Tier 9-A Partners in Crime Tournament; Round 3 Match 2 Semi-Finals: Kamen Rider Black Sun and Shadow Moon vs Scorpion and Sub-Zero

[IxaSaga2]

Kamen Rider Shadow Moon and Kamen Rider Black Sun VS Scorpion and Sub-Zero

vs

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Tournament Match Rules

• All are restricted to 9-A.
• Speed is equalized.
• Characters have their standard equipment.
• Battles take place in Shang Tsung's Island.
• Combatants start 30 meters away from each other.

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Kamen Rider Black Sun and Kamen Rider Shadow Moon:
Scorpion and Sub-Zero:

 

[Catbowtie]

Thank you

I'm not going for a lengthy post this time.

Sub-Zero's and Scorpion's main win conditions are either Sub-Zero incapacitating the duo through his Ice Manipulation or just beating them until they can't fight anymore. Both parties start out of sight (see tournament's original rules), so Sub-Zero and Scorpion would stealth and plan on how to deal with Black Sun and Shadow Moon. They would start with Sub-Zero freezing either of them, then team up on the other Kamen Rider.

 

[Shadowslash125]

We fought through the same type of enemies and advanced together. But alas, only one of us can make it to the finals. May the best win.

I'm also starting off short. Stealth is going to be impossible against the rider duo. A minor Kaijin can sense the opponent and how powerful they are in a nearby range around the corner. The Grand Priests (Strongest Kaijins whose senses should be around the same as Kaijin Form BS and SM) can immediately sense Black Sun upon transforming for the first time in 50 years and there's Kamen Rider Black Sun, who sensed Shadow Moon coming from very far away. Shadow Moon's senses should upscale from Black Sun due to being superior in performance and he was able to locate Black Sun on his own with just his senses. They will be able to sense the ninjas easily and either go for them immediately or wait for them to initiate something.

 

[Catbowtie]

The ninjas don't have much answer for that, the only thing that may circumvent this is Scorpion's Interdimensional Teleportation.

His portals and teleportation reaches throughout the realms

The realms are different dimensions.

Whoever Sub-Zero decides to blast depends on what he feels like. Of course It'll miss because of the Kamen Rider's senses, so it'll have to come down to close-quarters-combat. Sub-Zero and Scorpion have a long history of fights (Literally all of their fights from MKX to MK11 are canonical, with each of them being superior in skill to people who also have a history of martial arts) How skilled are the Kamen Riders?

 

[Shadowslash125]

The ninjas don't have much answer for that, the only thing that may circumvent this is Scorpion's Interdimensional Teleportation.
The realms are different dimensions.

While the riders won't actually be able to sense the teleportation itself, Scorpion's teleportation can produce air and explosive effects (which would incorporate flames) that can be sensed by their sensor antenna, being able to sense air currents and temperature with them. Either that and/or their extrasensory perception picks Scorpion up after his teleportation but before he lands an attack on any one of the two.

How skilled are the Kamen Riders?

They're definitely not as skilled as the ninjas to me but I'll be listing down the skill feats regardless. Black Sun has fended off against Bilgenia (who could wipe out an entire special police force with just one arm) and in his civilian form against government guards. Along with Kaijins that use unusual powers, he has also won against Kamen Rider Shadow Moon himself, who is superior to him, and all of this (with the exception of Black Sun and Shadow Moon's final confrontation) was done with a crippled leg. Shadow Moon is also able to do the same, but is only marginally outskilled by Kotaro.

it'll have to come down to close-quarters-combat

While they lack experience, they would at least be able to last a bit in CQC despite the huge disadvantage in AP/Dura with their usual senses and perception. The one stat they have an advantage on would be their Class M LS in comparison to the ninjas' Class K LS. This is especially dangerous when paired with Shadow Moon's Telekinesis, which is usually his first move, casually knocking away three of his kaijin brethren in different positions immediately after transforming. Those three have LS (or at least downscale slightly) from this feat. This is just him being casual because he can amp his TK as well. Unfortunately, Black Sun is limited with his range, but he can still restrain and do LS-related stuff along with deflecting projectiles with his blade.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

While the riders won't actually be able to sense the teleportation itself, Scorpion's teleportation can produce air and explosive effects (which would incorporate flames) that can be sensed by their sensor antenna, being able to sense air currents and temperature with them. Either that and/or their extrasensory perception picks Scorpion up after his teleportation but before he lands an attack on any one of the two.

Gotcha. Scorpion would try to grapple and restrain one of the Kamen Riders. I will also note that Scorpion and Sub-Zero generally don't kill their opponents unless their opponents want to kill them, and even then, they may just knock them out. They won't be exuding murderous intent initially.

They're definitely not as skilled as the ninjas to me but I'll be listing down the skill feats regardless. Black Sun has fended off against Bilgenia (who could wipe out an entire special police force with just one arm) and in his civilian form against government guards. Along with Kaijins that use unusual powers, he has also won against Kamen Rider Shadow Moon himself, who is superior to him, and all of this (with the exception of Black Sun and Shadow Moon's final confrontation) was done with a crippled leg. Shadow Moon is also able to do the same, but is only marginally outskilled by Kotaro.

Gotcha. I'll go ahead and detail my obligatory skill feats too

The Mortal Kombat skill chain is one BIG self-referential circle​

Basically the whole skill chain is just a gigantic "This person beats this person who can beat this person and that person beat this other person"

The experience/skilled chain goes all the way back to Mortal Kombat X. Johnny Cage, who was under the impression that the Mortal Kombat Tournament was merely a stage play, beats Reptile and Baraka. Reptile has no showings of skill except for the background knowledge that he served Shao Kahn and his techniques, but Baraka is said to have "single-handedly defeated a rebel faction." Later on Johnny Cage defeats Sonya and Kano, both of which are trained military people. Shortly after Johnny beats Sonya, Sonya goes on to beat Sub-Zero (Not Kuai Lang, this is Bi-Han), Raiden, Kitana and Jade at the same time, then Kano. Raiden was holding back, but the latter three and Sub-Zero were actively trying to kill Sonya. This then comes to Cryax, who beats Johnny Cage in a 1v1 fight, then it goes to Scorpion, who beats both Cryax and Sektor in a 2v1 fight. Sektor is equal to Cryax, although a little weaker because Cryax beats him in a 1v1. Scorpion beats Bi-han and kills him in the fight. It then goes to Smoke, who beats Kitana, then beats Kano. Smoke then confronts Shang Tung and Reptile, with Shang Tung saying that he believes that Bi-Han was more powerful than Smoke, and Smoke then says that shapeshifting into Sub-Zero (Bi-Han) wouldn't give him his skill, which looks to say that Sub-Zero is at least notable enough to where Smoke feels the need to express that. Smoke beats Shang Tung and Reptile in a 2v1 fight, and then defeats robot Sektor. In Mortal Kombat, turning into a robot is explicitly mentioned to be an "upgrade," so robot Sektor is better than regular Sektor, who is comparable to Cryax. This chain then goes to Sub-Zero (Kuai Lang, whom I will be calling Tundra for clarity) defeating a robot Cryax in a fight and forcing him to retreat. Tundra is then able to beat Scorpion in a one on one fight. Here's where the ****shit begins if it hasn't already. Stryker is one-man cop SWAT team, and Kabal is rookie cop that is a member of the Black Dragon clan and has fighting skills. Stryker beats Reptile, Milena (Kitana's clone), Kintaro, and Ermac. Kabal beats Kano, Milena and an enhanced Bi-Han at the same time, beats a cyborg Tundra, and Sheeva. Stay with me now, Kabal is currently at the top of the skill chain. That Cyborg Sub-Zero most notably beats a cyber Sektor and Bi-Han. The chain then comes to Nightwolf, who beats a cyborg Cryax. Cyborg Sektor is then shown to beat Smoke in a one on one fight, and Nightwolf then beats Sektor. This all then comes down to Sindel effortlessly outmaneuvering and beating everyone in the room, Nightwolf included. Shao Kahn is superior in skill, and Raiden beats him in a fight. Why does this matter? Because a younger Scorpion is able to beat Raiden in a 1v1 fight. This Scorpion is less skilled and experienced than Hanzo (The one in this Thread) Kuai Lang is equal to Sub-Zero.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, if the riders aren't at least around Raiden levels of skill, then they're getting outskilled by Kuai Lang and Hanzo Hasahi.

While they lack experience, they would at least be able to last a bit in CQC despite the huge disadvantage in AP/Dura with their usual senses and perception. The one stat they have an advantage on would be their Class M LS in comparison to the ninjas' Class K LS. This is especially dangerous when paired with Shadow Moon's Telekinesis, which is usually his first move, casually knocking away three of his kaijin brethren in different positions immediately after transforming. Those three have LS (or at least downscale slightly) from this feat. This is just him being casual because he can amp his TK as well. Unfortunately, Black Sun is limited with his range, but he can still restrain and do LS-related stuff along with deflecting projectiles with his blade.

Scorpion has dealt with a TK user with the likes of Kenshi Takahashi, not so much for Sub-Zero. Scorpion could mislead Shadow Moon's TK with his Illusion Creation by creating a fake afterimage, even being able to make it a duplicate if he feels like he needs one, or he could try to aim dodge Shadow Moon's hands but eh. Does Shadow Moon's TK need to travel a distance to get to Scorpion and Sub-Zero or does it just appear on them?

 

[Shadowslash125]

Gotcha. Scorpion would try to grapple and restrain one of the Kamen Riders.

Not easy. Without even considering that they may be able to dodge it, any of the two can escape Scorpion's grasp thanks to their LS advantage.

I will also note that Scorpion and Sub-Zero generally don't kill their opponents unless their opponents want to kill them, and even then, they may just knock them out. They won't be exuding murderous intent initially.

By virtue of them exhibiting supernatural abilities and the riders' own senses telling them how strong they are, the riders would opt to kill or at least end the fight as fast as possible. They would probably lean towards killing as they usually do this to strangers who aren't humans, as they either humiliate or spare the enemies they personally know unless enraged.

Basically the whole skill chain is just a gigantic "This person beats this person who can beat this person and that person beat this other person"

Simplified and Summarized it for everyone else. Tell me if I worded it wrongly or something.
I also went through the entire MK9 Story Mode cutscenes to solidify this skill chain
Putting it all together we have this:

• The Sore Losers(Reptile ? Baraka ? Sheeva ? Kano) are beaten by everyone in the chain
• The Humans(Sonya < Johnny Cage < Jax) should be equivalent to Normal Lin Kuei(Sektor < Cyrax < Bi-Han) because some of one side are beaten by one from the other side. Scorpion defeated the latter party and Sonya defeated Raiden who was holding back.
• The Humans should also be comparable to I don't know what to name them(Smoke = Jade = Kitana) for the same reason for being comparable with the normal Lin Kuei. Smoke defeated Shang Tsung in Bi-Han's form while Kitana defeated Shang Tsung. Mileena should be comparable to Kitana due to being her clone, who Jade defeated. Jax defeated Jade and Sonya defeated Kitana. Smoke has also defeated Cyber-Sektor, who should be an upgrade from his human counterpart. Smoke has also said that Bi-Han was more skilled than him. Jade and Kitana has defeated Smoke, Kitana has defeated Jade and Smoke has defeated Kitana.
• Base Tundra would be more skilled than Smoke, and he defeated Cyber-Cyrax and Scorpion.
• Stryker defeated Ermac, who absolutely destroyed Jax and Johnny Cage. Ermac himself had been defeated by Base Tundra. Stryker has also defeated Mileena.
• Kabal is said to be a rookie by your words so he would probably be lower than Stryker. Despite this, He defeated Noob (Enhanced Bi-Han), Mileena and Cyber-Tundra.
• Cyber-Tundra himself has defeated Ermac and Noob.
• Nightwolf would be comparable to Sindel who wrecked Sonya, Stryker, Kabal, CyberT, Jade, Kitana, Smoke, Johnny Cage and Jax. Scorpion defeated him, who I presume was holding back.
• Liu Kang, Raiden and Shao Kahn are at the top of the skill chain.

Sore Losers < Humans = Normal Lin Kuei = I Don't Know What To Name Them = Raiden Holding Back = Shang Tsung = Mileena = Cyber Sektor ?< Cyber Cyrax < Nightwolf Holding Back ?< Ermac < Scorpion < Base Tundra ? Noob < Cyber Tundra < Kabal < Stryker < Sindel = Nightwolf < Liu Kang = Raiden = Shao Kahn
? stands for unknown but when paired with > or <, it will stand for unknown but most likely lesser than or greater than.

Because a younger Scorpion is able to beat Raiden in a 1v1 fight. This Scorpion is less skilled and experienced than Hanzo (The one in this Thread) Kuai Lang is equal to Sub-Zero.

I can't be sure whether Raiden is going all out here, blinded by anger by his words at the end of the video or holding back like he did with Sonya. Full Power Raiden is at the top of the skill chain for a reason (though I may be wrong since I haven't played MK11 yet) and a Scorpion after killing Bi-Han would not be as skilled as MK9 Raiden.

Anyways for skill comparisons, BS and SM might be about Stryker level since they did away with Government guards protecting the prime minister of the country, who should be comparable to SWATs, which are comparable to the special police force sent for story reasons that were wiped out by Bilgenia with just one arm. Black Sun and Shadow Moon outskill Bilgenia with two arms.
EDIT: I forgot to mention Bilgenia himself is the personal bodyguard of the prime minister so he should be pretty skilled too. He should be comparable to the Three Grand Priests, since one of them casually wiped out all of the prime minister's guards during a meeting.

Scorpion has dealt with a TK user with the likes of Kenshi Takahashi, not so much for Sub-Zero. Scorpion could mislead Shadow Moon's TK with his Illusion Creation by creating a fake afterimage, even being able to make it a duplicate if he feels like he needs one, or he could try to aim dodge Shadow Moon's hands but eh. Does Shadow Moon's TK need to travel a distance to get to Scorpion and Sub-Zero or does it just appear on them?

Illusion Creation would probably be countered by Shadow Moon's senses and perception along with the fact that Shadow Moon's TK is usually AOE (and might stay AOE due to duo vs duo) but he can use single target TK. As for the TK itself, it travels fast enough to be considered appearing on them as no one in the series has ever dodged a TK and in a speed-equal matchup like this, it's very unlikely to do so.

 

[Catbowtie]

Not easy. Without even considering that they may be able to dodge it, any of the two can escape Scorpion's grasp thanks to their LS advantage.

Gotcha. I was just telling you Scorpion's starting move once they begin to fight.

By virtue of them exhibiting supernatural abilities and the riders' own senses telling them how strong they are, the riders would opt to kill or at least end the fight as fast as possible. They would probably lean towards killing as they usually do this to strangers who aren't humans, as they either humiliate or spare the enemies they personally know unless enraged.

Scorpion and Sub-Zero are humans. The profile links aren't accurate to the keys they are in. It's the MK11 (Present) versions with Kuai Lang in his Grandmaster Key.

Simplified and Summarized it for everyone else. Tell me if I worded it wrongly or something.
I also went through the entire MK9 Story Mode cutscenes to solidify this skill chain
Putting it all together we have this:

• The Sore Losers(Reptile ? Baraka ? Sheeva ? Kano) are beaten by everyone in the chain
• The Humans(Sonya < Johnny Cage < Jax) should be equivalent to Normal Lin Kuei(Sektor < Cyrax < Bi-Han) because some of one side are beaten by one from the other side. Scorpion defeated the latter party and Sonya defeated Raiden who was holding back.
• The Humans should also be comparable to I don't know what to name them(Smoke = Jade = Kitana) for the same reason for being comparable with the normal Lin Kuei. Smoke defeated Shang Tsung in Bi-Han's form while Kitana defeated Shang Tsung. Mileena should be comparable to Kitana due to being her clone, who Jade defeated. Jax defeated Jade and Sonya defeated Kitana. Smoke has also defeated Cyber-Sektor, who should be an upgrade from his human counterpart. Smoke has also said that Bi-Han was more skilled than him. Jade and Kitana has defeated Smoke, Kitana has defeated Jade and Smoke has defeated Kitana.
• Base Tundra would be more skilled than Smoke, and he defeated Cyber-Cyrax and Scorpion.
• Stryker defeated Ermac, who absolutely destroyed Jax and Johnny Cage. Ermac himself had been defeated by Base Tundra. Stryker has also defeated Mileena.
• Kabal is said to be a rookie by your words so he would probably be lower than Stryker. Despite this, He defeated Noob (Enhanced Bi-Han), Mileena and Cyber-Tundra.
• Cyber-Tundra himself has defeated Ermac and Noob.
• Nightwolf would be comparable to Sindel who wrecked Sonya, Stryker, Kabal, CyberT, Jade, Kitana, Smoke, Johnny Cage and Jax. Scorpion defeated him, who I presume was holding back.
• Liu Kang, Raiden and Shao Kahn are at the top of the skill chain.

Sore Losers < Humans = Normal Lin Kuei = I Don't Know What To Name Them = Raiden Holding Back = Shang Tsung = Mileena = Cyber Sektor ?< Cyber Cyrax < Nightwolf Holding Back ?< Ermac < Scorpion < Base Tundra ? Noob < Cyber Tundra < Kabal < Stryker < Sindel = Nightwolf < Liu Kang = Raiden = Shao Kahn
? stands for unknown but when paired with > or <, it will stand for unknown but most likely lesser than or greater than.

Sore Losers is right. Reptile, Baraka, Sheeva, and Kano have no major wins to their name and are pretty much just elite mooks.

Humans & Normal Lin Kuei skill chain is correct, and both parties are equivalent to each other.

I Don't Know What To Name Them skill chain is correct. They're pretty much interchangeable, but I'd lean towards Smoke being at the top (=<) for being able to defeat Shang Tsung in Bi-Han's form and Reptile at the same time, and then beating Cyber-Sektor.

Base Tundra is also correct.

Nightwolf wouldn't be comparable to Sindel because even though he bested Sindel while weakened, we see that she gets right back up and laughs at Nightwolf, while also being uninjured. The scene cuts, so we don't know exactly what happened, but when the scene comes back, we see Sindel besting Nightwolf in combat. It was shown that Sindel wasn't taking everyone she defeated seriously, until after Nightwolf brought her to her knees the first time. I would say Nightwolf initially outmaneuvered an unserious Sindel, but falls against her in an extended fight.

I would say the scaling chain looks like this:

Sore Losers < Humans = Normal Lin Kuei = I Don't Know What To Name Them = Raiden Holding Back = Shang Tsung = Mileena = Cyber Sektor ?< Cyber Cyrax < Nightwolf Holding Back ?< Ermac < Scorpion < Base Tundra ? Noob < Cyber Tundra < Kabal < Stryker < Nightwolf =< Sindel (Nightwolf initially outmaneuvered Sindel, but was still defeated by her) < Shao Kahn < Liu Kang =< Raiden (Upon further scrutiny, Liu Kang was able to beat Shao Kahn in a one-on-one fight, and even after fighting Raiden, he felt like he was still able to fight Shao Kahn because he ran towards him. The only reason Raiden "lost" to Shao Kahn was because Raiden was letting himself get beat up. Liu Kang and Raiden are comparable to each other but I'd put Raiden as Greater than Equal to because in Mortal Kombat 11, we're given the knowledge that Raiden and Liu Kang always fight each other in all timelines. We're actually shown how the fights go out, and it's usually them being able to stand up to one another and fight as equals, with neither having the explicit skill advantage)

I can't be sure whether Raiden is going all out here, blinded by anger by his words at the end of the video or holding back like he did with Sonya. Full Power Raiden is at the top of the skill chain for a reason (though I may be wrong since I haven't played MK11 yet) and a Scorpion after killing Bi-Han would not be as skilled as MK9 Raiden.

Anyways for skill comparisons, BS and SM might be about Stryker level since they did away with Government guards protecting the prime minister of the country, who should be comparable to SWATs, which are comparable to the special police force sent for story reasons that were wiped out by Bilgenia with just one arm. Black Sun and Shadow Moon outskill Bilgenia with two arms.
EDIT: I forgot to mention Bilgenia himself is the personal bodyguard of the prime minister so he should be pretty skilled too. He should be comparable to the Three Grand Priests, since one of them casually wiped out all of the prime minister's guards during a meeting.

In the fight, Raiden is under the impression that Scorpion is one of Kronika's lackeys, and fights him with the intent to defeat him. We know from other timelines that Raiden usually fights the same way, so I would extrapolate that Raiden would fight Scorpion the same way and be defeated by him. Only when Raiden uses the Amulet to defeat him through sheer AP does Scorpion "lose," but it can also be said that Scorpion initially outmaneuvered Raiden, but I think Scorpion being able to stand up to Raiden is good enough given where he's at on the skill chain.

I'd put BS & SM at around but below Nightwolf level because of their showings. Can I see a scan for this so I know exactly how they did it?

Illusion Creation would probably be countered by Shadow Moon's senses and perception along with the fact that Shadow Moon's TK is usually AOE (and might stay AOE due to duo vs duo) but he can use single target TK. As for the TK itself, it travels fast enough to be considered appearing on them as no one in the series has ever dodged a TK and in a speed-equal matchup like this, it's very unlikely to do so.

Okay, I say that because Scorpion could teleport out of the TK restrain, like he did against Johnny Cage when Johnny Cage was restraining him. Sub-Zero has only briefly "fought" Kenshi, and I put quotes on that because their fight was just Kenshi throwing him out a helicopter. Sub-Zero could also put up a Forcefield against SM's TK since Sub-Zero has done that against AOE attacks before. I think if he sees Shadow Moon raise his hand and now Scorpion is held up by an invisible force, he would try to freeze Shadow Moon's hand off, and if he sees everything else begin to float, he would emit a freezing blast all over the area.

up to Hundreds of Meters with cryomancy.

His Cryomancy can freeze anyone instantly, especially his AOE.


Shadow Moon's TK couldn't crush them; that's an AP thing, but Shadow Moon's TK can rip Sub-Zero and Scorpion apart. Does Shadow Moon immediately start with using his TK to rip the ninjas apart?

 

[Shadowslash125]

Scorpion and Sub-Zero are humans. The profile links aren't accurate to the keys they are in. It's the MK11 (Present) versions with Kuai Lang in his Grandmaster Key.

I meant to say that it's not everyday the riders stumble across two ninjas that can shoot ice and fire, teleport and all those good stuff. They'd think its some Kaijin abilities (since that kinda makes sense to them in their series) and be a tad bit more aggressive than usual.

Shadow Moon's TK couldn't crush them; that's an AP thing, but Shadow Moon's TK can rip Sub-Zero and Scorpion apart. Does Shadow Moon immediately start with using his TK to rip the ninjas apart?

I remember linking this in my post and saying this is what Shadow Moon usually starts off with, especially if he's up against more than one foe unless he's up against Black Sun (who he was personally fighting).

Shadow Moon's Telekinesis, which is usually his first move, casually knocking away three of his kaijin brethren in different positions immediately after transforming. Those three have LS (or at least downscale slightly) from this feat. This is just him being casual because he can amp his TK as well.

Due to the huge difference in LS, suffice to say if Scorpion and/or Sub-Zero is caught in that specific TK attack, they'll be blown and ripped apart. Even Black Sun had problems facing his TK and he has just about the same LS as him.

Okay, I say that because Scorpion could teleport out of the TK restrain, like he did against Johnny Cage when Johnny Cage was restraining him. Sub-Zero has only briefly "fought" Kenshi, and I put quotes on that because their fight was just Kenshi throwing him out a helicopter. Sub-Zero could also put up a Forcefield against SM's TK since Sub-Zero has done that against AOE attacks before. I think if he sees Shadow Moon raise his hand and now Scorpion is held up by an invisible force, he would try to freeze Shadow Moon's hand off, and if he sees everything else begin to float, he would emit a freezing blast all over the area.

His Cryomancy can freeze anyone instantly, especially his AOE.

Fair enough for Scorpion TP, but he has to be TP before SM rips him apart in single-target TK. In the AOE one, he's not going to make it especially if he's coming out mid-TP. Even then, the TK speed is fast enough that no one in the series has ever dodged it and the only reason why he got defeated by Black Sun (besides story and personal reasons) is because he could literally grab the TK and pull him right at Black Sun's grill to get hit by his attack. Also forgot to clarify that Black Sun is the only one who could dodge TK (Not Shadow Moon's one, but from the Creation King). This does not seem much, but in-universe, the TK cannot be seen by anyone (except the viewers). Kamen Rider Black Sun's (And in extension, Kamen Rider Shadow Moon's) senses and perception are strong enough to sense it incoming.

Oh, I also forgot to clarify that he doesn't make everything float like that; he either does the Darth Vader choke, immobilize and throw or the room-wide blowing away attack.

Trying to freeze Shadow Moon's hand mid-TK isn't a good idea, especially if he's doing his AOE attack. All his ranged attacks among other things would be blown back and he won't really get its effects (Same with Sub-Zero since he resists his ice powers). In fact, it might actually be redirected back to Scorpion since he doesn't resist it (or he does and the profile just needs a crt). Shadow Moon having NPI would further solidify the redirection since it was a very prominent argument during the first rider duo match. Also he has two hands for TK shenanigans.

Can I see a scan for this so I know exactly how they did it?

Ok firstly we have to go fifty years back (Black Sun takes place in 2022 but it revisits the time from 1972). None of the two have awakened their rider forms yet, so I'll specify when they do.

Spoiler: Skill Stuff, also the scans are graphic so viewer discretion is advised and is nsfw

1972

• Even back then, Bilgenia was the personal guard of the Creation King, and he slaughtered the prime minister's guards in protest of handing the King over to the prime minister who had overseen the creation of Kaijins.
• Shadow Moon is as skilled as Baraom of the Grand Priests, though he was defeated by him. With that, he was captured in an underground prison for 50 years.
• Black Sun got destroyed by the Creation King, leading to his leg being crippled.

Back in 2022

• Black Sun is still alive and kicking despite his crippled leg, being able to teach Aoi how to fight. Keep this in mind.
• Black Sun and Shadow Moon clashed. While Shadow Moon was defeated by the ultimately more skilled former, keep in mind that he's comparable in skill to him even when he got locked up for 50 years without any action, and that he's superior to him in everything else.
• Bilgenia and Shadow Moon are comparable in skill, and then Black Sun awakened his Rider form to utterly destroy Bilgenia and sever his arm. This is also when Aoi becomes a Kaijin.
• Meanwhile, Shadow Moon was training a bunch of Kaijin teenagers to storm into Golgom and kill the Creation King.
• Shadow Moon outmanoeuvred and defeated a bunch of SATs (Japan equivalent of SWATs) even when he was surrounded, cuffed and at gunpoint
• Black Sun nonlethally dealt with some of the government guards and a few Kaijin guards without transforming.
• Aoi does the same feats Shadow Moon did here.
• Now, KR Black Sun faced Darom who had inferior power to him, but the latter kept up in skill by displacing him with his inferior TK here and there. Ultimately the battle ends in a 'stalemate'.
• Shadow Moon faced Bishum who should be comparable. This is when he first awakened the TK to defeat her. Bishum has done the same feat as Bilgenia later on. Do note at this time Shadow Moon has not become a rider yet and is still using his Kaijin form.
• KR Black Sun then faces off and kills the Creation King, but has his leg chopped in the process.
• One story beat later and Shadow Moon has awakened his rider form.
• Aoi now outskills Bilgenia, though it can be argued that he got caught by surprise.
• KR Black Sun's crippled leg is now healed completely. And so is his chopped leg. It happened on the same leg but both conditions got healed.
• Bilgenia solos a whole other SAT force with just one arm before succumbing to his injuries.
• KR Black Sun and KR Shadow Moon fight again. The winner was the same but the match was very very close. Keep in mind that this is a personal fight between the two of them, so he doesn't start off with TK here. The ninja duo will not be getting the same treatment as Black Sun here.

The chain should be:
Kaijin Teens < SAT < Bilgenia = Grand Priests ?< Aoi < Shadow Moon <= Black Sun < Creation King

Also tbh this looking like a reasonably intense yet enjoyable matchup where both sides of the match are pretty cool and chill. If only the first Rider match in the tourney was like that.

 

[Catbowtie]

I remember linking this in my post and saying this is what Shadow Moon usually starts off with, especially if he's up against more than one foe unless he's up against Black Sun (who he was personally fighting).

Gotcha.

I remember linking this in my post and saying this is what Shadow Moon usually starts off with, especially if he's up against more than one foe unless he's up against Black Sun (who he was personally fighting).

Gotcha.

Fair enough for Scorpion TP, but he has to be TP before SM rips him apart in single-target TK. In the AOE one, he's not going to make it especially if he's coming out mid-TP. Even then, the TK speed is fast enough that no one in the series has ever dodged it and the only reason why he got defeated by Black Sun (besides story and personal reasons) is because he could literally grab the TK and pull him right at Black Sun's grill to get hit by his attack. Also forgot to clarify that Black Sun is the only one who could dodge TK (Not Shadow Moon's one, but from the Creation King). This does not seem much, but in-universe, the TK cannot be seen by anyone (except the viewers). Kamen Rider Black Sun's (And in extension, Kamen Rider Shadow Moon's) senses and perception are strong enough to sense it incoming.


Oh, I also forgot to clarify that he doesn't make everything float like that; he either does the Darth Vader choke, immobilize and throw or the room-wide blowing away attack

Gotcha. How fast does SM's TK LS ripping apart happen?

Sub-Zero and Scorpion would incorrectly assume that SM can control wind, since you've said they can't actually see his TK. They would try to aim dodge his hands, say, Scorpion teleporting behind SM when he raises his hand, so SM would have to turn all the way around to TK him. The TK isn't instant since BS' and SM's TK seem to travel a distance (SM gestures, then the TK grabs the cultist guy) I think Sub-Zero and Scorpion could pull off aim dodging TK since they would essentially be reacting to SM raising his hand, and the ninjas have experience with aim dodging projectiles that move faster than themselves (see any Sub-Zero and Scorpion fight, especially with the likes of Raiden since his lightning moves faster and requires aim dodging)


Scorpion is going to be right in Shadow Moon's Standard Melee Range because of his Teleportation. Is Shadow Moon going to be doing his TK at point blank range? I think Scorpion would skilled enough to at least deflect SM's hands away from him so he can't TK him for a while. Not that SM could never, but I think Scorpion could initially prevent SM from TK'ing at Standard Melee Range given that when SM literally raises his hand at Scorpion, he's going to think that he's launching a projectile at him and push his hand away from him (or aim dodge).

Trying to freeze Shadow Moon's hand mid-TK isn't a good idea, especially if he's doing his AOE attack. All his ranged attacks among other things would be blown back and he won't really get its effects (Same with Sub-Zero since he resists his ice powers). In fact, it might actually be redirected back to Scorpion since he doesn't resist it (or he does and the profile just needs a crt). Shadow Moon having NPI would further solidify the redirection since it was a very prominent argument during the first rider duo match. Also he has two hands for TK shenanigans.

I'm going to be real with you Shadowslash, the entire Mortal Kombat verse needs a CRT. Scorpion needs Supernatural Willpower, Skilled Marksman, and a lot of other things. Sub-Zero needs "All previous abilities in his Human Key enhanced" because his medallion strengthens his Ice Powers, and he needs Absolute Zero for his Ice Manipulation. Anyways, Sub-Zero could opt to do the ice beam version instead of the Ice Ball, but that only would be after the fact.

I looked at the Kamen Rider's AP and...

0.0126779219 tons (Small Building level)

Scorpion Just Teleports: 0.09 Tons of TNT, Small Building level

Do...do the Kamen Riders genuinely get one-shot here? How big is this gap? Lemme see...

Kamen Riders: 52.7184 megajoules
Ninjas: 376.56 megajoules

52.7184 x 7 = 369.0288

THAT IS OVER A 7X AP GAP. THEY'RE GENUINELY GETTING TWO-SHOTTED. WHAT THE HELL?

 

[Shadowslash125]

How fast does SM's TK LS ripping apart happen?

I think even grabbing any ninja with the TK and swinging it would probably be enough to rip apart things. God have mercy if it's the AOE variant...

Sub-Zero and Scorpion would incorrectly assume that SM can control wind, since you've said they can't actually see his TK. They would try to aim dodge his hands, say, Scorpion teleporting behind SM when he raises his hand, so SM would have to turn all the way around to TK him. The TK isn't instant since BS' and SM's TK seem to travel a distance (SM gestures, then the TK grabs the cultist guy) I think Sub-Zero and Scorpion could pull off aim dodging TK since they would essentially be reacting to SM raising his hand, and the ninjas have experience with aim dodging projectiles that move faster than themselves (see any Sub-Zero and Scorpion fight, especially with the likes of Raiden since his lightning moves faster and requires aim dodging)

Hold up, Black Sun's still in the match. He will be covering for Shadow Moon in case things get dicey. If Shadow Moon is about to get the 'teleports behind you; nothing personal kid' treatment, Black Sun can still defend him by throwing him back or blocking his attack with his sword. Even then, Shadow Moon can still dodge or just aim his hand back without much trouble. Aim dodging the single target TK is fair enough, but the AOE variant is practically impossible to dodge, especially since it covers a very large range and would blow them apart immediately if they're hit.

Scorpion is going to be right in Shadow Moon's Standard Melee Range because of his Teleportation. Is Shadow Moon going to be doing his TK at point blank range? I think Scorpion would skilled enough to at least deflect SM's hands away from him so he can't TK him for a while. Not that SM could never, but I think Scorpion could initially prevent SM from TK'ing at Standard Melee Range given that when SM literally raises his hand at Scorpion, he's going to think that he's launching a projectile at him and push his hand away from him (or aim dodge).

Shadow Moon's TK is the most dangerous at point-blank range as he only needs to turn his wrist rather than use his whole arm. His senses and perception would notify him of that attack and either counterattack immediately with another TK hand, dodge or use his sword. Black Sun is also there to help him out as well, and he's skilled enough to do something about it.

I'm going to be real with you Shadowslash, the entire Mortal Kombat verse needs a CRT. Scorpion needs Supernatural Willpower, Skilled Marksman, and a lot of other things. Sub-Zero needs "All previous abilities in his Human Key enhanced" because his medallion strengthens his Ice Powers, and he needs Absolute Zero for his Ice Manipulation. Anyways, Sub-Zero could opt to do the ice beam version instead of the Ice Ball, but that only would be after the fact.

I kinda figured something was up when Ermac of all people at Class 5 for his LS.

Do...do the Kamen Riders genuinely get one-shot here? How big is this gap? Lemme see...

Kamen Riders: 52.7184 megajoules
Ninjas: 376.56 megajoules

52.7184 x 7 = 369.0288

THAT IS OVER A 7X AP GAP. THEY'RE GENUINELY GETTING TWO-SHOTTED. WHAT THE HELL?

I'm kinda surprised you just found out about it now, especially when I never really tried to hide it from people in the first place. I remember even mentioning it right at the start of the matchup.

While they lack experience, they would at least be able to last a bit in CQC despite the huge disadvantage in AP/Dura with their usual senses and perception.

Their damage reduction can soften up the blows and their stat amps and energy manipulation can amp the riders' attacks (despite being unquantifiable, which is at least better than having none). They still have regeneration to live a while longer in a fight and their stamina allows them to withstand injuries that can kill the average human like being mutilated or dismembered or losing a lot of blood. Even in the final battle against each other, the riders still kept fighting like it was nothing.
EDIT: I forgor that Shadow Moon has healing food that he can share with Black Sun to heal away all the injuries they have. All they need to do is to just bite on it.


But yea this is the huge disadvantage the riders have against EVERYONE in this whole tournament. They are the weakest AP-wise and almost didn't make it to the list had it not for the Original OP reducing the minimum AP limit.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bumpity Bump

 

[Catbowtie]

I think even grabbing any ninja with the TK and swinging it would probably be enough to rip apart things. God have mercy if it's the AOE variant...

That's only if they're getting pulled apart. If they're just getting pulled or tossed around that wouldn't rip their arm off, but if BS decides to use his other hand to pull any one of the ninjas from the other side, then they'll get ripped apart. I think @Chariot190 would be the best guy to ask for these types of things since the best I know about LS is that it can rip people apart and restrain people (like preventing them from moving)

Hold up, Black Sun's still in the match. He will be covering for Shadow Moon in case things get dicey. If Shadow Moon is about to get the 'teleports behind you; nothing personal kid' treatment, Black Sun can still defend him by throwing him back or blocking his attack with his sword. Even then, Shadow Moon can still dodge or just aim his hand back without much trouble. Aim dodging the single target TK is fair enough, but the AOE variant is practically impossible to dodge, especially since it covers a very large range and would blow them apart immediately if they're hit.

Fair enough, but Black Sun would still have Sub-Zero to worry about. I was just saying that I believe Scorpion can delay Shadow Moon TK'ing him since Scorpion would initially outmaneuver Shadow Moon due to the skill difference, but in a sustained fight Shadow Moon would be able to get off TK because Scorpion isn't grievously out-skilling Shadow Moon to the point where he can't perform a maneuver as mundane as raising his hand. If Scorpion survives the first Shadow Moon TK, like Shadow Moon deciding to throw Scorpion away rather than rip him apart, then I can see Scorpion teleporting out of TK the next time he's restrained, especially if he feels like he's being ripped apart. When you say "blow them apart" do you mean like kill them or blow the ninjas away from each other? If it's the former, that's an AP thing.

Shadow Moon's TK is the most dangerous at point-blank range as he only needs to turn his wrist rather than use his whole arm. His senses and perception would notify him of that attack and either counterattack immediately with another TK hand, dodge or use his sword. Black Sun is also there to help him out as well, and he's skilled enough to do something about it.

Fair enough on the point blank range thing, but Scorpion could use his Duplication and/or Illusion Creation. Shadow Moon could get tricked since Scorpion's illusions are made out of his fire, triggering his Enhanced Senses, but his Extrasensory Perception could possibly pick up the real Scorpion(I say "possibly," because it's vague on what it means by "captures the source of the attack." What I mean to say is, at what point is a movement considered an "attack"? For example, Scorpion making an Illusion. Would Shadow Moon's Extrasensory Perception trigger right when Scorpion moves? Because it would center the source Scorpion but he would still be semi-covered by his illusion. Or would it do something else? So eh, it's really a matter of a coin flip in that scenario. Black Sun has Sub-Zero to deal with. They would be engaged in close-quarters-combat, and if Black Sun does get breathing room to help Shadow Moon, I think that Sub-Zero would be able to get an opening to attack. Black Sun's Enhanced Senses would trigger that Sub-Zero is cold, and his Extrasensory Perception would trigger that an attack is about to come, but Black Sun wouldn't know what attack Sub-Zero is about to do, just that it's an attack. Considering that at any moment, Sub-Zero is liable to freeze Black Sun instantly and leave him frozen (Not that Sub-Zero will kill Black Sun, Sub-Zero can freeze people and incapacitate them), Black Sun turning his attention towards Scorpion would give Sub-Zero the opportunity to incapacitate him given that Sub-Zero knows how dangerous Black Sun is.

I kinda figured something was up when Ermac of all people at Class 5 for his LS.

I know, right?

I'm kinda surprised you just found out about it now, especially when I never really tried to hide it from people in the first place. I remember even mentioning it right at the start of the matchup.

I didn't think the AP gap was that big.

Their damage reduction can soften up the blows and their stat amps and energy manipulation can amp the riders' attacks (despite being unquantifiable, which is at least better than having none). They still have regeneration to live a while longer in a fight and their stamina allows them to withstand injuries that can kill the average human like being mutilated or dismembered or losing a lot of blood. Even in the final battle against each other, the riders still kept fighting like it was nothing.

They have Mid-Low Regeneration.

The ability to heal wounds that would normally leave large scars, such as severe burns or deep injuries. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating damage that would normally leave large dents and openings.

Scorpion and Sub-Zero can genuinely punch holes through them and their regeneration couldn't cover that. Stamina will help, but it has it's limit. Though, I think being knocked out will help circumvent that? (I'm not sure)

EDIT: I forgor that Shadow Moon has healing food that he can share with Black Sun to heal away all the injuries they have. All they need to do is to just bite on it.

Is Shadow Moon and Black Sun going to be within touching distance of each other? Or is Shadow Moon going to like...throw it? Scorpion and Sub-Zero wouldn't give Shadow Moon and Black Sun (respectively) the chance, not because they would know the food could heal, but because they would be engaged in close-quarters-combat with them, so eating while fighting would be pretty hard.


Black Sun's & Shadow Moon's Senses would definitely help them in fighting Scorpion & Sub-Zero. Given they're on Stryker levels of skill, they should be able to somewhat stand up to Scorpion and Sub-Zero without being bulldozed. They'll still have a skill disadvantage, but their senses help.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Black Sun would still have Sub-Zero to worry about

Black Sun has Sub-Zero to deal with. They would be engaged in close-quarters-combat, and if Black Sun does get breathing room to help Shadow Moon, I think that Sub-Zero would be able to get an opening to attack. Black Sun's Enhanced Senses would trigger that Sub-Zero is cold, and his Extrasensory Perception would trigger that an attack is about to come, but Black Sun wouldn't know what attack Sub-Zero is about to do, just that it's an attack. Considering that at any moment, Sub-Zero is liable to freeze Black Sun instantly and leave him frozen (Not that Sub-Zero will kill Black Sun, Sub-Zero can freeze people and incapacitate them), Black Sun turning his attention towards Scorpion would give Sub-Zero the opportunity to incapacitate him given that Sub-Zero knows how dangerous Black Sun is.

The way I see it, there are two main scenarios that can happen. It's either the riders catch them off guard first since they'll be able to sense where they are first and then just run to them or Scorpion TPs to them before the riders can get to the ninjas, leaving Sub Zero to come a bit late into the battle. In any case, Scorpion would go for TP first, leaving Sub Zero in the back. As I've said here, Shadow Moon's usual first move (especially in matches against more than one foe) would be to use his TK to blow them away. Not saying there's no chance Sub Zero and Black Sun will be locked in CQC at any point, due to Scorpion appearing into the riders' backs way before anything else can go down, Black Sun would probably be there to help Shadow Moon out before he goes on to CQCing with Sub-Zero. In such a situation, Sub Zero would first have to deal with Shadow Moon's TK should Black Sun prevent Scorpion's TP attack from landing.
TL.DR: Sub Zero would be in front of SM and BS while Scorpion will TP to their backline. Either SM TKs him from the back or Black Sun grapples and rips some part of his body while tossing him. Keep in mind the huge LS diff, since the ripping would take only a little amount of time.

While sure Black Sun won't know what exact attack is coming, his Extrasensory Perception should at least be able to warn him if Sub Zero is going to pull anything that would be particularly dangerous for him. The coldness in his hands before he goes for freezing moves should still be good enough for Black Sun' senses to at least pick up, allowing him to stay in the fight longer. Not saying he can't be frozen or get caught to be frozen, but it won't be easy unless Sub Zero goes for the particularly cheap moves.

If Scorpion survives the first Shadow Moon TK, like Shadow Moon deciding to throw Scorpion away rather than rip him apart, then I can see Scorpion teleporting out of TK the next time he's restrained, especially if he feels like he's being ripped apart. When you say "blow them apart" do you mean like kill them or blow the ninjas away from each other? If it's the former, that's an AP thing.

Most definitely the latter, but what I meant to say is that the TK due to incorporating the LS into it should be able to rip them apart by just blowing them away, kind of like some shockwave thing (It's way easier to imagine it in my head rather than word it here, so bare with me). I say this because even in their kaijin form, they only take a few seconds to showcase their LS by ripping some kaijin's head clean off or ripping another apart from their waist with just the mouth. And those kaijins' LS are only marginally weaker than theirs. Take into factor their rider forms now and Black Sun and Shadow Moon should upscale from their previous LS to the point that Black Sun could rip off the Creation King's heart (who should be stronger than both of them in every stat to that matter). Against Class K, they should be able to weaponize the advantage since CQC-wise they love to go grapple and proceed it to rip and tear. I presume getting blown away by the TK should also rip them apart by virtue of their difference alone, otherwise CQC can also be particularly damaging.

Fair enough on the point blank range thing, but Scorpion could use his Duplication and/or Illusion Creation. Shadow Moon could get tricked since Scorpion's illusions are made out of his fire, triggering his Enhanced Senses, but his Extrasensory Perception could possibly pick up the real Scorpion(I say "possibly," because it's vague on what it means by "captures the source of the attack." What I mean to say is, at what point is a movement considered an "attack"? For example, Scorpion making an Illusion. Would Shadow Moon's Extrasensory Perception trigger right when Scorpion moves? Because it would center the source Scorpion but he would still be semi-covered by his illusion. Or would it do something else? So eh, it's really a matter of a coin flip in that scenario.

One problem right off the bat. I don't see Duplication in his P&A, only Illusion Creation. Yes, I know that it would derive from that.
I was blind, found it.
Seeing the scan, I would say it won't be hard enough to figure out the illusions, seeing that they just freeze in place while Scorpion actually goes for some other attack. But if we have to go with the senses and perception part, then it should be paired. His senses will get the source of the attack, even if the attack ends up as a feint or something of the sort. What Extrasensory Perception does is identify approaching dangers, meaning that it'd pop off to warn Shadow Moon of any possible feint into another attack shticks. Scorpion's immaterial clones probably won't trigger the good stuff and can allow Shadow Moon to just detect the real Scorpion. The tangible versions should prove a bit harder, but what it essentially comes down to is just dodging and fighting more than one person. An AOE TK should disperse the clones and if the real Scorpion is in there, he's getting blown away.

Scorpion and Sub-Zero can genuinely punch holes through them and their regeneration couldn't cover that. Stamina will help, but it has it's limit. Though, I think being knocked out will help circumvent that? (I'm not sure)

Fair enough for the regen, but for the knockout and stamina bit, these two would be bitches to knock out (unless it's le freeze) and their stamina limit is pretty high in general, so it'd take a while before they fall.

Is Shadow Moon and Black Sun going to be within touching distance of each other? Or is Shadow Moon going to like...throw it? Scorpion and Sub-Zero wouldn't give Shadow Moon and Black Sun (respectively) the chance, not because they would know the food could heal, but because they would be engaged in close-quarters-combat with them, so eating while fighting would be pretty hard.

Depends. If they're close enough, they'll just pass hands and chow while fighting. If they're far away, it's a throw. Throwing would be more risky seeing that the effort can be wasted if the Heat Heaven gets destroyed by the ninjas, so the two might occasionally return to touching distance to help each other out in combat and to occasionally have some Heat Heaven. Just a bite is enough to heal them back up completely, but it does take more than a few seconds.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Shadowslash125]

Pls don't tell me this is dying again bump

 

[Catbowtie]

No I'm just typing it all out

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

The summary of this fight btw?

 

[Shadowslash125]

The summary of this fight btw?

Points talked about in this tourney:

• Since combatants appear out of sight, The Ninjas can start with stealth and carefully plan what to do against the riders, but with their superior sense and perception, the riders will be able to find them long before the former can
• Sub Zero and Scorpion will go for incap first while Black Sun and Shadow Moon would go for killing
• Ninjas' first moves are Scorpion teleporting behind them to attack while Sub Zero spam projectiles and ice attacks while closing distance. Shadow Moon will initiate TK and Black Sun will cover Nobuhiko's flank after sensing Scorpion teleporting to them.
• Eventually, match will be decided by CQC
• Riders are outskilled by the ninjas but are skilled enough to hold their own.
• Mortal Kombat Skill Chain: Sore Losers < Humans = Normal Lin Kuei = I Don't Know What To Name Them = Raiden Holding Back = Shang Tsung = Mileena = Cyber Sektor ?< Cyber Cyrax < Nightwolf Holding Back ?< Ermac < Scorpion < Base Tundra ? Noob < Cyber Tundra < Kabal < Stryker < Nightwolf =< Sindel (Nightwolf initially outmanoeuvred Sindel, but was still defeated by her) < Shao Kahn < Liu Kang =< Raiden, at which the Riders are at Stryker level.
• Young Scorpion has defeated Raiden in the past, so he outskills him (Gap is bigger with Grandmaster Key)
• Ninjas have 7x AP/Dura advantage over Riders but are at an overwhelming disadvantage in LS (Class K to Class M)
• Illusion Creation and Duplication (moreso Duplication) may bring problems to Shadow Moon's TK but AOE TK can circumvent it; senses and perception should edge out enough to deal with this
• Shadow Moon's TK is the most dangerous at point blank due to travelling less distance to affect opponents; is invisible and hasn't been dodged by anyone in the series (barring Black Sun)
• LS advantage allows Riders to rip apart the ninjas when they get the opportunity
• Mid-Low Regen won't work but the Riders' stamina are bitches to deal with
• Mortal Kombat stuff needs to be updated

If I missed anything let me know.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Points talked about in this tourney:

• Since combatants appear out of sight, The Ninjas can start with stealth and carefully plan what to do against the riders, but with their superior sense and perception, the riders will be able to find them long before the former can
• Sub Zero and Scorpion will go for incap first while Black Sun and Shadow Moon would go for killing
• Ninjas' first moves are Scorpion teleporting behind them to attack while Sub Zero spam projectiles and ice attacks while closing distance. Shadow Moon will initiate TK and Black Sun will cover Nobuhiko's flank after sensing Scorpion teleporting to them.
• Eventually, match will be decided by CQC
• Riders are outskilled by the ninjas but are skilled enough to hold their own.
• Mortal Kombat Skill Chain: Sore Losers < Humans = Normal Lin Kuei = I Don't Know What To Name Them = Raiden Holding Back = Shang Tsung = Mileena = Cyber Sektor ?< Cyber Cyrax < Nightwolf Holding Back ?< Ermac < Scorpion < Base Tundra ? Noob < Cyber Tundra < Kabal < Stryker < Nightwolf =< Sindel (Nightwolf initially outmanoeuvred Sindel, but was still defeated by her) < Shao Kahn < Liu Kang =< Raiden, at which the Riders are at Stryker level.
• Young Scorpion has defeated Raiden in the past, so he outskills him (Gap is bigger with Grandmaster Key)
• Ninjas have 7x AP/Dura advantage over Riders but are at an overwhelming disadvantage in LS (Class K to Class M)
• Illusion Creation and Duplication (moreso Duplication) may bring problems to Shadow Moon's TK but AOE TK can circumvent it; senses and perception should edge out enough to deal with this
• Shadow Moon's TK is the most dangerous at point blank due to travelling less distance to affect opponents; is invisible and hasn't been dodged by anyone in the series (barring Black Sun)
• LS advantage allows Riders to rip apart the ninjas when they get the opportunity
• Mid-Low Regen won't work but the Riders' stamina are bitches to deal with
• Mortal Kombat stuff needs to be updated

If I missed anything let me know.

Honestly I dunno how things can go with this match even after I did reread the whole thread, but frankly I believe Scorpion and SZ might be able to win but then again BS and SM have their own bs which make this fight harder to deal with

I'll prolly need to catch up some of MK knowledge, btw remind me which version this two being used?

 

[Shadowslash125]

which version this two being used

Both Grandmaster Keys.

 

[Shadowslash125]

BIG FAT BUMP

 

[Catbowtie]

Sorry I haven't been able to keep up. Personal stuff. Nothing bad though.

I'll prolly need to catch up some of MK knowledge, btw remind me which version this two being used?

Scorpion's old guy/ human key and Sub-Zero's Grandmaster Key

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bumpity bump. Never thought it'd take this long.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Soooo this is dead forever I assume

 

[Catbowtie]

I actually don't think there's much to say here. Both duos have abilities that allow each other to win. I think that Ninjas win more times than Kamen Riders.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Well I guess it's voting phase time then I guess.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Verse-wide CRT for Kamen Riders have passed. Black Sun and Shad should now have these abilities:

Kamen Rider Physiology

Kamen Rider Physiology is the ability to transform into a Kamen Rider. This is primarily done through the use of a transformation belt or "driver", that grants the user the powers of a Kamen Rider. There are usually various requirements for one to be able to don a driver, such as one having to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Catbowtie]

If only I had the guts to do a Mortal Kombat revision

 

[Shadowslash125]

Verse-wide CRT for Kamen Riders have passed. Black Sun and Shad should now have these abilities:

Kamen Rider Physiology

Kamen Rider Physiology is the ability to transform into a Kamen Rider. This is primarily done through the use of a transformation belt or "driver", that grants the user the powers of a Kamen Rider. There are usually various requirements for one to be able to don a driver, such as one having to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

For the moment, the only significant change would be that both Black Sun and Shadowmoon are now officially acrobatic and their NPI is stronger.
How will it change the scenario?

 

[Catbowtie]

The only thing I could think it would change is how they interact with Sub-Zero's Ice Balls. Acrobatics I don't think would change anything either unless they incorporate it into close-quarters-combat.

 

[Shadowslash125]

unless they incorporate it into close-quarters-combat

Oh god, their specialty is finally going to shine.

Ok first thing's first, they should have the same level of acrobatics, incorporating flips and whatnot into their fighting style. You don't get to be called Kamen Rider in the first place if you're not acrobats. They will be particularly terrifying in like a small hallway, but I assume Shang Tsung's palace is a bit wider.

 

[Catbowtie]

This is the entire location

 

[Shadowslash125]

Didn't see the island part behind Shang Tsung. My bad.
Even without small hallways, the riders should be able to manage with their acrobatics, making it easier to dodge incoming projectiles and all in all be more evasive.