tier upgrade Light novel tensura

[Peak]

again about analysis of the infinite jail
rimuru could release veldora cuz he later for uriel for himself

He was able to free because the analysis of the infinite prison ended faster after Raphael was acquired, and what you argue does not disprove anything I said, as it remains a feat of compute and not AP

if you read the scans I processed the raw and the support my high 3-A argument

I already answered this

 

[Starfeldway]

Raws for Velgrynd breaking Insulated imprisonment?

I used yenpress it's hard to really use these Japanese raw all the time

 

[Nihility]

Minute? What makes you think he compares to Damrada? In fact, Kondou himself seems to be far superior to Damrada, Hinata is in no way comparable to Kondou at this point, maybe volume 19, but now she's not even a saint, luminas scale is uncertain for now so idk

There's an statement that says he is stronger than Damrada .

"In the imperial army, Granit’s brute strength was second only to Velgrynd’s. He was stronger than Damrada, even, and likely an even match with Kondo. That remained just as true now. But there was a good reason why he was entrusted with guarding Ludora. He just never had a chance to get fully serious in battle."-Volume 15,Chapter 5

I proposed 5-B damrada because Ultima=Damrada?

Well anyway I am not sure whether or not we should scale Imperial generals(Damrada and Minits )to 5-B because they pretty much melted once the patrons gained Ultimate skills ...

 

[Nihility]

Hinata is in no way comparable to Kondou at this point, maybe volume 19,

It's Damrada not kondou .And if Damrada scales to ultima then he can get 5-B, no?

"Ultima chuckled as she observed Damrada. She could feel his power—an incredible amount for a human being, and exceptional even as a Saint. If she hadn’t been evolved, this might not have been winnable for her.
Hmm… I know this. He’s about equal with Hinata, huh? And she was like a natural enemy to all monsters, but it looks to me like this guy’s honed himself purely against humans, and individual targets for that matter. His type certainly can be a nuisance."

 

[Shiraito983]

To support the scaling chain, Guy stated that those who could "solve" Infinite Prison are on his and Velzard's level, which likely talking about strength.

more like ultimate skill holder

 

[Catpija]

more like ultimate skill holder

could be, can also be talking about strength. thats why this was only a supporting scan and cannot be used alone.

 

[Shiraito983]

she is 5B with nihilistic magic in vol 20 so ya i agree 5B on ultima

 

[Nihility]

Well about H-3A , I actually don't have much against the feat apart from the fact that Velgrynd might not have shattered it physically ,rather she might've used US or nullified it somehow and that it's pretty inconsistent

And unless you can prove her Dimension is as big as an universe I disagree,also considering Volume-20 feats and some statements from Volume-19

 

[Nihility]

she is 5B with nihilistic magic in vol 20 so ya i agree 5B on ultima

Being comparable to Carrera is enough here .Since Carrera can control and exert force equivalent to 5-B .And also the fact that kondou survived abyss annihilation and carrera is stronger than him

 

[BlackCat]

I agree with Carrera 5-B and Velgrynd High3A but I have a question rimuru after evolving and defeating Velgrynd will rimuru be scaled?

 

[AzuRizzz]

I agree with Carrera 5-B and Velgrynd High3A but I have a question rimuru after evolving and defeating Velgrynd will rimuru be scaled?

probably

 

[Nihility]

I agree with Carrera 5-B and Velgrynd High3A but I have a question rimuru after evolving and defeating Velgrynd will rimuru be scaled?

If it gets accepted then of course yes

 

[oyasumi]

"I-I can't believe it. I confirmed the spatial vibration. It seems that the space-time is affected by the fluctuation of the huge, too powerful magic essence!"
"No, no way... is that the work of His Excellency 'Marshal'...!?"
"That's just stupid."
After all, it was a phenomenon beyond human comprehension, beyond human imagination.
I couldn't understand what was happening, and there was no way anyone could imitate such a situation──everyone was escaping from reality.

disagree on 3A. since the size is unknown unless there's statement of size

high 3-A for those same or above velgrynd too
Velgrynd likely high 3-A by shattering insulated unprisonment
Which is a combination of unlimited unprisonment and insulated space (high 3-A structure bc « infinite number of imaginary space » )

Disagree on H3A, this one is done by analysis like they said

agree on 5B

 

[BlackCat]

probably

If it gets accepted then of course yes

I have more questions If Carrera gets 5B besides Kondo Who can scale with her?

 

[Nihility]

I have more questions If Carrera gets 5B besides Kondo Who can scale with her?

I already listed them once before ...Here you go :
1.All the primordials 2.Zegion(Comparable to Carrera) 3.Kondou 4.Damrada(Comparable to Ultima )5.Minits(Likely Comparable to Damrada)
6.Benimaru(Defeated Minits )

 

[Peak]

There's an statement that says he is stronger than Damrada .

"In the imperial army, Granit’s brute strength was second only to Velgrynd’s. He was stronger than Damrada, even, and likely an even match with Kondo. That remained just as true now. But there was a good reason why he was entrusted with guarding Ludora. He just never had a chance to get fully serious in battle."-Volume 15,Chapter 5

I proposed 5-B damrada because Ultima=Damrada?

Well anyway I am not sure whether or not we should scale Imperial generals(Damrada and Minits )to 5-B because they pretty much melted once the patrons gained Ultimate skills ...

this is not Minute, but Granit, and honestly, Granit seems to overestimate himself, as Benimaru easily beat him while having great doubts if he could beat Kondou, and actually i don't know about ultima but i think i'm ok with her being 5-B

It's Damrada not kondou .And if Damrada scales to ultima then he can get 5-B, no?

"Ultima chuckled as she observed Damrada. She could feel his power—an incredible amount for a human being, and exceptional even as a Saint. If she hadn’t been evolved, this might not have been winnable for her.
Hmm… I know this. He’s about equal with Hinata, huh? And she was like a natural enemy to all monsters, but it looks to me like this guy’s honed himself purely against humans, and individual targets for that matter. His type certainly can be a nuisance."

I disagree ig, Ultima wasn't taking the fight seriously, she treated the fight like training the whole time, I don't think Damrada should escalate to that, especially when he went one-shots by Ultima when she decided to use her first move

 

[Nihility]

this is not Minute, but Granit, and honestly, Granit seems to overestimate himself, as Benimaru easily beat him while having great doubts if he could beat Kondou, and actually i don't know about ultima but i think i'm ok with her being 5-B

I disagree ig, Ultima wasn't taking the fight seriously, she treated the fight like training the whole time, I don't think Damrada should escalate to that, especially when he went one-shots by Ultima when she decided to use her first move

My bad about the Minits(Granit) part .Yes while he overestimates himself the quoted text isn't him ,It's the narrator .

And I was iffy about Damrada since he got one shot . I am fine with that .Well in that case the ones that would chain scale Carrera are the Primordials ,Zegion and Kondou

 

[Peak]

My bad about the Minits(Granit) part .Yes while he overestimates himself the quoted text isn't him ,It's the narrator .

And I was iffy about Damrada since he got one shot . I am fine with that .Well in that case the ones that would chain scale Carrera are the Primordials ,Zegion and Kondou

Granit would probably just make Benimaru be 5-B so I think I'm fine with that, I also agree with Carrera, Zegion and the trio, but not Luminas and Hinata

 

[BlackCat]

Granit

What is Granit? I don't know the name at all.

 

[BlackCat]

I already listed them once before ...Here you go :
1.All the primordials 2.Zegion(Comparable to Carrera) 3.Kondou 4.Damrada(Comparable to Ultima )5.Minits(Likely Comparable to Damrada)
6.Benimaru(Defeated Minits )

What about Milim? Can you compare with anyone? And what tier should be in LN 3A?

 

[BlackCat]

Granit would probably just make Benimaru be 5-B so I think I'm fine with that, I also agree with Carrera, Zegion and the trio, but not Luminas and Hinata

I have more questions in the future, will Hinata have a chance to upgrade?

 

[Shiraito983]

all comparable and stronger than carrera= planetary - planetary above

 

[BlackCat]

all comparable and stronger than carrera= planetary - planetary above

It means future Hinata will be 5B. Am I right?

 

[Catpija]

Disagree on H3A, this one is done by analysis like they said

What analysis? Velgyrnd broke the Insulated Inprisonment with just a roar

The moment Velgrynd realized that Veldora was consumed before her eyes, her anger blew away all sense of reason.
“My sweet little brother… How dare you…!!”
She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roar was enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon was enraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she would unleash all her hostility upon Rimuru. (Volume 15 - Chapter 2)

 

[Catpija]

That's because hundreds of seconds have passed anyway, if a roar was enough then Velgrynd could have done it from the start

Insulated Inprisonment was purposedly made to withstand Velgyrnd's attack, yet because of how strong she is, she would destroy the seal/barrier anyway within a certain time span. yes i know this is still an overtime feat, however infinite divided by any number is still infinite. this is why an overtime High 3-A, Low 2-C, and 2-A feat would get a solid rating as long as the timeframe itself isn't infinite too.

So thanks to an unexpected boon, Ciel was now more dependable than ever for me. But I couldn’t forget my objective. Before Velgrynd made another move, I needed to free Veldora’s mind. So how many seconds can we hold her back, exactly?
Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.(Volume 15 - Chapter 2)

Also, Ciel was manipulating and designed Insulated Inprisonment to specially contain Velgyrnd by analysing her own nature and characteristics.

Calculation of Velgrynd’s magicule count complete. After accounting for the subject’s nature and characteristics, I determined it is possible to encase the target in Insulated Imprisonment for several hundred seconds. Activating!
Before Velgrynd realized it, a layered magic circle had surrounded her.
This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.
The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature, humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing within it. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d be impossible for her to leave this airspace. (Volume 15 - Chapter 2)

Not to mention that at that time, Velgyrnd just used her strongest attack which drained most of her energy. Which is why Ciel immediately used it at that time.

Even Velgrynd, who seemed so overwhelming to me, was no match for it. Its suggestion—to have her activate her finisher skill, then wait for her magicule count to dwindle right afterward—was a perfect strategy. The combination of my abilities and the way she responded to certain things was what made it work…which makes it sound easy, but I have no idea how much computing power it’d take to make this possible. We were hopefully outclassed in magicule count, after all, so if we wanted to cage up this superior opponent, we needed an Insulated Imprisonment built efficiently and with only the elements I enjoyed an advantage in. Call it a “Calculated Prison” I created with my partner—that’s what it took for Ciel to score a complete victory.(Volume 15 - Chapter 2)

 

[Peak]

Insulated Inprisonment was purposedly made to withstand Velgyrnd's attack, yet because of how strong she is, she would destroy the seal/barrier anyway within a certain time span. yes i know this is still an overtime feat, however infinite divided by any number is still infinite. this is why an overtime High 3-A, Low 2-C, and 2-A feat would get a solid rating as long as the timeframe itself isn't infinite too

which is strange to say the least, as she wasn't constantly trying to get out or destroy, but was trying to transfer into the other parallel existence, with that it is more consistent that the sealing has weakened and not that Velgrynd has destroyed it over time, and as said earlier, it is questionable that the unlimited prison is H3A size, if that were the case, Rimuru slime version would have AP H3A for having managed to swallow Veldora in the first volume

 

[Starfeldway]

disagree on 3A. since the size is unknown unless there's statement of size


Disagree on H3A, this one is done by analysis like they said

agree on 5B

you all are disagreeing with your headcanon and "later volume" misconceptions
the thing is she used her power to shatter it you saying she "analysed it" which wad never shown is a negative figurative or argument for this you shouldn't use the word "maybe" in trying to disagree with the op I understand @Peak disagreement with 3-A very clear but very unclear to high 3-A
you guys are only saying maybe she analysed it which isn't a clear way to refute something, by the context and by the raw
yes as shown by more OP ciel San predicted velgrynd can shatter it with raw power overtime and calculated when she would, I'm not sure velgrynd is capable of full blown analysis on this
I wonder who have shattered infinite prison on analysis, rimuru freed veldora cuz he could just undo the skill because he got the Lord of vows which unlimited imprisonment is the sub skill for
now I ask again why isn't velgrynd high 3-A and your "she maybe analysed it" is head canon or jumping into an oblivion

 

[Starfeldway]

which is strange to say the least, as she wasn't constantly trying to get out or destroy, but was trying to transfer into the other parallel existence, with that it is more consistent that the sealing has weakened and not that Velgrynd has destroyed it over time, and as said earlier, it is questionable that the unlimited prison is H3A size, if that were the case, Rimuru slime version would have AP H3A for having managed to swallow Veldora in the first volume

nah it isn't questionable literally if you read volume 11 you won't say it is questionable the infinite prison where chloe and hinata soul were in everyone knows this isn't a questionable thing,also its infinite between layers,Rimuru just eat outher space,As a whole when rimuru eat inprisonment its not expanded in stomach Still same size
like I said in my op velgrynd shattered isolated imprisonment which is combining spatial isolation and unlimited imprisonment as basis which velgrynd was actually trapped in a infinite dimensional space

 

[Starfeldway]

nah it isn't questionable literally if you read volume 11 you won't say it is questionable the infinite prison where chloe and hinata soul were in everyone knows this isn't a questionable thing,also rimuru didn't eat unlimited prison there must be a reason honestly that one was questionable to whether its infinite since veldora aura leaked out of it so idk for that I'll ask some supporters of what they think

honestly this doesn't look like analysis

 

[Peak]

rimuru freed veldora cuz he could just undo the skill because he got the Lord of vows which unlimited imprisonment is the sub skill for
now I ask again why isn't velgrynd high 3-A and your "she maybe analysed

not necessarily, he got Uriel after the full analysis of unlimited prisons if i'm not wrong, and actually, that unlimited prison scale doesn't even make sense, this should only grant Velgrynd space-time manipulation (or resistance?) since it's destroying a space-time barrier, like I said, Rimuru literally devoured Veldora along with the unlimited prison in the first volume, will you say he has H3A AP and ranges? Because we know that's not the case, you can't take a feat and ignore all the inconsistencies there are about it, this without considering the later volumes.

 

[Starfeldway]

he devoured

not necessarily, he got Uriel after the full analysis of unlimited prisons if i'm not wrong, and actually, that unlimited prison scale doesn't even make sense, this should only grant Velgrynd space-time manipulation (or resistance?) since it's destroying a space-time barrier, like I said, Rimuru literally devoured Veldora along with the unlimited prison in the first volume, will you say he has H3A AP and ranges? Because we know that's not the case, you can't take a feat and ignore all the inconsistencies there are about it, this without considering the later volumes.

he devoured veldora not the unlimited prison
the unlimited prison was auto part of veldora

 

[Peak]

he devoured
he devoured veldora not the unlimited prison
the unlimited prison was auto part of veldora

???

What do you mean by that? Rimuru devoured Veldora and the infinite prison to analyze from inside his stomach, what do you mean by "didn't devour the unlimited prison"? This is already losing its meaning

 

[Nihility]

Well the Unlimited Imprisonment seems to be like Gojo's infinity.From the outside it seems like a shiny stuff covering his body but the inside of the subspace is infinite . Slicing through Gojo's infinity only grants spacetime manipulation .Which is again a Head canon just to protect the consistency of the verse .You can see in EP-1 that Veldora is inside a shiny stuff covering him ,Veldora called it unlimited imprisonment. Rimuru devoured him along with it From outside it isn't that big but the inside is infinite like Gojo's infinity .
However Chloe doesn't divide the subspace rather traps opponents into infinite layer of imaginary dimension so it's probably different .

It's becoming really hard to reach a conclusion here so better leave it to the staffs ,Velgrynd wasn't able to pass Uriel's barrier with her spatial abilities so saying so saying she used spacetime manip and similar to break free does seem a bit off.

 

[AzuRizzz]

not necessarily, he got Uriel after the full analysis of unlimited prisons if i'm not wrong, and actually, that unlimited prison scale doesn't even make sense, this should only grant Velgrynd space-time manipulation (or resistance?) since it's destroying a space-time barrier, like I said, Rimuru literally devoured Veldora along with the unlimited prison in the first volume, will you say he has H3A AP and ranges? Because we know that's not the case, you can't take a feat and ignore all the inconsistencies there are about it, this without considering the later volumes

Well Unlimited imprisonment is still finite in size though being seen to wrap around veldora as a shiny barrier, but it is the space between outside and inside "the barrier" being infinite.

As Nihility said, Unlimited imprisonment is like Gojo's infinity yet gojo was still sealed as it's the infinity around him being wrapped along him.

Rimuru devoured it but didn't really destroyed it, it's more like he transferred it in a separate dimension which is his stomach in order to analyze it.

Destroying that infinite space is H3A.

And in the context, it doesn't seem to imply anything other than breaking it with brute force/raw power like in DBS breaking space times through power scaling. (granting them both L2C and Space time manipulation)

 

[AzuRizzz]

Infinite is still infinite so, and affecting and infinite sized structure with spatial or space time manipulation is accepted as H3A and L2C iirc

 

[Nihility]

Infinite is still infinite so, and affecting and infinite sized structure with spatial or space time manipulation is accepted as H3A and L2C iirc

So do you agree ?
I am agreeing here .Even if it does mess up consistent scaling I can't refute the OP

 

[AzuRizzz]

So do you agree ?
I am agreeing here .Even if it does mess up consistent scaling I can't refute the OP

Pretty much, i agree

 

[Catpija]

which is strange to say the least, as she wasn't constantly trying to get out or destroy, but was trying to transfer into the other parallel existence, with that it is more consistent that the sealing has weakened and not that Velgrynd has destroyed it over time, and as said earlier

Don't try to say that its more consistent for the seal to weakened when my scan states the opposite. Velgyrnd decided to use Parallel Existence instead because she relied it too much, and Ciel use this at her advantage. It literally said that if Velgyrnd tried to rampage, the seal would only hold for 200 second, its still count as a feat.

 

[Peak]

Well the Unlimited Imprisonment seems to be like Gojo's infinity.From the outside it seems like a shiny stuff covering his body but the inside of the subspace is infinite . Slicing through Gojo's infinity only grants spacetime manipulation .Which is again a Head canon just to protect the consistency of the verse .You can see in EP-1 that Veldora is inside a shiny stuff covering him ,Veldora called it unlimited imprisonment. Rimuru devoured him along with it From outside it isn't that big but the inside is infinite like Gojo's infinity .
However Chloe doesn't divide the subspace rather traps opponents into infinite layer of imaginary dimension so it's probably different

it's not really different, and to say that only the infinite inside the barrier would be an outlier, seeing as Veldora's aura still managed to interfere with the outside without any problem

Well Unlimited imprisonment is still finite in size though being seen to wrap around veldora as a shiny barrier, but it is the space between outside and inside "the barrier" being infinite.

this just supports the fact that it is spacetime manipulation

Don't try to say that its more consistent for the seal to weakened when my scan states the opposite. Velgyrnd decided to use Parallel Existence instead because she relied it too much, and Ciel use this at her advantage. It literally said that if Velgyrnd tried to rampage, the seal would only hold for 200 second, its still count as a feat.

The thing is, Velgrynd wasn't continuously trying to attack, she just decided to attack when she got enraged to see Veldora being devoured, and the narrative makes a point of emphasizing the time that has passed, that is, the barrier weakens on its own, not with Velgrynd's attacks, and even if it were, as I said, it would be more coherent and consistent if it were space-time manipulation, because we know that destroying a space-time barrier is a feat of space-time manipulation, not AP, plus I've covered several things that take away all the logic behind H3A durability, also, looking from another perspective, would a character with infinite speed need H3A to pass an infinite barrier? Because as far as I know, the speed of the attacks could reach without problems, the same for attacks that ignore spacetime which is common in Tensura, we have a lot of evidence that shows that this is manipulation of spacetime and not AP, that's why Gojo doesn't have H3A durability, I don't see why with Tensura it would be special, while the argument for H3A is flimsy and the earlier and later volumes bring only contradictions and inconsistencies, my vote doesn't change, I disagree with the OP for everything I've mentioned before

 

[Starfeldway]

???

What do you mean by that? Rimuru devoured Veldora and the infinite prison to analyze from inside his stomach, what do you mean by "didn't devour the unlimited prison"? This is already losing its meaning

the inside is infinite not the outside