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Toaru Revisions

Ollerus was there with them, but half-dead and he wasn't between Silvia, Brun and Oth. He was in the general region, not in the open.
 
On the general: I agree to scale Ollerus as being faster than saints, even when half-dead.

Remove Kakine's awakening.

Properly scale Gunha.
 
So we have a general consensus with the Kakine key removal.

Most agree Ollerus's speed should be higher. Would everyone be ok with safely scaling to a Saints speed (MHS) since the feat isn't peak even Ollerus?

No one countered Lazy's Gunha argument I don't believe.
 
Ollerus and Othinus have FTL attack speed only, but... They were talking and attacking each other at the same time. Literally reacting to each other too.

What about MHS due to being faster than saints, possibly FTL combat speed due to the whole deal with Othinus?
 
Gunha could be high hypersonic +, just like other level 5 espers. but overall I agree with everything.
 
I've been re-reading this thread, and something caught my eye. Lazy hunter said early on that:

"We are shown multiple times in the series that power does not necessarily correlate with speed. Nerfed magic gods can stomps Saints, and so far they haven't shown significant speed levels. "

So I looked on High Priest's page, and his speed is listed as being "Unknown". Yet he also has a Striking feat for being able to casually slap back Mikoto's Railgun. Wouldn't that be enough grounds to give him at least supersonic speeds? Since the Railgun is noted for being 3x Speed of Sound.
 
I think we just have it at unknown because HP wasn't remotely exerting himself so we have no idea what his speed would be like. However that is a supersonic feat.
 
Well then it should be listed as "at least, possibly higher".

That's still more informative than what we have right now.

I suppose it can lumped together with the NT22 CRT (?)
 
Alright good.

Lastly, @XDragnoir What's the High Hypersonic feat that Gunha would scale too? Not sure if OP is still arguing but he wanted to upgrade his AP and speed but nobody has countered Lazy's post.
 
Zensum said:
Alright good.
Lastly, @XDragnoir What's the High Hypersonic feat that Gunha would scale too? Not sure if OP is still arguing but he wanted to upgrade his AP and speed but nobody has countered Lazy's post.
Click to expand...
It seems like he's being scaled from his fight with Lv.6Shift Mikoto. Lazy countered that she was holding back, and thus the AP could not be reliably quantified.

As for his speed, it's being scaled to Ollerus, I believe.
 
if Ollerus will be buffed for MHS, it would make more sense for Gunha to be buffed for high hypersonic, for two reasons: 1) he faced an Ollerus who was holding himself. 2) both Accel, Kakine and Salome are HH + with MHS combat speed
 
XDragnoir said:
if Ollerus will be buffed for MHS, it would make more sense for Gunha to be buffed for high hypersonic, for two reasons: 1) he faced an Ollerus who was holding himself. 2) both Accel, Kakine and Salome are HH + with MHS combat speed
Click to expand...
hey guys in case u missed gunha already has Massively Hypersonic reactions and close combat speed
 
I agree with LazyHunter in that Aurora Guard stuff should stay a separate thing for now.

Misaka's stuff aside from lightning is in base weaker than her lightning, so it is plausible that it is also that way in Level 6 Shift.


Gunha doesn't have any statements that would put him speed wise at saint speed or higher. The idea that since saints are described as unquantified supersonic and he as 2x the speed of sound he would scale, doesn't work for really obvious reasons.

Tanking Ollerus shows nothing, since Ollerus easily defeated and was likely holding back.


LazyHunter's reasoning regarding Ollerus catching the saints blade also is pretty solid.
 
Nah, Ollerus's speed feat is definitely able to be scaled. Silvia and Brunhilde were explicitly bloodlusted, and they were explicitly suprised at Ollerus's speed blitz. This is obviously an indication of his raw speed, since there's no evidence of him using Fiamma's Hide Presence spell. Not only did he never show the ability to produce it, but the narrator would have stated it if he did use it. The fact that the two Saints were unable to stop in time points toward them attacking at their max speeds, so there's no argument that they were "holding back" either
 
@DT Yea we weren't discussing Ollerus catching Bruinhilde's sword swing just cutting inbetween the two Saints moving at a decisive speed. Indifferent to the Gunha stuff.
 
I think

Upgrading Ollerus' speed to at least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher/possibly FTL. (I would put At least Massively Hypersonic, likely far higher instead though.)

Removing Kakine's awakening Key

and leaving Gunha's as it is for now are the best choices.
 
I'm fine with removing Kakine's key, I guess.


Scaling Ollerus in a state where he explicitely is weaker than your average magician to Massively Hypersonic saints for intercepting an attack explicitely at the speed of sound still makes absolutely no sense at all.

That he made up for it by will meant that he was willing to sacrifice his arms, not that he gained power out of nothing. To Aru isn't Fairy Tail. People don't power up through determination alone.

He should also not have FTL reactions, as that is a perception time feat.
 
@don't talk

just to know where do the nerfed MG get their 5 b dura from ? i reread nt 17 to be sure but both neph and niang used their own spell to deflect the attacks
 
DontTalkDT said:
I'm fine with removing Kakine's key, I guess.

Scaling Ollerus in a state where he explicitely is weaker than your average magician to Massively Hypersonic saints for intercepting an attack explicitely at the speed of sound still makes absolutely no sense at all.

That he made up for it by will meant that he was willing to sacrifice his arms, not that he gained power out of nothing. To Aru isn't Fairy Tail. People don't power up through determination alone.

He should also not have FTL reactions, as that is a perception time feat.
Click to expand...
Right, but the two Saints were explictly moving at maximum speed. We've been through this before, DT. Authorial Intent doesn't mean anything against calcs. They are MHS.

And "weaker" is a vague term. Weak in terms of what? Magic power? Physical durability? Don't be "that guy" who nitpicks vague details. We're talking about his speed, not strength.

So we should add a note stating that Ollerus is FTL perception speed.
 
@Malox: It would be good to not include more topics in this thread then there already are, so if the following answer doesn't satisfy you make a new thread on it.

As was priorly also written as justification on their pages "The nerfed Magic Gods can fight between themself without killing each other, treating it more like a way to play and release stress".

Niang Niang also once stated (Epilogue NT 13) that a magic god can take a single attack of another magic god.
 
DestinyDude0 said:
Right, but the two Saints were explictly moving at maximum speed. We've been through this before, DT. Authorial Intent doesn't mean anything against calcs. They are MHS.

And "weaker" is a vague term. Weak in terms of what? Magic power? Physical strength? Durability? Don't be like that DT. Don't be "that guy" who nitpicks vague details.

So we should add a note stating that Ollerus as FTL perception speed.
Click to expand...
This isn't a calc, this is a scaling attempt. If this were a calc you would instantly get this shot down as calc stacking, which is exactly because characters don't always move at top speed. In that very specific attack they very specifically moved at the speed of sound. If you want to argue feats > statements you would need a feat on that very specific move they made.


No weaker isn't vague here "The strength of his body and the magic he could use were both weaker than the average magician's." His bodies strength very specifically is weaker, so he will not be able run faster than your average magician. Nor can he magically raise his speed to greater degrees, since his magic is explicitly weaker as well.


It would be Relativistic perception if you really want to reword the profile.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Scaling Ollerus in a state where he explicitely is weaker than your average magician to Massively Hypersonic saints for intercepting an attack explicitely at the speed of sound still makes absolutely no sense at all.

That he made up for it by will meant that he was willing to sacrifice his arms, not that he gained power out of nothing. To Aru isn't Fairy Tail. People don't power up through determination alone.
Click to expand...
We are scaling Ollerus's regular speed to (at least MHS) based on what he could do in an powerless state. The part where he intercepts the weapon doesnt matter, what we care about is him cutting in between two serious Saints dashing at a descisve speed. The speed of Bruinhildes arm swinging her sword down is described as that speed, which is irreilvant anyways since we ignore countless >= sound related statements Saints get. If the Saint's are clearly serious and intending to kill the author intent doesnt matter and we can scale to their serious speed.

The "will made up for what he lacked" statement is talking about his willpower allowing him to perform these two feats while depowered without being instally killed, like what would happen to any normal human. Willpower is often referenced when crazy things happen in this verse. Case and point Touma.
 
@DontTalkDT How would it be relativistic? Fiamma's Holy Right is Lightspeed, and Othinus herself is listed as having FTL+ attack speed. That's an absurdly nonsensical lowball.

Your logic is that Ollerus had the body of a normal human and thus could not intercept the Saints' attacks, which is quite frankly irrelevant. Even assuming that the attacks were at supersonic speed, it would still be far beyond what a human body could move at.

See the point? According to your reasoning, Ollerus should be downgraded to Peak Human because that's how fast Biology says normal humans should be able to move. -_-

If the Saints were holding back on their speed, they would have stopped in time. But they did not stop in time. Therefore, they were moving at serious speeds. Duh.
 
Malox1696 said:
Guys, nerfed ollerus and mg ollerus are 2 different things u know that ?
Click to expand...
We are aware, yes. The FTL Perception speed is for Impure MG form, while the MHS reaction speed is for Fairy Spell form. The former should scale to the latter in terms of combat speed. Thanks for pointing that out anyways.
 
>people don't power up through determination alone.

Gunha says hello.

The way you are interpreting the text DT is contradicted by what actually happened.

Please save me the time of writing about why using the term supersonic is stupid for the third time.

I agree with zensum
 
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