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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 6

Scrlk666777 said:
No because Kakine creating a holistic esper isn't exactly true in the first place and why would it make him Tier 4 or 3-C? That makes no sense.
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Isn't true? I might have forgotten few things then.

Well, just like Forerunners , who is Tier 2-A but can't actually use it for combat. Forerunners' 2-A tiering is just for energy generation and can't be translated to pure AP.

Might be same case for holistic espers. But if Kakine didn't create it then I rest my case
 
I said exactly true not that it isn't fully true.

Kakine can't generate energy on that scale. He's town level only, possibly higher. Like everything else there are levels and holistic espers are no exception although Kakine isn't a holstic esper he only created a possible one. I say possible and not did though.
 
Kakine creating something /=/ his own AP unless he can actually use it. It's different from tech or an invention, and the holistic esper wasn't even stable either. (Though it's implied he made it faulty to get revenge on them). Also a hollistic esper would be 3-A/possibly 1-C since Hollism is about Macro to Quantum on a universal scale, effectively making the universe your own personal reality as a macro vs the micro of your body. Dark Matter is also not something you can quantify in tiering in that way since it's just constructing a body and ability. The effects are the fact aren't his doing nor related to his AP.
 
we don't know what the holistic esper did and it was even half a failure, it could have simply moved a rock in the ocean to create a mini impact on his palm , it does not require to be galaxy, just the phenom is opposite to the butterfly effect, something big causes something small
 
I was more thinking of the stuff they would be able to do. Of course they would have complete power over their respective abilities, vectors, dark matter, Electromagetism, Electrons and mental power. I won't include Gunha or the #6 here though.
 
No their power would exceed the simple limit of their ability, that's why only few cab actually reach lvl 6 while still being themself as the ability would transform and so themself Accel is pretty close to pure control with vector control and so is kekinay with dm, that why they are the only ones that can theorically reach it while not losing their mind
 
Malox1696 said:
they should be similar to MG but instead of controlling phases their AIM would control anything they wanted
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I just want to say that espers' AIM doesn't have control over anythig, actually, an esper could still use his powers even without AIM, their powers are derived from their personal realities, and AIM is a consequence of it.
 
Malox1696 said:
No their power would exceed the simple limit of their ability, that's why only few cab actually reach lvl 6 while still being themself as the ability would transform and so themself Accel is pretty close to pure control with vector control and so is kekinay with dm, that why they are the only ones that can theorically reach it while not losing their mind
Click to expand...
Only Accelerator has the potential to reach it but I get your point, they do already have full control over their respective powers. But then what can a level 6 Accelerator or Kakine do then?
 
Hopefully we will get more information in part 3. I don't think the whole reaching level 6 is done and I think it could possibly be a huge part of Accelerator's story along with running the City in part 3.
 
i don't think it will be explored in part 3, i mean aleister already ditched it by ot 13 as he said he wanted something beyond lvl 6 and in theory u could create one by fusing accel,misaka network and kazakiri again as speculated in ot 13

lvl 6 would not be much different form MGs but with more limitations
 
Malox

You do know that just because Aleister ditched it himself doesn't mean that we won't see it. And who said a level 6 would have limitations? Show me where this was said. Oh yeah I forget you can't because this is simply in your mind.
 
well, urs too ? i mean did we ever see lvl 6 ? it's all just a theory but we do know it has limitations as aleister ditched it for the IB plan

"Too early, hm? How long do you plan on using Accelerator and Last Order?"
"Who knows. I am more worried about whether they will last to the end. The numerical settings for the AIM diffusion fields were just finished being inputted into the vector control device, but the level of completion in the other is a bit lacking. I could also make a trinity out of Accelerator, Last Order, and Fuse Kazakiri, but that would not be enough. I must go beyond that."
"Beyond…Level 6?"
"If I do not, going out of the way to call Imagine Breaker in from outside would have been meaningless."
 
Uh, not really? IB was always part of Aleister's Plan since day one. It's not like he switched to it mid-way through the series. Also, I'm fairly sure the "beyond Level 6" thing is referring to Aiwass. It's not that hard to make the connection. What I'm mostly curious about is how strong SYSTEM is compared to the Secret Chiefs.
 
Aleister's plans have multiple steps that run congruently.

He wants what lies beyond Level 6, but the idea that he doesn't want a Level 6 is laughable if you think the man who has billions of plans for a single goal wouldn't settle for what he's given.
 
i mean that lvl 6 would not have given him the ability to do what he wanted , erase magic, so it has limitations
 
Malox1696 said:
well, urs too ? i mean did we ever see lvl 6 ? it's all just a theory but we do know it has limitations as aleister ditched it for the IB plan
"Too early, hm? How long do you plan on using Accelerator and Last Order?"
"Who knows. I am more worried about whether they will last to the end. The numerical settings for the AIM diffusion fields were just finished being inputted into the vector control device, but the level of completion in the other is a bit lacking. I could also make a trinity out of Accelerator, Last Order, and Fuse Kazakiri, but that would not be enough. I must go beyond that."
"Beyond…Level 6?"
"If I do not, going out of the way to call Imagine Breaker in from outside would have been meaningless."
Click to expand...
Point out in this wall text where it says that Level 6 has limitations compared to Magic gods? Highlight it for me because I can't see it being stated anywhere.

All this does is say that Aleister wanted to go beyond level 6 which I never argued against anyway only your ridicious notion that Level 6 has limitations compared to Magic Gods.

Also Aleister wanting to go beyond Level 6 doesn't mean he didn't want to create a Level 6 either, if he wanted to go beyond he would have to have created a level 6 and go even beyond it. And I think going beyond probably refers to a Level 6 who is beyond aeons themselves.
 
Accelerate420 said:
Given how Accel can erase magic in certain conditions right now, getting him to a Level 6 could make it possible.
Level 7 will be 1-A though.
Click to expand...
but accel is already beyond lvl 6 main frame as he is mixed with magic now

Scrlk666777 said:
Point out in this wall text where it says that Level 6 has limitations compared to Magic gods? Highlight it for me because I can't see it being stated anywhere.

All this does is say that Aleister wanted to go beyond level 6 which I never argued against anyway only your ridicious notion that Level 6 has limitations compared to Magic Gods.

Also Aleister wanting to go beyond Level 6 doesn't mean he didn't want to create a Level 6 either, if he wanted to go beyond he would have to have created a level 6 and go even beyond it. And I think going beyond probably refers to a Level 6 who is beyond aeons themselves.
Click to expand...
cause it can't erase magic phases ?

while magic gods are cable of deleting the whole science side , while a lvl 6 is relegated to modifying the existing layer of reality, magic gods can simply create an infinite amount

"And I think going beyond probably refers to a Level 6 who is beyond aeons themselves." are u for real ? "team A is beyond trash, that means it's top tier as it's after trash" great logic man

we know full well what he meant by that, lvl 6 alone is not enough to remove the magic side
 
He's...not beyond Level 6 Main Frame though? He's still an Esper and SYSTEM is about gaining the knowledge of God. We are not sure whether he's a Level 6 yet or reached it temporarily, but I have no idea why you'd think having Magic mixed means you're out of Level 6 area?

The entire Level 6 experiement had Aleister's Magic in it the entire time. Amata said he noticed irregular laws that resembled the occult in the Sisters experiment. Taking a step into Magic was likely exactly what's needed to reach Level 6 and beyond. What are you saying?
 
@Malox

We do not know if Accelerator is a level 6 or not and mixing magic isn't what makes a level 6. A level 6 is pretty much someone who understands the universe on a godlike scale and has pretty much unlimited calulation power.

A level 6 is equalivant to a Magic God, they both have limitations, maybe in different ways but they are pretty much equal. The only difference between the two is that we have seen what a Magic God can do but we have yet to see what a level 6 can do.

But there are also things that go or can go beyond that of a level 6 and that of a Magic God, as has been pointed out a few times.
 
Accelerate420 said:
He's...not beyond Level 6 Main Frame though? He's still an Esper and SYSTEM is about gaining the knowledge of God. We are not sure whether he's a Level 6 yet or reached it temporarily, but I have no idea why you'd think having Magic mixed means you're out of Level 6 area?
The entire Level 6 experiement had Aleister's Magic in it the entire time. Amata said he noticed irregular laws that resembled the occult in the Sisters experiment. Taking a step into Magic was likely exactly what's needed to reach Level 6 and beyond. What are you saying?
Click to expand...
the lvl 6 main frame is pure esper, same as mg is pure magic, accel now is mixed he could become something beyond lvl 6 and mg as he even surpassed aleister expectation

and not it had no magic in the lvl 6 experiment it self, a lvl 6 would be pure esper power, aleister would then use magic to direct it, not augment the lvl 6

taking a step in magic is not necessary for lvl 6 as showed by the misaka shift experiment
 
I do think Accelerator will most likely go beyond a level 6 but I think we need to actually see a level 6 beforehand because we just don't know what one is.

Because we can't grasp what going beyond a level 6 means if we don't actually know what a level 6 because right now we have nothing to indicate what reaching that level means nevermind going beyond it. We have only ever got snippets of what it could mean, like the mention of being able to understand God's world or having God like calculation power. The other possibility is someone who reaches level realizes their true will and might not even need calucuation anymore but that might go beyond a level 6.

I also wonder why it stops at Level 6 because just looking at the level 5's they seem to operate at three different levels, High, Middle and Low.

Accelerator being at the High tier.

Kakine being at the Middle tier.

And Mikoto, Misaka and Mugino being at the low tier.

Gunha is Gunha and the #6 is an unknown so I won't include them, also I think Gunha's power level might actually be one of those inconsistent types where it can flucuate between High to low.

Either way I do think level 6 will be a big part of part 3 and Accelerator's storyline.
 
The Accelerator anime also gave the full names of Scavenger's members, so we can just update all their page names. I think Scavenger also got their esper ability names.
 
Tbh I kinda hoped that we would never learn the name of the Girl in the dress.

Simply because "Girl in the dress" is so wonderfully unspecific.
 
it looks very low quality and the blue outline sucks. the one i remember being on the profile which was a actual render looked much better and way more badass. much more fitting.
 
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