tier upgrade Light novel tensura

[JV_DLS]

honestly it would be much better and easier to upgrade to 3-A or even L2-C with Vol 17 as the context for this is destroying weak worlds not interfering with the main world of Slime

 

[Starfeldway]

3-A argument was clarified ages ago
we need others to say their minds on high 3-A

 

[Starfeldway]

honestly it would be much better and easier to upgrade to 3-A or even L2-C with Vol 17 as the context for this is destroying weak worlds not interfering with the main world of Slime

that's why am advising everyone to avoid further arguments above volume 15

 

[Random0987]

Damn it's already been 3 pages and still going on

 

[Shiraito983]

As for 5-B upgrades. I'll just say that Abyss Annihilation is the only attack Carrera has that is 5-B. So if characters don't scale to Abyss Annihilation then they shouldn't be planetary because Carrera herself doesn't scale to that attack.

5B for Diablo, ultima and gadra via nihilistic magic on Ap

 

[Starfeldway]

5B for Diablo, ultima and gadra via nihilistic magic on Ap

it was literally said all primordial demons can use nihilistic magic

 

[Starfeldway]

as for @Community_Gamer I don't accept your idea on tier 5-B disagreement and limited to only carrerra abyss annihilation
this isn't a necessary skill that is fated to destroy planets it needs energy output as well
so all those who scale to carrera gets this not because abyss annihilation is some kind of special skill that exist to destroy the world
people like diablo who have more energy out put than her + beat testorrosa who is comparable with carrera gets this 100%

 

[Community_Gamer]

Oh forgot about the Infinite Prison/Unlimited Imprisonment.

Regardless of translation, the consistency is that they are Imaginary spaces not physical ones. I'd liken then to be similar to Stomach which is also realm of thought and imagination. Point being they have no discernable size and I believe there would also be consistency issues scaling V1 Veldora to universal.

After all Veldora's aura couldn't even be properly contained by the barrier. He could even still use his Unique skill and telepathy.

Just some of my thoughts.

 

[Community_Gamer]

that's nice and all but what about the high 3-A upgrade
ciel is high 3-A
-"Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.
Um, why not?
Even three minutes and change were something to be grateful for, but Velgrynd’s still a major threat. I can’t just ignore it that whole time…"

Everyone who disagreed straight up ignored this or brought up Time limit (which is nowhere to be found ) .Ciel predicted that Velgrynd can destroy the prison within 200 seconds

-How dare you ...... take my sweet little brother Veldra!"
　Vergrind roared in anger.
　Two hundred seconds had already passed, and the "insulated prison" shattered.
　The "scorching dragon" has now abandoned reason, and without regard for his own self-preservation, he unleashes his hostility towards Rimuru...


This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.
The blinding light of this Insulated imprisonment

then let me explain
we all knowledgeably know that unlimited imprisonment is an infinite eternal space that seals its target with no way to escape

as you can see ciel used spatial insulation+ unlimited imprisonment which made her calculate all of velgrynd and determine or predict when velgrynd will shatter all of it- its not through velgrynd analysis that'll be head canon arguments

as what we provided ciel could only hold it out for 200 seconds against the likes of velgrynd and you know that unlimited imprisonment have an infinite capacity also infinite time
we can take examples from volume 11 chloe and hinata soul that were in there
for eons cuz we don't know how old they are because of time leap- you can argue they entered there
veldora was sealed there for 300 years

now we've gotten that out of the way
- consistencies
please avoid using further arguments against this as yenpress havent really translated volume 17 to know if the weak worlds are planets or actual universes when they do we shall update the thread and consider her escape different
but based on raws and yenpress currently velgrynd just made a roar and the space shattered

- if you don't accept this then know that ciel controlled that space like its hers
reading the context above says
"humidity,gravity and all things within this airspace>isolated imprisonment< all are in the palm of Ciel’s hands"

Uhh, I kinda of unintentionally addressed this with my other comment. Hopefully.

also about the planet stuff
-we shouldn't go that far yet,later on with more volumes and when yenpress translates it we would understand it deeper as shown its kinda like no one can destroy it because it was built by the power of veldanava+ holy tree to maintain magicule + it heals itself over time even when destroyed

Ok.

 

[Starfeldway]

Uhh, I kinda of unintentionally addressed this with my other comment. Hopefully.

Ok.

I fail to see how that have anything with high 3-A velgrynd
also high 3-A ciel
veldora being universal is questionable but this isn't about him
insulated imprisonment is more powerful than unlimited imprisonment
so I might as well put you as neutral

 

[simply]

I fail to see how that have anything with high 3-A velgrynd
also high 3-A ciel
veldora being universal is questionable but this isn't about him
insulated imprisonment is more powerful than unlimited imprisonment
so I might as well put you as neutral

Insulted imprisonment is the combination of unlimited imprisonment and spatial insulation so i agree with that aswell

 

[Nihility]

I'm familiar with the arguments presented by the OP. I don't want to get into any drawn out discussion so I'll be brief.

Firstly, I don't agree with the 3-A upgrade.

I don't believe Velgrynd's feats are meant to be interpreted in such superfluous manner. I think we've all seen cases where authors use universe, dimension, world, etc interchangeably. So I don't agree that it necessarily refers to the size being relative or comparable to the observerable universe. Maybe if realms in Tensura had clearly defined sizes and it was compared to those realms THEN this argument would be more compelling.

That's not even addressing how the ability itself to create the Eight Gates or Dream Fortress could just be a creation hax.

Also these dimensions she's creating are still physical present in the reality of the material world. Rather than creating separate space-times its like shes using barriers to the spatial manipulation to create these isolated zones/areas or dimensions within the world.

For example the Eight Gates she trapped the Patrons in was all aboard and held within Rudra's flagship. It was also perceptible and interactable from the outside. Diablo broke in after Carrera weakened the dimension.

Finally I'm just going to touch on consistency.

If you scale Velgrynd and characters of that tier to universal then you have to consider some things.

Why are Planetary and Star level attacks consistently brought up in reference of notable?

Why are top tier characters like Guy, Dagruel, and Milim, thinking Ivarage is impressive for threatening to destroy stars?

Why is destroying the planet the consistency for being top tier? Why would Velgrynd even be injured by Carrera BEFORE she awakens (meaning she has no planetary statement yet) if Velgrynd is universal?

Anyways there are a lot more examples to give especially in V20. But I'll stop there.

As for 5-B upgrades. I'll just say that Abyss Annihilation is the only attack Carrera has that is 5-B. So if characters don't scale to Abyss Annihilation then they shouldn't be planetary because Carrera herself doesn't scale to that attack.

Community_Gamer seems to make sense to me.

About 5-B, kondou Tatsuya who is comparable to Carrera was able to survive abyss annihilation so what's wrong with creating 5-B chain using Kondou ?Carrera used Crest water Hundred Flower bloom to defeat him .

 

[Metalballrun]

I mostly agree with Community_Gamer.

There are multitudes of feats putting characters on 5-B, 4-C, or High 4-C that trumps any other notion of a possibility of 3-A or High 3-A, which are dubious to begin with.

Maybe one can argue for Velgrynd alone when she uses Raguel's Amplification, but even with her using Cardinal Acceleration, her supposedly strongest attack at that time, there's no indication of it being 3-A or High 3-A.
From all of the things we've seen from Velgrynd, she's not anywhere close to being Universal. Neither are many characters who scale to her, like Rimuru, Veldora, or Feldway.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences, and any 3-A or High 3-A feats are going to be extraordinary for the verse, so it's going to be pointed out once it happens. People should wait if there is any other confirmation that any character is on that level without feats that may very well involved more hax than AP.

 

[Starfeldway]

I mostly agree with Community_Gamer.

There are multitudes of feats putting characters on 5-B, 4-C, or High 4-C that trumps any other notion of a possibility of 3-A or High 3-A, which are dubious to begin with.

Maybe one can argue for Velgrynd alone when she uses Raguel's Amplification, but even with her using Cardinal Acceleration, her supposedly strongest attack at that time, there's no indication of it being 3-A or High 3-A.
From all of the things we've seen from Velgrynd, she's not anywhere close to being Universal. Neither are many characters who scale to her, like Rimuru, Veldora, or Feldway.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences, and any 3-A or High 3-A feats are going to be extraordinary for the verse, so it's going to be pointed out once it happens. People should wait if there is any other confirmation that any character is on that level without feats that may very well involved more hax than AP.

Yet again I keep saying don't relate this thread with "future" volumes

when yenpress translates volume 17 we would know if they are star -planet level

I fail to see how they can be weak planets when true dragons can destroy stars by passing through them

your arguments have no single relation to the proposed thread and the 3-A justification have already been answered in the first page the high 3-A justification isnt
all those who disagreed are
-using headcanons

• "consistency purposes"
• using MTL for raws

shattering an infinite space a super intelligent specie have full control over is worth the praise for the feat she performed

also about the volume 20 planetary misconceptions is that its extremely durable
according to guy crimson which we can call trusted is that
"this world was built with that power of veldanava so it can't shatter however it can be stained with magicules"

yeah milim holding back can destroy star(s) and yet can't destroy a planet at full power sataneal and you think its "consistency" lol.

all the previous arguments on this have been revised

weak worlds are known as material worlds with no magicules or concept of swords

so people like velgrynd who's aura or magicule can fill up an entire space time continuum and she can force her way through a dimensional barrier deserves this rank I and @Nihility have clarification on the weak worlds furigana and translation via resources and its not dumb for likes of true dragons shattering high 3-A if they can perfom low 2-C feat a finite 4D space is quantitatively superior to a infinite 3D space

all of you are not reading through any context provided
you choose to ignore the claims and create your own headcanon and say you "agree with this and disagree with that"

Read through all details and use what we provided by yenpress later volumes release by yenpress will be covered up and we shall create a downgrade thread if we see fit and I for sure know it won't be downgraded

thank you for your time

 

[Community_Gamer]

About 5-B, kondou Tatsuya who is comparable to Carrera was able to survive abyss annihilation so what's wrong with creating 5-B chain using Kondou ?Carrera used Crest water Hundred Flower bloom to defeat him .

I agree with Kondo scaling to it. I never said that characters can't scale to 5-B. I just don't think having similar energy levels to Carrera would be enough to warrant an AP upgrade.

 

[Metalballrun]

I fail to see how they can be weak planets when true dragons can destroy stars by passing through them

Show a scan of True Dragons destroying stars "by passing through them."
This kind of talk works in a discord server, but this is a Content Revision Thread. You can't make stuff up and call that an argument.

"Weak worlds" in this case refer to worlds that lack magicules. While Volume 17 goes a bit more in-depth with this, this has been a concept ever since V4 when Yuuki talked about material, spiritual and semi-material/semi-spiritual worlds.

your arguments have no single relation to the proposed thread and the 3-A justification have already been answered in the first page the high 3-A justification isnt

There is. The thread is about Velgrynd. I've mentioned a lot of instances that goes against the notion of Velgrynd having Universal AP.
It's quite simple.

"this world was built with that power of veldanava so it can't shatter however it can be stained with magicules"

The entire conversation around this quote just reiterates the weak worlds = no magicules in the first place.

yeah milim holding back can destroy star(s) and yet can't destroy a planet and you think its "consistency" lol.

What is this even supposed to mean?

weak worlds are known as material worlds with no magicules or concept of swords

Concept of swords? What are you talking about?

fill up an entire space time continuum and she can force her way through a dimensional barrier

Scans of "filling up an entire space time continuum"? Affecting one isn't an evience for 3-A.
Neither is forcing through a dimensional barrier.

you choose to ignore the claims and create your own headcanon

What headcanon are you referring to?

Read through all details and use what we provided by yenpress later volumes release by yenpress will be covered up and we shall create a downgrade thread if we see fit and I for sure know it won't be downgraded

What downgrade thread?
Why would anyone need to create a downgrade thread?
Which character is gonna be downgraded?

 

[Community_Gamer]

I fail to see how that have anything with high 3-A velgrynd
also high 3-A ciel
veldora being universal is questionable but this isn't about him
insulated imprisonment is more powerful than unlimited imprisonment
so I might as well put you as neutral

The whole point of me referencing Veldora is because he was trapped in Infinite Prison, which is the actual significance part about Insulated Imprisonment.

If you want to Insulated Imprisonment is more powerful than fine, but to what degree?

Because I just went over why Infinite Prison isn't a universal/H3-A barrier.

Was that not clear? If not I'll be more direct, can you concretely demonstrate either its size and magnitude is comparable to a universal construct? Or how imaginary dimensions relate to physical ones? Can they even be scaled or measured in the same way?

I don't need to rely on information not officially translated to poke holes in the proposition, it just happens to make it more dubious.

 

[Starfeldway]

Show a scan of True Dragons destroying stars "by passing through them."
This kind of talk works in a discord server, but this is a Content Revision Thread. You can't make stuff up and call that an argument.

"Weak worlds" in this case refer to worlds that lack magicules. While Volume 17 goes a bit more in-depth with this, this has been a concept ever since V4 when Yuuki talked about material, spiritual and semi-material/semi-spiritual worlds.

There is. The thread is about Velgrynd. I've mentioned a lot of instances that goes against the notion of Velgrynd having Universal AP.
It's quite simple.

The entire conversation around this quote just reiterates the weak worlds = no magicules in the first place.

What is this even supposed to mean?

Concept of swords? What are you talking about?

Scans of "filling up an entire space time continuum"? Affecting one isn't an evience for 3-A.
Neither is forcing through a dimensional barrier.

What headcanon are you referring to?

What downgrade thread?
Why would anyone need to create a downgrade thread?
Which character is gonna be downgraded?

honestly speaking I don't even know what to say

-First clarification is about true dragons
Well maybe I used a hyperbole but still ivarage strength in volume 16 was only comparable to a true dragon and volume 18 veldora confirmed "can shatter the very stars if he isn't careful"

-what am I talking about?,the milim part?
bro you did read volume 20 right? the stars were prevented from being destroyed due to the barrier of either milim or zelanus,yeah later on it got shattered and milim went on an uproar guy tells rimuru not to worry that this world can't be destroyed because it was built by the power of veldanava

-weak worlds by all context refers to universes without magicules
-yes concept of swords was used

レルワールドなど存在しない。だがしかし、別次元世界アナザーワールドは存在しているのである。

〝異世界人〟がいたので、その事実は把握していた。しかし、これほどまでに多様な世界があるなどと、ヴェルグリンドは想像すらしていなかった。
　全く異なる法則で営まれており、因果が巡る事もない。大いなる精神世界に内包される物質世界として、多種多様な文明が混在していた。
　剣と魔法が主流の馴染み深い世界から、魔素がほとんどなくて魔法が使えぬ世界まで。科学文明とやらが発展し、人類が機械化された珍しい世界もあった。
〝竜種〟が全力解放すれば吹き飛ぶような弱小世界もあれば、覚醒魔王に匹敵するほどの天使や悪魔が、恒常的に争いを繰り広げている荒廃した世界もあった。
　ヴェルグリンドは、そうした世界を渡り歩いた。
　ただし、それは全て自分の意思ではなく、導かれるがままに辿り着く形であった。
　文明レベルも様々で、それがどの次元で、どの時間軸なのかも、ヴェルグリンドには推し量る術すべなどない。また、平行世界が重なり合って存在する事はないので、同一時間軸に同じ存在が重複するのは

check translation as this is the raw

fine Velgrynd range is low 2-C to 2-B

alll other arguments are...eh

 

[Starfeldway]

Because I just went over why Infinite Prison isn't a universal/H3-A barrier.

you'll need evidence against this cuz there's no scan for this

Was that not clear? If not I'll be more direct, can you concretely demonstrate either its size and magnitude is comparable to a universal construct? Or how imaginary dimensions relate to physical ones? Can they even be scaled or measured in the same way?

they called imaginary space a "fictious space"
a literal meta physical space at this point I don't know what to say because now your arguments are off point I'll wait for another staff since one have already agreed

 

[Metalballrun]

Well maybe I used a hyperbole but still ivarage strength in volume 16 was only comparable to a true dragon and volume 18 veldora confirmed "can shatter the very stars if he isn't careful"

Yes, a statement. Hence why I said True Dragons and those on their level are 5-B or 4-C, or High 4-C.

-what am I talking about?,the milim part?

The point is this doesn't support your argument so why bring it up? It only reinforces 4-C ratings at least.

-weak worlds by all context refers to universes without magicules
-yes concept of swords was used

No, seems like you just completely misunderstood what was being talked about in this part of the novel by associating a weak world with the concept of swords?
"Swords and magic" is a common term referring to medieval fantasy stories. The Foundation World, the main setting of Tensura, falls under such category.
Velgrynd was talking about worlds she visited, some of them are similar to the Foundation World in that they use swords and magic, in contrast to other worlds that has no magic, or worlds that has scientific advancement enough for interstellar travel or with "mechanized" humans.

It's also in this part where True Dragons unleashing their true power can destroy weak worlds come from. That doesn't mean that True Dragons are only planet level at full power or their strongest attack. It just means they can destroy planets with little to no magic when they're not holding themselves back.
This is in comparison to the Foundation World where Veldora rampages all the time, and at most what his aura did was affect the worldwide climate. Put that Veldora in a weak world and that planet would very easily cease to exist.

 

[Mafuuu]

So what's the conclusion?

 

[Starfeldway]

Yes, a statement. Hence why I said True Dragons and those on their level are 5-B or 4-C, or High 4-C.


The point is this doesn't support your argument so why bring it up? It only reinforces 4-C ratings at least.


No, seems like you just completely misunderstood what was being talked about in this part of the novel by associating a weak world with the concept of swords?
"Swords and magic" is a common term referring to medieval fantasy stories. The Foundation World, the main setting of Tensura, falls under such category.
Velgrynd was talking about worlds she visited, some of them are similar to the Foundation World in that they use swords and magic, in contrast to other worlds that has no magic, or worlds that has scientific advancement enough for interstellar travel or with "mechanized" humans.

It's also in this part where True Dragons unleashing their true power can destroy weak worlds come from. That doesn't mean that True Dragons are only planet level at full power or their strongest attack. It just means they can destroy planets with little to no magic when they're not holding themselves back.
This is in comparison to the Foundation World where Veldora rampages all the time, and at most what his aura did was affect the worldwide climate. Put that Veldora in a weak world and that planet would very easily cease to exist.

until when translated
-also even velgrynd isn't high 3-A ciel definitely is
as in ciel literally controlled the humidity the gravity and the settings of the infinite jail,that had spatial insulation
I'll argue velgrynd high 3-A when a staff is present

 

[Starfeldway]

So what's the conclusion?

bunch of people agrees including dread and dereck
community gamer,peak,this new guy and idk
just them disagreed

 

[Everything12]

Community_Gamer seems to make sense to me.

 

[AzuRizzz]

check what raws do you know Japanese

Yes. You literally made me translate a whole paragraph the other day.

 

[simply]

Because I just went over why Infinite Prison isn't a universal/H3-A barrier.

you never showed evidence against this

 

[AzuRizzz]

Let me re-evaluate my understanding of this topic.

So basically, Velgrynd is getting scaled to H3A for breaking insulate prison.

Although the others says that it was because of the time limit and not actually velgrynd as the raws said something like "200 seconds has passed and the prison shattered"

But at the same time, there's a scans implying that the 200s wasn't the time limit for itself but for velgrynd regarding how long it will take before she breaks the prison.

And that was Ciel's calculations saying that it should hold her up for 200 seconds or more so before the prison break and insulated prison is infinite + a better version of unlimited prison that had no limit. Meaning insulated prison Limit wasn't to itself indeed but to velgrynd.

And breaking infinite is still infinite regardless of time frame as infinity minus any finite number is still infinite same goes with dividing it therefore it is applicable to be used as a scaling for Velgrynd.

Although i will stay neutral (I don't disagree anymore) for a while, i will wait for more staffs input before agreeing again.

 

[Starfeldway]

seems nice and all but you didn't go through the high 3-A justification
you agreed to him,but do you know what we are going on about?
3-A have been rejected all time ago we want to find out about high 3-A now, his only debunk is to him infinite prison isn't infinite
and if you read the op (which I think you didn't) its said to be
so him and you are both denying evidences shown everything12

 

[Starfeldway]

so I'm not counting you yet until you show reasons to disagree too as well

 

[Random0987]

so I'm not counting you yet until you show reasons to disagree too as well

No he didn't disagreed.he said he is now neutral on the topic from disagreement

 

[Everything12]

so I'm not counting you yet until you show reasons to disagree too as well

That's not how this works.

 

[simply]

so I'm not counting you yet until you show reasons to disagree too as well

yo bro disagree is diff from neutral.
u can bw neutral for no reason if u are not sure about the topic or not knowledgeable enough, but u need a reason to disagree.

 

[Starfeldway]

That's not how this works.

no I didn't mean it like that tho,sorry my bad.
but have you seen any justification on high 3-A

 

[Starfeldway]

No he didn't disagreed.he said he is now neutral on the topic from disagreement

am talking of thread moderator everything12

 

[Peak]

you never showed evidence against this

Was that not clear? If not I'll be more direct, can you concretely demonstrate either its size and magnitude is comparable to a universal construct? Or how imaginary dimensions relate to physical ones? Can they even be scaled or measured in the same way?

I don't need to rely on information not officially translated to poke holes in the proposition, it just happens to make it more dubious.

 

[Peak]

it would be nice if y'all would stop being biased and feigning ignorance, at least try to properly rebut the arguments presented, your ignorance is why I left this thread, Everything12 explicitly says it agrees with Community_gamer, so yes, his vote should be counted and Dereck should return to vote again as new arguments have been presented

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Starfeldway I prefer reading and thinking at least.

 

[simply]

Was that not clear? If not I'll be more direct, can you concretely demonstrate either its size and magnitude is comparable to a universal construct? Or how imaginary dimensions relate to physical ones? Can they even be scaled or measured in the same way?

An infinite sized universe is not the only way to get H3A, H3A for unlimited imprisonment is proposed because it has an infinite amount of finite sized spaces, and while we dont know how big they are or how they vary in size, it does not change anything as any quantity x infinite = infinite.
So saying it needs to be universe sized is incorrect, because that is only for 3A and we left the 3A arguement, and are instead arguing for H3A.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Community_Gamer I agree with your points that from basic stance, it is not high 3-A since the prison is actually made for being there for eternal, but there is evidence of the size of that said place. What is your reasoning against this?

 

[simply]

it would be nice if y'all would stop being biased and feigning ignorance, at least try to properly rebut the arguments presented, your ignorance is why I left this thread, Everything12 explicitly says it agrees with Community_gamer, so yes, his vote should be counted and Dereck should return to vote again as new arguments have been presented

We are not being ignorant?
i think you are the ones feigning ignorance, Starfeldway already stated that destroying stars being impressive is not inconsistent because

this world was built with that power of veldanava so it can't shatter however it can be stained with magicules"