tier upgrade Light novel tensura

[Starfeldway]

it's not really different, and to say that only the infinite inside the barrier would be an outlier, seeing as Veldora's aura still managed to interfere with the outside without any problem

this just supports the fact that it is spacetime manipulation

The thing is, Velgrynd wasn't continuously trying to attack, she just decided to attack when she got enraged to see Veldora being devoured, and the narrative makes a point of emphasizing the time that has passed, that is, the barrier weakens on its own, not with Velgrynd's attacks, and even if it were, as I said, it would be more coherent and consistent if it were space-time manipulation, because we know that destroying a space-time barrier is a feat of space-time manipulation, not AP, plus I've covered several things that take away all the logic behind H3A durability, also, looking from another perspective, would a character with infinite speed need H3A to pass an infinite barrier? Because as far as I know, the speed of the attacks could reach without problems, the same for attacks that ignore spacetime which is common in Tensura, we have a lot of evidence that shows that this is manipulation of spacetime and not AP, that's why Gojo doesn't have H3A durability, I don't see why with Tensura it would be special, while the argument for H3A is flimsy and the earlier and later volumes bring only contradictions and inconsistencies, my vote doesn't change, I disagree with the OP for everything I've mentioned before

nah nah nah
look at it clearly or atleast read the op that was the time ciel calculated that velgrynd will free herself

your arguments om your disagreement is

the barrier was weak

debunk: veldora was sealed there for 300 years and the barrier never went weak In that span of time as said the barrier never gets weak over time as it doesn't affect or is part of the real world

she analysed it over time

debunk: ciel already planned when velgrynd will shatter it and what time she would I also fail to see how breaking through infinity with raw power even if analysed isn't high 3-A lmao

she used space time manipulation

debunk: ever since you've been saying "maybe" she did "maybe" she didn't it wasn't ever specifically said she first use ability A or B to get through the barrier
the entire context was "with just a roar she shattered the insulated imprisonment" which is combination of unlimited imprisonment + spatial insulation which makes the whole insulated imprisonment more broken and gives velgrynd better ap
ciel also trapped velgrynd there knowing fully well she'll break it that's why she said
"you have 200 seconds left before she is free"
insulated imprisonment getting weak over 200 seconds sounds funny
it was also when velgrynd got angry-which ciel predicted that's how she broke through
normally speaking she wasn't trying to get out of there until she thought veldora died

consistency purpose

you should refrain from using untranslated volumes for your arguments and you don't even read the raws as volume 17 supports even 2-C velgrynd but am not gonna bring that up until its translated just how you also shouldn't bring others up

 

[AzuRizzz]

This just supports the fact that it is spacetime manipulation

And affecting a space time with infinite in size is H3A - L2C, affecting it only is enough but velgrynd destroyed it so even if it's a space time hax, it was still infinite nonetheless.

Peak said: that's why Gojo doesn't have H3A durability, I don't see why with Tensura it would be special, while the argument for H3A is flimsy and the earlier and later volumes bring only contradictions and inconsistencies, my vote doesn't change, I disagree with the OP for everything I've mentioned before

Gojo is pretty clear as its not his durability himself rather just a hax that uses infinity between space.

That's why he's listed "difficult to kill due to infinity"

 

[AzuRizzz]

Plus gojo'a infinity has exceptions where special grades can bypass and completely ignore it, doesn't give them H3A or infinite speed as they just ignored it rather than forcefully going through it.

 

[AzuRizzz]

Velgrynd in the context literally was said to destroy it with a roar.

 

[Shiraito983]

i found this

The moment Velgrynd realized that Veldora had been devoured before her eyes, she felt her sanity blown away by anger.

“How dare you…devour my cute little brother!!” Velgrynd roared in anger.

Two hundred seconds had passed, and the ‘Insulation Prison’ shattered. The Scorch Dragon, now without reason and without regard for her own self-preservation, unleashed her hostility towards Rimuru.

otl which said It was over 200 seconds, and that roar was enough to break it

 

[Nihility]

this just supports the fact that it is spacetime manipulation

Which is still H3-A anyway ...

 

[Peak]

the inside is infinite not the outside

you can't prove it and even if you could, it's still space-time manipulation

nah nah nah
look at it clearly or atleast read the op that was the time ciel calculated that velgrynd will free herself

It did not refute the various points I made

And affecting a space time with infinite in size is H3A - L2C, affecting it only is enough but velgrynd destroyed it so even if it's a space time hax, it was still infinite nonetheless.

Low2-C? Why?

Either way, destroying a space-time barrier is still just space-time manipulation, the size of a space-time barrier does not interfere with this, mainly because from the looks of it, there really isn't an infinite difference between Veldora/Velgrynd and the outside, you are literally ignoring everything I presented, about Veldora's aura coming out, his own interaction with Rimuru, Velgrynd interacting and seeing Rimuru normally, if it were really infinite none of this would happen, mainly because we know that nobody but information can travel infinite distances, nothing Veldora or Velgrynd did should be able to reach the outside, this with the premise that "infinity is only on the inside of the barrier" which is a lie, at least until you show scans for it, though it's not relevant as even from the inside it doesn't seem to have it

Gojo is pretty clear as its not his durability himself rather just a hax that uses infinity between space.

?

It's literally the same thing with unlimited imprisonment, it's not durability itself but a space-time hax

Plus gojo'a infinity has exceptions where special grades can bypass and completely ignore it, doesn't give them H3A or infinite speed as they just ignored it rather than forcefully going through it.

The same can happen with unlimited imprisonment, as I mentioned earlier and you did not address

 

[Peak]

Which is still H3-A anyway ...

It doesn't seem stable, so you intend to ignore all the tremendous inconsistencies regarding the scaling chain simply because of a questionable statement?

 

[Peak]

Anyway, I'm going to sleep now, I'll reply when I have time

 

[Nihility]

It doesn't seem stable, so you intend to ignore all the tremendous inconsistencies regarding the scaling chain simply because of a questionable statement?

Well that's the only thing preventing this upgrade and that's the reason I disagreed initially.But if it can't be refuted then I am forced to agree here .

Also it does seem like she brute forced her way out of it:

"Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.
Um, why not?
Even three minutes and change were something to be grateful for, but Velgrynd’s still a major threat. I can’t just ignore it that whole time…"

And then this happened :She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roar was enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon was enraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she would unleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.

 

[Starfeldway]

It doesn't seem stable, so you intend to ignore all the tremendous inconsistencies regarding the scaling chain simply because of a questionable statement?

there are no inconsistencies
you're only saying something that never happened,happened so as to protect your argument which isn't canonical

 

[Starfeldway]

there are no inconsistencies
you're only saying something that never happened,happened so as to protect your argument which isn't canonical

He said velgrind couldn't destroy that prison as soon as they captured her .she did after 120 sec basically means it's been weakened.which is totally wrong from his side.
She could have destroyed that prison very first moment but couldn't bcs of ciel and her management

 

[Starfeldway]

might as well just call a staff

 

[Nihility]

It doesn't seem stable, so you intend to ignore all the tremendous inconsistencies regarding the scaling chain simply because of a questionable statement?

And the mere aura of a true dragon being able to blow away the weak worlds (If we consider them to be universes) would make sense if this H3-A is accepted ...................

 

[Starfeldway]

might as well just call a staff

The crux of this operation lay upon whether or not I could withstand Velgrynd’s attack. Ciel’s computation said I could, and I trusted it on that—but if she misread that, it’d be the end of me, too. Why did I trust it? Simple. I was dealing with Veldora, and I told Ciel it was in charge of Velgrynd. I knew it could do it, too—and it lived up to my expectations perfectly, even better than I had imagined. Ciel used my abilities more skillfully than I ever could to fulfill the job.

That’s my partner for you. Now I was more impressed with Ciel than ever
ciel calculated everything and created the seal based off what she knew

Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.

when velgrynd got angry her anger got through the isolated prison in 200 seconds
so th distance and time is still infinite cux infinite divided by a finite number is still infinite

I was performing an Analyze and Assess process on Velgrynd’s powers, examining her Cardinal Acceleration while she was isolated in Complex Space.

the only person performing an "analysis" was ciel

“My sweet little brother… How dare you…!!”

She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roar was enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon was enraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she would unleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.
ciel already have calculated all of velgrynd abilities and power and how much she would last within the prison

This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.

The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.

The blinding light of this Insulated
the Insulated Imprisonment was made specially to isolate velgrynd and that had a limit as shown by my above arguments

 

[Starfeldway]

And the mere aura of a true dragon being able to blow away the weak worlds (If we consider them to be universes) would make sense if this H3-A is accepted ...................

yeah that's why I tell peak to avoid using arguments from beyond volume 15

 

[Catpija]

It doesn't seem stable, so you intend to ignore all the tremendous inconsistencies regarding the scaling chain simply because of a questionable statement?

what is the scaling chain that cause this to goes inconsistent exactly?

 

[Starfeldway]

what is the scaling chain that cause this to goes inconsistent exactly?

literally nothing
if Velgrynd gets high 3-A
all those stronger or equal to true dragons gets it as well,funny shit true dragons are relatively 2-C by volume 17 @Peak is trying to say latter volumes it's only "stars" they can destroy
for me it's just a figurative speech as in "this dude so strong he can shatter the stars" and we all know what volume 20 said about the high level durability of the cardinal world I tell him to refrain from using it but he still uses it nevertheless which is unacceptable by the least cuz he didn't even bring up raws to support his arguments lol
so eh I don't agree with peak and everyone else isn't against the high 3-A op

 

[Shiraito983]

all those stronger or equal to true dragons gets it as well,funny shit true dragons are relatively 2-C by volume 17

except rimuru and veldanava. they only get L2C.
for 2C you need energy of more than 1 L2C energy which doesn't grant them 2C since it took all of their strength to destroy weak worlds. here

 

[Starfeldway]

except rimuru and veldanava. they only get L2C.
for 2C you need energy of more than 1 L2C energy which doesn't grant them 2C since it took all of their strength to destroy weak worlds. here

Read your words
"world(s)"

 

[Nihility]

Read your words
"world(s)"

A CRT had been created by User/staff Pain_to12 for revising tier-2 .Unless you can prove that multiple universes are separate spacetime continuums (Which they normally are .Don't know why pain made the CRT ) it'll only be a 3-A feat .Don't know if it was actually accepted or not .

(Though I think Volume-17 can prove that slime universes are actually separate spacetime continuums)

 

[Starfeldway]

A CRT had been created by User/staff Pain_to12 for revising tier-2 .Unless you can prove that multiple universes are separate spacetime continuums (Which they normally are .Don't know why pain made the CRT ) it'll only be a 3-A feat .Don't know if it was actually accepted or not .

(Though I think Volume-17 can prove that slime universes are actually separate spacetime continuums)

huh?
you think slime don't have different spatial temporal dimensions?
here's this

ヴェルグリンドが最初に跳んだ>>のは、どことも知れぬ異界の狭はざ間まだった。

　そこで時間に囚われず、己の内面と向き合った。そうする事で、究極能力アルティメットスキル『炎神之王クトゥグア』を、完全に自分のものとしたのである。
　究極能力アルティメットスキル『炎神之王クトゥグア』には、ルドラの〝魂〟を追跡する権能があった。厳密に言えば、一度指定した存在モノを発見するという効果である。
　ヴェルグリンドはこれによって、どれだけ離れた場所であっても、時間と空間すら超えた先であろうとも、愛するルドラの〝魂〟の欠片を発見出来るようになった。
　後は、それを目指して〝跳ぶ〟だけである。
　究極能力アルティメットスキルの中でも更に突出して強大になった権能だからこそ可能な、『時空間操作』と『次元跳躍』の合わせ技──完全なる『時空間跳躍』であった。
　ただし、目的の座標地点を割り出せないので、任意の時と場所に〝跳ぶ〟事は不可能だった。あくまでも、目的地があってこその、『時空間跳躍』なのである。
　もっとも、同一時空上であれば、この
translated:

css
The first place Velgrind jumped into was an unknown gap in another world.
There he was not bound by time and faced his inner self. By doing so, he made his ultimate ability, Ultimate Skill 『Fire God King Ctugua』 completely his own.
His ultimate ability, Ultimate Skill 『Fire God King Ctugua』, had the authority to track Rudra’s “soul”. Strictly speaking, it is the effect of discovering a specified existence.
With this, Velgrynd was able to discover the fragment of the 'soul' of his beloved Rudra, no matter how far away it was, or even beyond time and space.
All that was left was to aim for it and "jump".
It was a combination technique of "Space-Time Manipulation" and "Dimensional Jump" that was possible because it was an authority that stood out even more among the Ultimate Skills, and it was a perfect "Space-Time Jump".
However, it was impossible to ``jump'' to any time and place since the desired coordinate point could not be determined. Ultimately, it is a 'spatio-temporal leap' that exists only when there is a destination.
However, if it is on the same space-time, this

quote :
spatio-temporal leap

 

[Starfeldway]

kanji:
竜種〟が全力解放すれば吹き飛ぶような弱小世界もあれば、
furigana or smt
Ryūshu〟 ga zenryoku kaihō sureba fukitobu yōna jakushō sekai mo areba,
English

css
There are weak  worlds that would be blown away if the “Dragon” were to release with all their might,

Read through the furigana Well
it have sekai
Native speakers use this noun to refer to this universe we all live in. It's also worth mentioning here that they sometimes use it together with a prefix or suffix to make a longer noun like “ isekai
which could mean "another world"

 

[Starfeldway]

kanji:
竜種〟が全力解放すれば吹き飛ぶような弱小世界もあれば、
furigana or smt
Ryūshu〟 ga zenryoku kaihō sureba fukitobu yōna jakushō sekai mo areba,
English

css
There are weak  worlds that would be blown away if the “Dragon” were to release with all their might,

Read through the furigana Well
it have sekai
Native speakers use this noun to refer to this universe we all live in. It's also worth mentioning here that they sometimes use it together with a prefix or suffix to make a longer noun like “ isekai
which could mean "another world"

like I showed through yenpress translation too her aura could fill up an entire space time continuum
Japanese raw Said space time but oh well
velgrynd getting high 3-A isn't off point
as limited spatial temporal is bigger than infinite spatial axis

 

[Starfeldway]

like I showed through yenpress translation too her aura could fill up an entire space time continuum
Japanese raw Said space time but oh well
velgrynd getting high 3-A isn't off point
as limited spatial temporal is bigger than infinite spatial axis

sekai also means space-time

 

[Nihility]

sekai also means space-time

Calm down .I never said Slime don't have separate spacetime continuums (Read my post again ,I said we can prove it using volume-17.Which you did RN anyway ) .

The point of my post was to point out the fact that just being mentioned to destroy worlds won't give Tier -2 if Pain's CRT was accepted .

 

[Starfeldway]

Calm down .I never said Slime don't have separate spacetime continuums (Read my post again ,I said we can prove it using volume-17.Which you did RN anyway ) .

The point of my post was to point out the fact that just being mentioned to destroy worlds won't give Tier -2 if Pain's CRT was accepted .

it would be nice if you are able to go to the content promotion thread to promote this tbh even if everyone agrees we would still need admins approval

 

[AzuRizzz]

So who's going to create profiles in the first place btw, even if this gets accepted; velgrynd doesn't have a profile yet.

 

[ImmortalDread]

May I see evidences that is high 3-A?

 

[091Franky]

Agree on 5B, Neutral on High 3-A but leaning towards agreeing

 

[Starfeldway]

May I see evidences that is high 3-A?

This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace.

The blinding light of this Insulated
in the OP I provided raws that said the unlimited imprisonment is a high 3-A space and doesn't allow interference with the real world
velgrynd broke it with a roar,no analysis,no space time manipulation

“My sweet little brother… How dare you…!!”

She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roar was enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon was enraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she would unleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.
and isolated imprisonment is a isolated spatial ability that seals target away in a isolated distorted space
and ciel analysed all of velgrynd abilities and power and Said it'll only last 200 seconds against velgrynd "even if she's angry" which is what happened

I was performing an Analyze and Assess process on Velgrynd’s powers, examining her Cardinal Acceleration while she was isolated in Complex Space.

it was to seal velgrynd perfectly
with all her performances
also note the barrier can't ever grow weak over time
veldora was sealed there for 300 years
am sure we all watched the anime or you can ask other supporters if this is true
so velgrynd breaking it with just a roar therefore is high 3-A ap

 

[ImmortalDread]

Unlimited Imprisonment sounds more like a prison that can stay for eternity, rather it is implying for the size of imprisonment.

 

[AzuRizzz]

Unlimited Imprisonment sounds more like a prison that can stay for eternity, rather it is implying for the size of imprisonment.

The Japanese says "mugen" though which means infinite

And iirc, unlimited imprisonment is stated to have infinite space

 

[ImmortalDread]

May I see the source where it mentions its size? Either way, Infinite imprisonment can be interpreted as “eternal prison” rather it is implying for its size.

 

[AzuRizzz]

May I see the source where it mentions its size? Either way, Infinite imprisonment can be interpreted as “eternal prison” rather it is implying for its size.

Here

 

[Starfeldway]

May I see the source where it mentions its size? Either way, Infinite imprisonment can be interpreted as “eternal prison” rather it is implying for its size.

it's in the OP dread

 

[ImmortalDread]

Here

The link redirect me to Facebook. Sorry, but we no longer take those as reliable source.

 

[AzuRizzz]

The link redirect me to Facebook. Sorry, but we no longer take those as reliable source.

I put the scan Image in one of my posts, i am too lazy to download imgur again just to upload it there

 

[AzuRizzz]

It's the same as the one in OP anyway so doesn't matter whether you take a look at it or not.

 

[DeityOfSlumber]

I agree with the OP and the arguments being presented in favor of 3A. Although this looks odd with the many statements of “Shattering Stars” that are present in the novel that in itself isn’t a direct contradiction.

Taking Vol 17 into account we know their are weaker worlds than the Cardinal one so a TD being able to destroy weak universe isn’t really an outlier.

Honestly if you take all the planetary statements in the novel and apply them to them being planets from these weak worlds then that would fix up the confusion about the powerscaling inverse.

The problem with this is it’s all assumptions, Fuse really doesn’t give much info about these things but if this can’t be refuted I don’t see why it can’t be applied.

It doesn’t necessarily mess anything up and with things in future volumes (IP, Weak Worlds, Diffrent Dimensions, End of Space-Time, Etc) I don’t think that the god tiers AP getting around those Uni ranges is anything too odd.

So put me down for agree with everything.