Tier 4 Demise, Link, and Hylia

[ThePerpetual]

I think that implies that the Moon is Majora's toy, and that he can reality-warp. Not that the Sun in the background (which we only even see once, and isn't really made note of at all) is the same thing as our real-world Sun.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Perpetual

Same as Demise, then, haha. The only difference is that Demise did state that he would create the realm, while Majora is just implied doing it. But really, how would you explain having a realm inside the moon that contains a field and single tree in the middle of it, being iluminated by a sun-like thing in what appears to be the sky, just minutes after Majora entered said Moon?

Being the Reality Warper we know it is, the likeliest thing to have happened is that it created it.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Isnt this kinda like the Kaguya feat, the Majora one I mean?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Isnt this kinda like the Kaguya feat, the Majora one I mean?

After seeing the Kaguya thing, I don't think so. Kaguya has the problem of severe lack of information; for example, if she didn't just stumbled upon said realm. And also, that she could simply have used an artificial light source.

With Majora we know it can't be it just stumbled upon it, because... Well... There isn't a whole realm inside the moon. I think. ovo And also given how it had control over it (the game of the Four Masked Children, the face, etc). As for the Light thing, well... We do see a Sun in there.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Ok.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Isnt this kinda like the Kaguya feat, the Majora one I mean?

Perhaps Kaguya not being Star level is pure downplay..

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Isnt this kinda like the Kaguya feat, the Majora one I mean?

After seeing the Kaguya thing, I don't think so. Kaguya has the problem of severe lack of information; for example, if she didn't just stumbled upon said realm. And also, that she could simply have used an artificial light source.
With Majora we know it can't be it just stumbled upon it, because... Well... There isn't a whole realm inside the moon. I think. ovo And also given how it had control over it (the game of the Four Masked Children, the face, etc). As for the Light thing, well... We do see a Sun in there.

This is simply wrong.

 

[Metabro]

https://zeldauniverse.net/forums/Thread/151525-Demise-s-Japanese-Speech-Re-Translated/

"Original Japanese Text: Iidarou. Jaama ga hairenu basho de aite wo ÔÖÑÔÖÑÔÖÑÔÖÑeyarou. Sono yuuki ga aru no narabana.

Literal Translation: Fine. I shall face you in place where no-one shall get in the way. If you really have such courage to go for it, then.

NoA Translation: Very well, then. I shall prepare a place for us where we will not be bothered by distractions. If you still have the courage to face me, seek me there."

"Original Japanest Text: Inochi wo oshimu naraba nigedaÔÖÑÔÖÑÔÖÑÔÖÑe mo kamawan. Ware ga yo wo shihaisuru made no wazukana jikan wo ningenrashiku nakikuru ga ii... Daga mazoku no yo ni aragau i ga aru to iunonara...

Ware no ato wo ottekoi. Sukoshi deareba matteiyarou...

Literal Translation: I do not care if you value your life and run away. Go ahead and weep like a human during the little time left before I rule the world... But if you claim of having the courage to step into the Demon Tribe's world, then... Come after me. I shall wait for a little while.

NoA Translation: If you fear for your life, do not follow me. You can spend what little time your world has left cowering and crying, as befits your kind. But if you truly desire to raise your blade against the world I would build, come for me.

I've waited eons to return. I can spare a few more moments to let you decide."

This looks more like a mistranslation. The place Demise sent them was the Demon Tribe's World, a detail missing from the NoA translation, which made it seem like a dimension he just randomly created

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

... I think i trust the official translation more than a random fan-translation.

 

[Metabro]

Good thing the original text is (mostly) right there. But who am I kidding, NoA doesn't have a history of these kind of translation flubs rite? :^)

All jokes aside, for a feat this vague and with this translation existing, I'd like to see a confirmation that the NoA translations of these speeches aligns with the Japanese text, seeing as the English translation is literally thie only thing you're going by

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Well.. we would need the original hiragana and kanji to do that, and the link you provided only has a transliteration of the hiragana.

 

[Legion350]

Who scales to this feat?

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

Well, that changes nothing at all...

On that same link you've send:

"The final battle with Demise takes place in Demise's "mazoku no yo", which means "Demon Tribe's World". From what I understand and Yamikawa's interpretation, this seems to pretty much be a "more complete" way of saying "makai"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't know why I still have this open lol. This was concluded.

 

[Metabro]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-eu9o8-MRUnV6Rpuzu6YSuM0Ue3CrYiKwRzISRVvFHQ/mobilebasic

Found another better source for the text. Gameplay will be hard to find as most Japanese editions of the game are just used for speed runs. Nothing really contradicts the fan translation though. Even the Hyrule Historia mentions the existence of the Demon Tribe, so it's not out of the question they'd have their own world. As it stands the upgrades are in doubt until this literal translation is proven false. For what it's worth [Zelda Dungeo] and the [Zelda Wiki] also find this translation legit

 

[ThePerpetual]

Is it though? I was asked for by name, by a bueraucrat, and its my opinion they're still debating. If we've concluded, we should at least officially state what we're going with...

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

"Demon's Tribe World" Demise pretty much created that place, maybe not now (during or before the fight), but it is at least a possibility...

 

[Metabro]

Well, that changes nothing at all...

On that same link you've send:

"The final battle with Demise takes place in Demise's "mazoku no yo", which means "Demon Tribe's World". From what I understand and Yamikawa's interpretation, this seems to pretty much be a "more complete" way of saying "makai"

Did you read the quote? Demise told Link that if he was brave enough to face him that he should meet him in the "Demon Tribe's World." Nothing about it says Demise literally created it

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

You realize that Òü¥Òü×ÒüÅ Òü« Òéê (mazoku no yo) can mean the Demon Kings World. Which makes much more sense in context.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Here's my translation, thank you for the Hiragana and Kanji.

Úé¬Ú¡öÒüîÕàÑÒéïÒü¼Õá┤µëÇÒüºþø©µëïÒéÆÒüùÒüªÒéäÒéìÒüå.

Okay then. I shall make a space where we will have no distractions exist. If you have the guts to fight me, you will find me there.

 

[Metabro]

The text uses [this] form of mazoku, meaning "demon tribe." He's the ruler of the demons, wants his people to rule the world, and curses Hyrule on behalf of his clan. This perfectly makes sense with the context if the scene

EDIT: This article also mentions the "Gods' Tribe" as traditionally being the polar opposite of the "Demons' Tribe," which is directly mentioned in Demise's speech using the same exact kanji

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm far iffier about Majora's feat, since nowhere is it stated or implied that Majora created that realm. The environment isn't really interacted with in any meaningful way, either, so I'd just chalk that one up to being similar to, say, Rider/Iskandar's Reality Marble.

The moon and everything inside of it literally stop existing as soon as Majora is defeated, meaning Majora is what sustained it. It also changes said environment five times in total (Odolwa, Goht, Gyorg, and Twinmold's trials, plus the fight with Majora).

One could argue for both Demise and Majora's feats being legit or not legit, but you can't really argue for one being so while the other isn't if the reason for one being legit is something the other feat also satisfies.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

The text uses [this] form of mazoku, meaning "demon tribe." He's the ruler of the demons, wants his people to rule the world, and curses Hyrule on behalf of his clan. This perfectly makes sense with the context if the scene

No it doesn't.. the word Ú¡öµùÅ (mazoku) means demonic or magic being. Ergo Demon King in this context.

 

[Metabro]

Here's my translation, thank you for the Hiragana and Kanji.

Úé¬Ú¡öÒüîÕàÑÒéïÒü¼Õá┤µëÇÒüºþø©µëïÒéÆÒüùÒüªÒéäÒéìÒüå.

Okay then. I shall make a space where we will have no distractions exist. If you have the guts to fight me, you will find me there.

Interesting. Which part says "make?"

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Ú¡öµùÅ (mazoku) means demonic or magic being. Ú¡ö alone means demon, and µùÅ alone means tribe. The translator made an elementary mistake.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Here's my translation, thank you for the Hiragana and Kanji.

Úé¬Ú¡öÒüîÕàÑÒéïÒü¼Õá┤µëÇÒüºþø©µëïÒéÆÒüùÒüªÒéäÒéìÒüå.

Okay then. I shall make a space where we will have no distractions exist. If you have the guts to fight me, you will find me there.

Interesting. Which part says "make?"

ÕàÑÒéï means to start to exist/to set in.

 

[Metabro]

The dictionary you linked [says] that means "to get in; to go in; to come in; to flow into; to set; to set in" though? Are you thinking of another word, because I think that helps my case if Demise just entered this world instead if created it?

Also, the definition you linked for mazoku has a sentence that uses the word in a plural sense, which lines up with the wiki article that says it's common for the term to mean a race of demons in Japanese fiction

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

The dictionary you linked [says] that means "to get in; to go in; to come in; to flow into; to set; to set in" though? Are you thinking of another word, because I think that helps my case if Demise just entered this world instead if created it?
Also, the definition you linked for mazoku has a sentence that uses the word in a plural sense, which lines up with the wiki article that says it's common for the term to mean a race of demons in Japanese fiction

It's the context of the suffix Òüº which means start; beginning.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Hmmm... Every time I've seen the word "Mazoku," I've seen it referred to as one individual.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Hmmm... Every time I've seen the word "Mazoku," I've seen it referred to as one individual.

Japanese has no singular or plural so it's all up to context.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps somebody can ask Sera Loveheart and VenomElite to translate this, as they speak fluent Japanese.

 

[Metabro]

It's the context of the suffix Òüº which means start; beginning.

You have to bear with me, my knowledge on the Japanese language is the sum of this conversation and a Styx song. How does the word for "start" and the word for "enter," both on different parts of the sentence, combine to form "make?"

And what about mazoku being plural makes less sense in terms of context? From the prologue we've know Demise's goal was to rule the world with his army of demons. Cursing Link on behalf of his tribe and saying that his tribe of demons will rule with the Triforce don't contradict that notion at all. On the other hand, what you're implying is that he's using mazoku to refer to himself, which kinda reads a bit weirder, like he randomly switches from referring to himself in 1st oerson to 3rd person

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Perhaps somebody can ask Sera Loveheart and VenomElite to translate this, as they speak fluent Japanese.

I have asked two of my translators on reddit, /u/First_Mate_Zoro & /u/Voxanimus.

Regardless Demise still scales from Majora.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is probably better to ask people who are native speakers.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Voxanimus translates Japanese for ***********.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Then it should be alright.