Combatants | Votes |
|---|---|
| Sub-Zero & Scorpion | |
| Pyro & Engineer | |
| Spinning Fish |
You should go to their message walls on the forum or such for that; Non-staff members @-ing users does not alert those users.
It says "reduced" so they'll still have a higher reaction and combat speed than their...speed? Weird.
Bueno
How quantifiable is that? The duo is 121.21 megajoules over Pyro and Engineer, so...three shot for people comparable to them? I don't know. The turrets are wide out in the open, something Sub-Zero can easily freeze using Iceball, and if Engineer tries to pull the "Sitting out in the open" stuff, he's just going to get frozen by Sub-Zero as well. It also looks like they have to get within a certain, really small range, to actually be point at and shot at.
Sub-Zero freezes the turrets before Scorpion teleports in to fight them.
Iirc Pyro and Engineer are 359.824 Megajoules so their not that much weaker. In meet the Engineer he put his Sentrys out in open to fend off all the on coming Blu's. In a more compact situation like this Engineer will likely put his Sentrys out of immediate site to take Sub and Scorp by surprise. They also have a sizeable range of 1100 hammer units so it shouldn't be to much of a problem since their in an enclosed location.
Engi can probably set up serval Sentries by the time they reach them and they can lock on to a target in less than a second. So unless Sub can freeze all Sentries at once he gonna get filled with lead and killed within a few seconds. Also, Engi can put a forcefield around his Sentries with the Wrangler to block Subs ice attacks.
WHAT THE **** IS A KILOMETERRRRRRRRRR????!)Sub-Zero can freeze all the sentries at once.
They're still getting frozen...? Can I see a video of what the Wrangler looks like in action? Will Engineer put the forcefield without being prompted to? (Meaning, will Engineer just put the Wrangler on the turrets while he is making them?)
Being caught off guard by Sub-Zero's Stealth Mastery. Otherwise, nothing is stopping Pyro from air-blasting it away, but Sub-Zero's main win condition is beating up the duo or freezing them so they can't fight (He can freeze them with his hands, no projectile required)
It's been accepted, it's even on the verse page, and profiles. The tally just wasn't updated in the thread.
It's gonna be much harder to catch them off guard when Sentries make a distinct beeping sound whenever it detects an enemy.
This is too vague. How many sentries is Engineer putting down? Sub-Zero will just send a freezing AOE attack that will freeze all of the sentries, and the range of the attack is big.
Precision isn't a huge issue, because it would only matter if Sub-Zero is trying to target one single person. The purpose of the AOE is to get as much turrets as possible.
From what I've seen in the video, The Wrangler forcefield can only go on one turret, so all the other turrets are still getting frozen. It looks like Engineer himself will get caught in the ice blast because he has to stand near the turret to use it. Sub-Zero and Scorpion knows what guns are, and I'm sure the visualization if Engineer pointing something at them, then the turret turning to where Engineer is pointing, will be more than enough to tell them that they need to attack Engineer. Scorpion teleports to Engineer's location, behind Engineer. Does he have the reaction time to react to that? Before getting punched and grappled by Class K Lifting Strength? Especially when Scorpion's teleportation can be done at a moments notice
"When they spot someone," respectfully, that is literally what Stealth Mastery is for: Not getting spotted. Your word choices seem to imply that sentries are just a second pair of eyes, and don't actually have special abilities that would help them detect Sub-Zero and Scorpion. I don't really see anyone saying that turrets have a detection range or some type of sensor, so I'd appreciate it if someone can elaborate on this.
Panic Attack deals 20% less damage.
+50% bullets per shot.
+50% faster weapon deploy time.
Fires a fixed shot pattern.
-20% damage penalty.
Successive shots become less accurate.
But also says,
That is in his "With additional weapons" Key.
The only limit being "one shotting people comparable to them" so they just one to two shot Sub-Zero and Scorpion because they have comparable AP. Like...their AP is 359.824 Megajoules, how are they one to two shotting Sub-Zero and Scorpion?
Critical Hits have a 2% chance to hit, and they're very unlikely to hit if they do come up because Scorpion and Sub-Zero are out-skilling Pyro and Engineer. Like I said before, Pyro or Engineer swinging their weapons in a weird way will only get their attacks dodged, and their guns would just be destroyed by Scorpion and Sub-Zero, if they even can get their guns out.
(Sub-Zero and Scorpion)
(Speed Equalization rules)
"reduced by the same multiplier"
I think this is wrong. The speed equalization states that their combat speed is equalized, while their reaction is merely reduced. Reducing their reaction speed to the merc's combat speed would just make it a hard-fought battle at best and a Stomp at worst. We can ask someone in Questions and Answers though
Yeah, when I noticed the sheer difference in speed types the Mercs had, I knew this was going to fall under some funky logic
I feel like this is intentional word usage, instead of an arbitrary word they use to mean "reducing"
In this sentence, they say "reduced." If whoever wrote it meant that the other speeds would get equalized, they would've just said "equalized" (or some synonym of it) again, but instead they say "reduced." If they wanted to say everything gets reduced to the same speed, then they would've just said something like "All of the speeds of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to all of the speeds of the slower character" or some equivalent. I don't think that this is a slip-up, because Speed Equalization is constantly used and referenced. I'm pretty sure someone would bring this up.
It seems to be if someone has a reaction advantage over a person, they can still hold it even despite the Speed Equalization. I'm not trying to commit some type of logical fallacy here, so correct me if I made an error. Also, I saw somewhere else where a person can actually calculate the multiplier the other speeds get reduced by. Take that with a grain of salt as a personal anecdote.
Under your premise, I think this is pretty wonky too.
I'm not arguing that, it's just which one of the speeds do they go to, since Engi/Pyro have 3 different speed types, each with drastically different results.
It's not a slip up, since various characters have drastically different stats between different speeds EX The Mercs, however the wording 'reduced by the same multiplier' means that everything about the character is reduced by a same rate.
That's because Spawn has a noticeable gap between his actual speed and his reaction speed from what I'm seeing, with his second key having Supersonic travel, Speed of Light teleportation, and FTL reactions with no mention of his combat speed. However I'm not familiar with the character so I can't say much since so for all I know I might be wrong on that.
Uhhhh
There's no combat speed. Huh? I think we use the Athletic Human movement for their combat speed?
Right. Gon doesn't have a differentiator between his Subsonic combat speed and his reaction speed, so they both are technically equalized. Sub-Zero's and Scorprion's "likely" Massively Hypersonic+ are being used here (At least I would say)
I don't know either.
I don't see how the version of Scoprion/Sub-Zero's speeds would have an effect here, since it would either be the 'likely' Massively Hypersonic+ reactions and combat speed or instead Hypersonic+ reaction and combat speed. Unless they have feats that put them on separate levels on the respective tiers, they'd be equalized to the same amount due to a lack of differentiator since both reaction and combat are classified as the same thing for them
I'm honestly unsure of what to do with this, but I'm leaning towards not using the 'likely' speed so as to have this battle be a bit fairer. Dunno if this will affect whether this match can be added to the profiles or not, though.
From my point of view, there are a few possibilities
Both of these options would mean that one side has to lock in, which would make for a pretty good debate.
This one is definitely the most fair option, but this match might not be added to the profiles.
Honestly from the first two I see them as absolute washes for different reasons, Supersonic speed Ninjas are going to speedblitz and Athletic Human Ninjas are liable from getting weapon and reaction blitzed. While I can see arguments for both sides being possible, the speed itself poses a massive problem. I'd recommend getting a moderator since this is a very unorthodox scenario and this probably should set some standard for characters like the Mercs who just have drastically different stats with little to no possible way of fairly equalizing their speed with rules as written
Basically:
What's the difference between the Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and Massively Hypersonic+ reaction speed?
No, I know what the difference between reaction speed and combat speed is lol
I don't think so? Let me make sure I'm on the same page as you. You're saying that their "likely Massively Hypersonic+" reactions and combat speed would get equalized because they are the same value? Not sure on the answer to that.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, since it'd be "reduced by the same amount".
