer haven, or Star Platinum stopping a truck), but he kinda just TK's it, which means, the only other way I think we could make work with it is via taking in the indentation of the metal, like if he crushed it and the metal caved in like 30m, we could work with that maybe? The TK aspect makes this extremely difficult. It might even make the feat way, way higher (Applying the force over a shorter distance increases the yield accordingly, applying 1 ton of force over 1m is gonna be less than 1ton of force applied overhalf a meter).

I'd say sure why not, keep him in for now, though consider him basically a low tier 7 in disguise, maybe be a tad lenient towards his foes so they don't just get TK crushed with like tier 7 force immediately.

 

[NikHelton]

So I’m the Ohma guy here lol. So wanna ask a few questions

Does Sliver start outright with crushing with his TK?

Also for Ohma scaling his scaling is really good just from the base feat alone and has a 3.33 amps that can boost his stats and speed. Hell with the amps he can probably match Sliver and take hits due to his amps

x3,33 is the Rejection multiplier.

The only Advance multiplier we know is a 2-fold increase in speed.