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tier upgrade Light novel tensura

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Dread said:
It can be if there are any available anti-feats.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s why I said IF this can’t be refuted. @Peak has been the main one to disagree and he’s been using two main arguments.

1 was that it’s just space time manip I and others disagree as if it truly is a infinite 3d space then breaking it should be 3a regardless of weather it’s a skill or not (funny how that’s how 2a WN was got)

The second was Narrative contradictions and breaking the power chain which as I said above won’t really happen if you just assume some things that lack context and thus that isn’t significant enough to disprove what the OP claims.

If you or anyone else has any disagreements then please share them, I’ll continue to watch the thread but with what’s been presented so far I really don’t see how this wouldn’t work.
 
DeityOfSlumber said:
I agree with the OP and the arguments being presented in favor of 3A. Although this looks odd with the many statements of “Shattering Stars” that are present in the novel that in itself isn’t a direct contradiction.

Taking Vol 17 into account we know their are weaker worlds than the Cardinal one so a TD being able to destroy weak universe isn’t really an outlier.

Honestly if you take all the planetary statements in the novel and apply them to them being planets from these weak worlds then that would fix up the confusion about the powerscaling inverse.

The problem with this is it’s all assumptions, Fuse really doesn’t give much info about these things but if this can’t be refuted I don’t see why it can’t be applied.

It doesn’t necessarily mess anything up and with things in future volumes (IP, Weak Worlds, Diffrent Dimensions, End of Space-Time, Etc) I don’t think that the god tiers AP getting around those Uni ranges is anything too odd.

So put me down for agree with everything.
Click to expand...
like I presented above
the cardinal world planets>normal universes
weak worlds are known as material worlds
worlds with no magicule or concept of magic and swords
I also brought the raws to support why they are universes
let me tag you
 
Starfeldway said:
kanji:
竜種〟が全力解放すれば吹き飛ぶような弱小世界もあれば、
furigana or smt
Ryūshu〟 ga zenryoku kaihō sureba fukitobu yōna jakushō sekai mo areba,
English
Code: 
css
There are weak  worlds that would be blown away if the “Dragon” were to release with all their might,
Read through the furigana Well
it have sekai
Native speakers use this noun to refer to this universe we all live in. It's also worth mentioning here that they sometimes use it together with a prefix or suffix to make a longer noun like “ isekai
which could mean "another world"
Click to expand...
here @DeityOfSlumber
 
Starfeldway said:
you all are disagreeing with your headcanon and "later volume" misconceptions
the thing is she used her power to shatter it you saying she "analysed it" which wad never shown is a negative figurative or argument for this you shouldn't use the word "maybe" in trying to disagree with the op I understand @Peak disagreement with 3-A very clear but very unclear to high 3-A
you guys are only saying maybe she analysed it which isn't a clear way to refute something, by the context and by the raw
yes as shown by more OP ciel San predicted velgrynd can shatter it with raw power overtime and calculated when she would, I'm not
Dread said:
Mind sending it here? With the reference source as well.
Click to expand...
I was performing an Analyze and Assess process on Velgrynd’s powers, examining her Cardinal Acceleration while she was isolated in Complex Space.



This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.
The blinding light of this Insulated

“My sweet little brother… How dare you…!!”
She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roar was enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon was enraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she would unleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.


Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.
Click to expand...
 
Dread said:
Mind sending it here? With the reference source as well.
Click to expand...
here copy paste from Vol 1 otl

The hero’s Unlimited Imprisonment could hold its target captive in an infinite number of imaginary spaces for all of time. It wasn’t some weak barrier that would allow casual interference with the real world. Looking back, it should have struck me as strange that Telepathy was possible, even. It wasn’t the sort of thing that would break down over time—but given that he could have any contact with the real world, and even exchange messages, perhaps it said more about Veldora. Neither of us noticed this at the time
Click to expand...

scan that state unlimited prison has infinite space. i don.t know if this help the argument though
 
I need time to share my evaluation in this thread, I need to talk to some knowledgeable members for some information that I needed.
 
So, since the majority i agree, i think its bettter for a staff to evaluate this thread.
I have already posted this in content revision promotion thread.
 
There are still some people who disagreed. So even if majority agreed and give free FRA, this won't be passed until all knowledgeable members give their agreement on this. And I am still neutral on the topic.
 
Dread said:
There are still some people who disagreed. So even if majority agreed and give free FRA, this won't be passed until all knowledgeable members give their agreement on this. And I am still neutral on the topic.
Click to expand...
thunderian agreed
catpija also
peak disagreement is using headcanon
there's no staff here
 
Dread said:
There are still some people who disagreed. So even if majority agreed and give free FRA, this won't be passed until all knowledgeable members give their agreement on this. And I am still neutral on the topic.
Click to expand...
we only need staffs as I don't see any other valuable arguments against high 3-A only peaks disagrees there's no "major" people again since thunderian and catpija agrees if staffs get here it'll be fine
you also through all the arguments what do you think for like 292929 times I have tried to send you scans and other stuff but till now you're still waiting for knowledgeable members...like who?
well I have tag admins in content promotion thread I hope it gets picks up
 
Starfeldway said:
we only need staffs as I don't see any other valuable arguments against high 3-A only peaks disagrees there's no "major" people again since thunderian and catpija agrees if staffs get here it'll be fine
you also through all the arguments what do you think for like 292929 times I have tried to send you scans and other stuff but till now you're still waiting for knowledgeable members...like who?
well I have tag admins in content promotion thread I hope it gets picks up
Click to expand...
Because I want to know the context. Simply describing the size and say someone scales to it fully and significantly is not enough.
 
ok, I checked the RAW of the alleged statement about the roar that destroys the unlimited prison, and that statement does not exist, it is true that Velgrynd lets out a roar, but unlike what the Yen press puts it, it was not the roar that destroyed the unlimited prison but rather it was broken because 200 seconds had passed(which makes sense since Ciel makes it clear that Velgrynd wouldn't be able to get out even if he used all his strength lol)
「よくも…………私の可愛い弟を―ッ!!」

ヴェルグリンドが怒りの咆哮を上げた。

二百秒などとっくに経過しており、『断熱牢獄』が砕 け散る。
Click to expand...
Translation:"How dare you... my cute little brother!!"

Velgrind let out an angry roar.

200 seconds had already passed, and the 『Insulated Prison』 shattered.
Click to expand...
As seen, the effect of the prison being destroyed does not have the roar as a cause, because it is in another sentence, but the cause is the amount of time that has passed, therefore, the explicit statement they use is not valid, furthermore, you didn't stop to question that if Velgrynd can supposedly need all of its strength to destroy a weak universe, yet a simple roar can destroy a supposed H3A structure? Also, I've covered other points previously that make this inconsistent, so should add the RAW of that statement in the OP
 
Aha, thanks. Put me on disagreement as none scale to this. This specific statement was needed, and I knew that there is something wrong here.
 
Also, I want to add, Rimuru states that no matter what Velgrynd does, the prison will not break, but it will last only 200 seconds, that is, the prison already had a defined duration, which is what happens
So thanks to an unexpected boon, Ciel was now more dependable than ever for me. But I couldn’t forget my objective. Before Velgrynd made another move, I needed to free Veldora’s mind. So how many seconds can we hold her back, exactly?
Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Dread said:
Damn, I did not regret waiting for @Peak to post one solid anti-feat for this thread.
Click to expand...
Yen press sucks it's really weird that the most important statement is the only one that doesn't have RAW in the OP lol they only decide to use YP when it's convenient, this topic really tires me, I have made several points and none have been debunked and instead ignored to restate this single fragile statement, I will not get involved in this thread anymore, I already left my disagreement
 
I will no longer give my input any further. The thread can be closed. There is strong anti-feat and can't be ignored.
 
With the reasons above I changed my vote to Disagree unless there’s new scans showing that rimuru or someone comparable can indeed break the Infinite Prison with their strength.
 
honestly speaking this doesn't change anything I myself have replied @Dread with the following scans you've brought @Peak but it was ignored and she was waiting for you
like I clarified its a prison that was stated to go against her by weakness ciel had everything in control right from air to the very space within it
they knew it won't hold velgrynd for any longer
till now I don't see any anti feat dread is talking of
they are countless arguments the two of you are seriously ignoring
dread didn't even see the ones I showed her

I was performing an Analyze and Assess process on Velgrynd’s powers, examining her Cardinal Acceleration while she was isolated in Complex Space.
This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.
The blinding light of this Insulated

these were the scans
this means
velgrynd is so strong insulated imprisonment can't hold her captive
now since we bringing in this arguments on anti feats you all should know milim can shatter all barrier because of power of creation -star particles
it's not a skill
same for veldanava who created the infinite prison
you're trying to say in 200 seconds the Insulated Imprisonment got weak over time and dread agreed so bluntly without looking at other arguments that the Insulated Imprisonment could only hold her for that long
veldora was within unlimited imprisonment for like 300 years
and if you want to know how rimuru eating it is an anti feat then know that
rimuru gluttony/predate ignores the rules of time and space
 
Last edited:
Peak said:
Also, I want to add, Rimuru states that no matter what Velgrynd does, the prison will not break, but it will last only 200 seconds, that is, the prison already had a defined duration, which is what happens
Click to expand...
Starfeldway said:
honestly speaking this doesn't change anything I myself have replied @Dread with the following scans you've brought @Peak but it was ignored and she was waiting for you
like I clarified its a prison that was stated to go against her by weakness ciel had everything in control right from air to the very space within it
they knew it won't hold velgrynd for any longer
till now I don't see any anti feat dread is talking of
Click to expand...
Velgrnds can’t destroy the space meaning her AP doesn’t scale to it. That’s the Anti-Feat and it was destroyed cause of the time duration that it has. So you can’t use the velgrnd feat to scale to 3a.
 
Starfeldway said:
honestly speaking this doesn't change anything I myself have replied @Dread with the following scans you've brought @Peak but it was ignored and she was waiting for you
like I clarified its a prison that was stated to go against her by weakness ciel had everything in control right from air to the very space within it
they knew it won't hold velgrynd for any longer
till now I don't see any anti feat dread is talking of
they are countless arguments the two of you are seriously ignoring
dread didn't even see the ones I showed her

I was performing an Analyze and Assess process on Velgrynd’s powers, examining her Cardinal Acceleration while she was isolated in Complex Space.
This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.
The blinding light of this Insulated

these were the scans
this means
velgrynd is so strong insulated imprisonment can't hold her captive
now since we bringing in this arguments on anti feats you all should know milim can shatter all barrier because of power of creation -star particles
it's not a skill
same for veldanava who created the infinite prison
you're trying to say in 200 seconds the Insulated Imprisonment got weak over time and dread agreed so bluntly without looking at other arguments that the Insulated Imprisonment could only hold her for that long
veldora was within unlimited imprisonment for like 300 years
and if you want to know how rimuru eating it is an anti feat then know that
rimuru gluttony/predate ignores the rules of time and space
Click to expand...


I don't even know why you're asking to close thread when you guys didn't even debunk 1 thing
 
DeityOfSlumber said:
Velgrnds can’t destroy the space meaning her AP doesn’t scale to it. That’s the Anti-Feat and it was destroyed cause of the time duration that it has. So you can’t use the velgrnd feat to scale to 3a.
Click to expand...
don't you see that that's because that's how long it can hold someone like velgrynd who is a mighty true dragon
I posted scans
ciel had full control but the Insulated Imprisonment didn't have a time limit on itself but on velgrynd
it literally seals veldora for 300 years
 
Peak said:
ok, I checked the RAW of the alleged statement about the roar that destroys the unlimited prison, and that statement does not exist, it is true that Velgrynd lets out a roar, but unlike what the Yen press puts it, it was not the roar that destroyed the unlimited prison but rather it was broken because 200 seconds had passed(which makes sense since Ciel makes it clear that Velgrynd wouldn't be able to get out even if he used all his strength lol)


As seen, the effect of the prison being destroyed does not have the roar as a cause, because it is in another sentence, but the cause is the amount of time that has passed, therefore, the explicit statement they use is not valid, furthermore, you didn't stop to question that if Velgrynd can supposedly need all of its strength to destroy a weak universe, yet a simple roar can destroy a supposed H3A structure? Also, I've covered other points previously that make this inconsistent, so should add the RAW of that statement in the OP
Click to expand...
@Starfeldway
 
This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
Click to expand...
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.
Click to expand...


I would suggest changing the argument from Velgrnd destroys Infinte 3d space=3A to Rimuru has control and assist in the created of a stronger Infinite 3A space=3A since the earlier one is false. I’m neatural on the topic now since when looking at the thread again this, Rimuru has full control over the space and Ciel had a hand in the creation of a stronger version which was made to to contain Velgrnd. Everything is “in the Palm of her hand” and “Crafted it” which if I’m not wrong could be used to argue it in a better way.
 
changing my vote to disagree.

Now that i saw and read the raws, it only said that velgrynd let out a roar but the roar wasn't stated to break the space.

The raws says that 200 seconds has paased and the prison has shattered.
 
DeityOfSlumber said:
I would suggest changing the argument from Velgrnd destroys Infinte 3d space=3A to Rimuru has control and assist in the created of a stronger Infinite 3A space=3A since the earlier one is false. I’m neatural on the topic now since when looking at the thread again this, Rimuru has full control over the space and Ciel had a hand in the creation of a stronger version which was made to to contain Velgrnd. Everything is “in the Palm of her hand” and “Crafted it” which if I’m not wrong could be used to argue it in a better way.
Click to expand...
okay rather than going for velgrynd I'll go for rimuru/ciel
 
Guretodesu said:
changing my vote to disagree.

Now that i saw and read the raws, it only said that velgrynd let out a roar but the roar wasn't stated to break the space.

The raws says that 200 seconds has paased and the prison has shattered.
Click to expand...
Probably because it can't hold someone like velgrynd for more than 200 seconds
 
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