Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 5

[Scrlk666777]

@Schnee

Why would Accel not underestimating his opponents means he gets destroyed by Aleister? That doesn't make any sense.

Does not underestimating opponents make you weaker or something?

 

[Omimi]

is Othinus Gungnir High 1-C

 

[Zensum]

is Othinus Gungnir High 1-C

Yes

 

[Schnee_One]

@Schnee

Why would Accel not underestimating his opponents means he gets destroyed by Aleister? That doesn't make any sense.

Does not underestimating opponents make you weaker or something?

....You DO realize that if you believe Aleister is as strong as you believe he is he amps himself to 10x that due to Blasting Rod right?

It's on the dudes page.

Yes, Accelerator not underestimating Aleister makes Aleister vastly stronger.

 

[Omimi]

then shouldnt we upgrads IB to High 1-C

DT said Gungnir < Imagine Breaker < Othinus Reality Warping

 

[Zensum]

Scroll further down on that thread

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Schnee

Why would Accel not underestimating his opponents means he gets destroyed by Aleister? That doesn't make any sense.

Does not underestimating opponents make you weaker or something?

....You DO realize that if you believe Aleister is as strong as you believe he is he amps himself to 10x that due to Blasting Rod right?
It's on the dudes page.

Yes, Accelerator not underestimating Aleister makes Aleister vastly stronger.

Not underestimating someone is not the same as believing and/or thinking someone is powerful though. The two can go hand in hand but they do differ from each other.

 

[Accelerate420]

BR's most dangerous gimmick is even when being told the secret behind it, the char is likely to go "How strong are you right now!?" And then that'll buff, and buff, and buff, etc. That being said, Aleister really doesn't have much aside from that over Accel but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some sort of back-door or something on Accelerator in general. Not to mention even though Accel has beyond aeon powers, Crowley is still Crowley and I'd assume he could out-skill him. Aleister vs Accel is a bad match-up in general because you're pitting a guy who is still learning magic against a MG candidate how knows the ins and outs of every Level 5's ability in the first place.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah it really is a bad match up. Aleister would win.

Unless Aleister's failure kicks in and he accidently slips, bangs his head and gets knocked unconscious lol. I am joking of course.

 

[Omimi]

Scroll further down on that thread

just now i read your reply to dt comment

both u and dt said/agree that Imagine Breaker can negate Gugnir

 

[Schnee_One]

@Scrlk

Underestimating someone means they're not as powerful as you

Not doing so means you think they're very dangerous

Not underestimating means Aleister gets stronger.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Scrlk
Underestimating someone means they're not as powerful as you

Not doing so means you think they're very dangerous

Not underestimating means Aleister gets stronger.

If that is truly the case why has Accel been shown to also not underestimated those who were weaker than him? Hola hoop in OT 19 was an example of this. Umidori in NT 1 was another. Accel knew that they were weaker than him but still chose to not underestimate them.

Underestimating someone or not just means that you don't take them lightly despite their current power position.

 

[Zensum]

just now i read your reply to dt comment

both u and dt said/agree that Imagine Breaker can negate Gugnir

I agree both Imagine Breaker and World Rejector should be H1-C

 

[Schnee_One]

@Scrlk

Because he doesn't want to take what can be a serious threat to civilians around him and risk unnesscary death.

Just because people are weaker doesn't mean you can act like a moron and automatically assume they aren't threats.

"Underestimating someone or not just means you don't take them lightly despite their current power position"

Which is exactly what Accelerator doesn't do.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Scrlk
Just because people are weaker doesn't mean you can act like a moron and automatically assume they aren't threats.

That's basically the defination of not underestimating somebody.

 

[Schnee_One]

Hence why Accelerator gets destroyed by Aleister

 

[Scrlk666777]

What?

No Accel gets destroyed if he believes and thinks Aleister is powerful, which he most likely does. Him not underestimating Aleister has nothing to do with it. As you just said yourself you can know someone is weaker but not act like a moran and underestimate them. I'm paraphrasing.

 

[SchroKatze]

Accel doesn't underestimate Aleister, seeing him as powerful and etc, which actually boosts Aleister to astronomically high levels of power

 

[Schnee_One]

Not underestimating your opponent is the literal definition of assuming their powerful

That's like....Borderline common sense

 

[Malox1696]

WR works by teleporting, it's just teleportaion so dura negation, it works on everything


edit: accel still gets rekt by all vectorless attack btw so any curse

 

[Scrlk666777]

Not underestimating your opponent is the literal definition of assuming their powerful
That's like....Borderline common sense

No that is not the literal definition of not underestimating someone at all.

 

[Schnee_One]

How the hell can you think that someone is not powerful yet not underestimate them?

 

[Scrlk666777]

edit: accel still gets rekt by all vectorless attack btw so any curse

I didn't know Accel was shown to get rekt by a vectorless attack. When did this happen? Or is it your own assumption?

 

[Schnee_One]

His entire power is to manipulate vectors

No vectors? No control

 

[Scrlk666777]

How the hell can you think that someone is not powerful yet not underestimate them?

I'm not saying you don't. I was talking about the defination of not underestimating someone. You said the defination of not underestimating someone means that you think they are powerful which is untrue because you can not underestimate someone and also think they are generally weak but might have a trick or two up there sleeves.

Now thinking someone is powerful and not underestimating them is more of a by product of thinking they are powerful. It goes hand in hand as I said earlier. They can go hand in hand but the defination of not underestiming someone doesn't rely on actually thinking they are powerful.

Aleister defeats Accel even without the 10X boost because he has a lot in his tool box and is just all around more knowledable so it's really useless having this debate about what underestimating someone or not means.

 

[Scrlk666777]

His entire power is to manipulate vectors
No vectors? No control

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

 

[Malox1696]

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

yes but curse would still rekt him (obvs it depends on how the curse works)

 

[Scrlk666777]

I regret even mentioning Aleister's name now. I will never say again that Accel surpassed Aleister briefly by crossing the abyss again. I promise. I won't say Accel has surpassed anyone.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

yes but curse would still rekt him (obvs it depends on how the curse works)

You said any and all curses would rekt him. So according to you even a harmless curse would rekt him, a curse that probably couldnt' even harm a fly could rekt him. None of this has been proven.

 

[Accelerate420]

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

yes but curse would still rekt him (obvs it depends on how the curse works)

Honestly I have doubts that curses (at least index curses) work on Accel since in NT17, they're stated to be flying around the world, meaning they're directional.

 

[Malox1696]

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

yes but curse would still rekt him (obvs it depends on how the curse works)

Honestly I have doubts that curses (at least index curses) work on Accel since in NT17, they're stated to be flying around the world, meaning they're directional.

depends on how they work as i said, if it's infection magic it should work as it function similar to quantum entanglement

 

[Scrlk666777]

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

yes but curse would still rekt him (obvs it depends on how the curse works)

Honestly I have doubts that curses (at least index curses) work on Accel since in NT17, they're stated to be flying around the world, meaning they're directional.

I remember something about curses having direction but couldn't quite remember where I heard it. So there's a chance that curses, at least in Raildex, won't work. If I remember correctly Aleister himself said something about curses having direction.

 

[Accelerate420]

I mean him getting rekt. That has never happned before by a mere curse and no he was never hit by a curse in NT 3.

yes but curse would still rekt him (obvs it depends on how the curse works)

Honestly I have doubts that curses (at least index curses) work on Accel since in NT17, they're stated to be flying around the world, meaning they're directional.

depends on how they work as i said, if it's infection magic it should work as it function similar to quantum entanglement

I don't think using quantum mechanics on Accel is a good idea to begin with.

Also it was against Mikoto where he used it and described curses as having directions.

 

[Omimi]

i still dont understand what vectors is lol

 

[Scrlk666777]

Something that has magnitude and direction. So things like velocity and force are vectors like quanities.

 

[Malox1696]

I don't think using quantum mechanics on Accel is a good idea to begin with.

Also it was against Mikoto where he used it and described curses as having directions.

I said work like quantum entanglement, as it ignores vector and affects something (for example measuring 1 of 2 quantum entangled particles changes the other) He even mentions in nt 3 that if it's something like vodoo doll that ignore vector he can't do shit, that's why he avoids celendrion

 

[Scrlk666777]

Actually he just theorizes about it and he doesn't want to test the theory out which is why he avoids Celendrion. He doesn't outright say that it would work only that it's possible.

 

[Malox1696]

Yes but infection magic ignore vectors as it use the concept of law of contagion/quantum entanglement

 

[Accelerate420]

Yes but infection magic ignore vectors as it use the concept of law of contagion/quantum entanglement

what's to stop him from breaking an entanglement if he recognizes it? He already messed with a conceptual contract. It's not hard to imagine he could free himself from an entanglement if he understood it.

 

[Malox1696]

If he messes with the energy directly, sure But he can't just cut off the connection cause it's not about vector