Tierings for The Black Beast, Nine & Jubei

[Zeldasmash]

Let's try and go one by one:

The Black Beast

-Attack Potency: This guy is easily Country Level to Planet level, more then likely the latter.

-Speed: It managed to outsmart the Take Mikazuchi and catch it off guard, so basically MHS+ with SOL reaction speeds.

-Durability: Country level Planet level. It took all the Six Heroes to defeat the damn thing.

So basically, 5-C to 5-B.


Nine

-Attack Potency: Country Level. Can trade blows with Hakumen and Terumi quite easily.

-Speed: Likely MHS+ with SOL/FTL reaction speeds. Keeps up with Hakumen and Valkenhayn easily and can use teleportation for more mobility.

-Durability: Country Level. Can take blows from Hakumen and look completely unfazed after their fights.

I say at least 6-B, possibly higher. Nine can also control all the worlds in the Embryo she creates so i'm not sure if that means another key category for Nine.


I'll work on Jubei later.

What do you guys think?

 

[Promestein]

Pretty sure they all scale them to the 5-C to Low 5-B, possibly 5-B thing.

 

[Drellix]

Shouldn't Terumi without the Dark Susano'o Unit be on par with these guys speed wise? Just a side note

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I think what Prom said is true here. Though i'm unsure of Jubei, The Black Beast is supposed to definitely scale from that calc from Kokonae's feat. Nine i recall is the same, so those two are "At least 5-C to Low 5-B, possibly 5-B" iirc.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Kokonoe inherited her magical ability from Nine, meaning that Nine is at least as powerful as her magically. She directly scales to Kokonoe's feat.

The Black Beast does for much the same reason: only Hakumen has ever beaten one in direct combat (unless you count Kokonoe beating the second Black Beast, which I can't see being stronger than it).

 

[Zeldasmash]

If Nine is 5-C to 5-B, doesn't that mean Base Terumi and Jubei should be 5-C to 5-B as well? I'm pretty sure Terumi and Nine are on extremely even levels if not Terumi being slightly stronger in base form.

If Base Terumi gets scaled to that, doesn't that mean Rachel should go there as well, considering Terumi during Calamity Trigger said that she was the only one who could reliably take him on?

 

[Zeldasmash]

Kokonoe in my opinion should be scaled/tiered in 3 different categories: How she is physically, how she is with gadgets (or prep) and how she is with magic.

 

[Drellix]

I agree with the proposed tiering and upgrade for base Terumi based on being on par if not stronger than some of these characters.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I'm not really sure on Jubei. What has he done that would qualify? Same with Terumi, what has he actually done that would put him on those levels? It seems weird that Terumi would consistently be matched by people like 20% Hakumen if he were roughly as strong as the Black Beast itself in his base form.

 

[Brunout]

jubei only has statements

Relius said that in normal conditions, he is the strongest being on earth

Hakumen when facing Kokonoe says "show me the power... Of the strongest and the mightiest"

If we count gag reels, when Jubei catches Terumi in Hazama's gag, he just accepted the fact that Jubei was going to kill him and doesn't even tried to put up a fight. Terumi even said that Jubei's look was enough to send shivers down his spine

 

[Zeldasmash]

If Nine is scaled to Kokonoe (5-C to 5-B), then Base Terumi should be scaled to the same tier. Terumi and Nine are at damn near even levels, with Terumi likely being stronger. Jubei would also scale to this.

As for the Black Beast, i think "at least 5-B" would be a good tiering placement.

 

[ThePerpetual]

The other Black Beast was only defeated by Kokonoe's magic, sure, but we can't just assume that The Black Beast is that much stronger. The entire reasons the tierings are as they are right now is because of the uncertainty of the planetary destruction being in a literal sense. Hence, "possibly" Planet level.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

The real question is what are we basing this on? Current or Dark War? It's noted several times that both Jubei and Nine are currently significantly weaker than what they were before. Namely in Central Fiction. Hakumen claims in the past Jubei would have cut down an enemy like Nu, and at that point he would just get in the way.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Jubei and Terumi being 5-C/5-B would be during the Dark War. I also think Terumi should also get "higher when near a cauldron" because his power does noticeably increase when next to one (or in Central Fiction's case, inside one).

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Do we take into account requiem in Central Fiction here? I'm not sure if we'd count that as a seperate entity all together since Nine was the one using it herself.

 

[Zeldasmash]

The Requiem is tricky. Suppossedly it's meant to replace the Master Unit once it's annihilated (which never happens). So I guess it would be around the Master Unit in power. If Nine had that as a key, she'd be Low 2-C. Suppossedly if it would blow up, the entire world would be destroyed in the resulting explosion. However, I'm not sure if just the world would be destroyed by an explosion of a being as strong as the Master Unit so that's up in the air.

Me personally, I think it'd be better as it's own page, but I'm also fine with it being a key in Nine's page.

 

[Shadowedge27]

Well for the Black Beast, it depends on which one Ragna alone or him with Nu. The one in the Dark War was a beast with body and heart. Its believe that the Black Beast without a heart (Ragna only) is weaker than the one with a heart (Nu). This is believed further by the fact at Ragna's CS bad ending Hakumen stated that "A beast with no heart is no threat of mine" or something like that. The one at the dark war had its heart destroyed by Ragna that went back in time in CP (which is unbeliveable since the heart took the form of Nu meaning he beat her with his bare hands). Also the fact it took only six heroes to beat it is a common misconception. It was actually The Six Heroes leading all of humanity against it. The Beast fought the entire planet, not only the six heroes.

 

[Shadowedge27]

The one in the dark war also overwhelmed Hakumen in a few moments when the guy tried to solo it so theres that too.

 

[Zeldasmash]

From what we know, any Black Beast is at least Planet level. The Black Beast the Six Heroes fought being Multi-Planet level isn't that far-fetched, though. Others would be scaled to this.

Ragna being at least Low 2-C due to Central Fiction's ending I think is legit. Being able to create a universe where the Master Unit and Takamagahara can't interfere is quite impressive.

The Requiem should have it's own page though considering that thing is basically a mind of it's own.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Bump.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Oh, more onto this. I've been thinking about some things. Should Noel get immortality? She absorbed Izanami into herself so that leads me to believe that she too gained the ability. By that logic, Susano'o is immortal as well since he had assimilated Noel into the Susano'o unit.

Adding onto that, Terumi also absorbed Hihirokane too.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Noel was already immortal before she absorbed Izanami (Hakumen tried to kill her in his Arcade mode and the sword just phased through her). Susano'o absorbing Noel makes his Immunity to Phenomena Intervention stronger then Hakumen's due to basically absorbing a god (however I don't know if this can grant him Noel's ability to do her scale of reality warping. If so, Susano'o is Low 2-C).

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Noel was already immortal before she absorbed Izanami (Hakumen tried to kill her in his Arcade mode and the sword just phased through her). Susano'o absorbing Noel makes his Immunity to Phenomena Intervention stronger then Hakumen's due to basically absorbing a god (however I don't know if this can grant him Noel's ability to do her scale of reality warping. If so, Susano'o is Low 2-C).

I was going to bring that up, but I didn't know the specifics. Terumi is a god already, but absorbing Noel would mean he gained that from her right? He basically made her a part of himself, and that's part of the reason they had to drag him from the Unit.

 

[Brunout]

I think that Susano'o with Noel absorbed has her reality power as well. He said that he was going to "re-write" some parts of history, like the dark war.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Susano'o absorbing Noel got him to be completely immune to Phenomena Intervention from Takamgahara and the Master Unit. Susano's plan was to go from timeline to timeline to cause death destruction on every single one of those timeline's to simply spite Amaterasu for binding him to his will.

The going through different timeline's thing can be one of three things: 1) The Susano'o Unit's ability to cut through time. 2) The Boundary (this one can change things when it comes to speed quite drastically) or 3) Noel's Omnipresence, though this one is unlikely.

 

[Brunout]

I think that infinite speed should be added to his profile... I mean, the boundary is his "home", where he protected Amaterasu togheter with Tsukuyomi. He should be able to move freely inside it.

 

[Zeldasmash]

I was trying to prove that most of the BlazBlue cast can have Infinite speeds due to Act 3 taking place mostly in the Boundary (Terumi's Act 3 has him going to the Boundary to get the Hihiirokane from Calivs' tombstone to be able to kill Hakumen to get the Susano'o Unit and he fights Nine, Jin, Kokonoe and Rachel to get there).

 

[Brunout]

Terumi, Ragna, Noel, Jin, Rachel (?), Nine, Izanami, Azrael (?), Amane, Trinity... Maybe Tsubaki as well?

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

I dunno, I think it seems farfetched for that immortality not to carry over, assuming he absorbed her that would mean that her abilities carry over too. Ragna's only chance at winning was pulling Terumi out. (Noel was absorbed into the Susano'o Unit, not actually himself)

 

[Zeldasmash]

If all of her abilities carried to Susano'o, why would he need to surpass the Black Beast in power when he, by himself, already is? With Noel's powers and hax, he makes the Black Beast look like a weakling in comparison.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

If all of her abilities carried to Susano'o, why would he need to surpass the Black Beast in power when he, by himself, already is? With Noel's powers and hax, he makes the Black Beast look like a weakling in comparison.

Why would he need to surpass the Black Beast if he had the true azure? He'd surpass both Amaterasu and Noel, I don't think he meant it in that way. I was referring to his immunity to damage. Susano'o wasn't getting hurt by anything they through out, and the only thing that worked was dragging him out of the suit that Noel was in, in the first place.

 

[Brunout]

I actually think that the black beast (the original one, from ancient times) is stronger than Susano'o... I mean, the Black beast can phisically harm the master unit, something that Susano'o is incapable of doing.

Remember that, takemikazuchi was needed in order to harm Amaterasu, izanami couldn't do by herself. Not even Tsukuyomi could protect amaterasu from Takemikazuchi forever. And Tsukuyomi is said to be able to protect time itself

 

[Zeldasmash]

Wait....the Black Beast could damage Amaterasu? I may have forgotten about this but where was this shown? If the Black Beast could damage Amaterasu, the Black Beast is more then just Planet level.

 

[Brunout]

In chronophantasma, izanami goal was to use takemikazuchi (which is a black beast) to destroy the Master Unit.

Rachel needed to use Tsukuyomi to protect Amaterasu from Takemikazuchi, and even so she said that tsukuyomi was eventually going to fall.

 

[Brunout]

Also, the requiem itself is powered by the black beast, like all nox nyctores.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Adding to the part about Susano'o being immortal, that's part of the whole observing thing. It's the same reason that Rachel Alucard would never die no matter what you do to her, as with Noel. That's not to mention Terumi more than likely planned on ditching the Susano'o unit since he hates it upon becoming the god of the world, so he wouldn't have Noel's powers by then.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Yikes...........so...how would the Black Beast be classified then?

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Yikes...........so...how would the Black Beast be classified then?

The Black Beast is immune to the Master Units phenomena intervention, and that's what it mainly uses to defend itself, because of that it can harm Amaterasu. Same can be said about Mu, she's the god slaying sword due to her complete immunity to phenomena intervention.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Since they can harm (Black Beast) or kill (Mu-12) Amaterasu, do they get a significant upgrade due to this?

 

[Brunout]

Also, Takemikazushi body was used to make the embryo, which aborbed the entire "outside world" (the timeline) into itself...

A black beast is what power-up the requiem...

And Terumi said that the black beast destroyed countless "worlds without possibilities"...

Multi-planetary? At least?