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Thor Ragnarok, scaling issues (spoilers)

7th_Ki'oon

7th_Ki'oon

461
38
I just got back from watching Ragnorok, amazing film, oddly inconsistent generally.

Hera, for example is ridiculously weak. All she can do is manifest blades quickly and of varying sizes, yet her durability is completely obscene, by comparison. Yet she seemingly gets destroyed by a skyscraper size sword, this is made more egregious by the fact Thor by his words hit her with his best shot whilst powered-up, and it does nothing. Also, Hulks skin gets punchard with visible blood, by giant zombie wolf. Yet, he never bleeds or shows harm, when he fights everything else. Which may mean, that Fenir? has one of the highest AP, in the mcu. Outside of the gems.

Also, loki probably has the tesseract. Also, the Eternal Flame, was pretty OP, will odin have option to use his vault as equipment, for vs fights, also thor is stronger than odin, at the end, which isn't really that strong.

Maybe infinity war will clear, it all up.

This is, all going to have to scale retroactively as well, since thor loses his hammer, yet fights pretty well for most of the film. And hulk as well, who's strength doesn't wildly vary, based on anger?

Any questions or input, feel free.
 
Didn't Hela casually crush Mjolnir or something?

How the heck did you even see the movie yet? It's not coming out for almost two weeks.
 
Maybe hela, nullified it's durability, it's more of a wand than a weapon.

(also, it would have to be, otherwise hela is STAR LEVEL or so, which would scale across the MCU, especially since hulk damages something that she's having difficulty killing, and is confident enough that he can kill it, as can thor)

I'll refine, from story spoilers as much as I can, unless promoted to otherwise. It's too good of, a film to ruin.
 
SO a few questions:

1. You said Hella's attacks are weak but she has the Necrosword.

A) Is the Necrosword nerfed compared to the comics?

B) What does the Necrosword allow Hella to do?

C) Are Hella's only abilities blade creation?

D) where would you rank her ultimately?

2. You stated her Durability is obscene so would you say she's a brick wall (low AP but very high durability)?

3. What was Thor powered up by: the odin force, was it warrior maddnes or something else?

4. So Thor doesn't get mjolnir back? Does he at least get to keep and wield his axe Jarnbjorn?

5. Hulk bleeds due to Fenris' attack? Interesting but iirc, the Hulkbuster did knock out Hulk's tooth in AoU.

6. Where would you rank Surtur and Valkyrie?
 
1. I think she has it, but she kept summoning blades so often, I don't know if necrosword has any properties. (and I now, have absolute faith in Disney, doing live action Fate, the blade choreography was amazing, it was like watching bleach)

C, fundamentally yes, she's gilgamesh. But like loki she has magic (of plot convenience) she uses the enteral flame to create a necro army, but she displays no affinity as the goddess of Death, she's more Aries than hades. This is further enforced with a flashback via valkyrie, where she just throws as many Spears as there are enemies, (probably 200+, or so) not all at once, however. But, I'm certain that what I say can be used as a primarily basis, and anything I get wrong can be amended in 2 weeks.

D) I really can't say, because I'm not even sure she was killed, (she maybe like cell, many people wouldn't understand why he's solar system level, because he never blew up a system) she survived being stabbed through with a sword ala DMC 4 Dante style, plus there's a vortex beneath Asgard, so she may of fallen through after reconstituting herself, or telephoned. Thor couldn't harm her (don't think it was odin force, I shall describe it as super saiyan thor, who odin says this is his full power)

Honestly, nuking her probably won't kill her, but send rescue Rukia arc Zaraki after her, and she's probably dead. The issue will remain, how big is Asgard, because that's going to define her peak feat. she throws same big Ben size Spears multiple times (I think) to no avail.

So island level max, but large city based on scaling from thor. Again the scaling is egregious, compared to gotg 2, which was beautiful, for mcu wide scaling.

2. She's unharmed by everything, practically, so it was 1 the Eiffel Tower or a large modern New York skyscraper size sword that killed her, it's a cinema screen everything's exaggerated. So yes, she's like the scorpion raid boss in borderlands 2, takes no damage solo unless your massively over leveled and spams projectiles whilst zipping all over the place.

3.cannot state anything, other than his super saiyan power up, is completely shit. It's destiny bladedancer, and not super saiyan sadly. He still has to wade through mooks, whilst using it, instead of firing off energy blasts and wiping the bifrost of them. You'll see what I mean.

4.no, he's a quite deal weaker without it, even though he's supposed to be much stronger. He can summon much more powerful lightning but he only does it once. No axe, and he keeps the short hair. And something else, that going to cause issue.

5, it's his lower leg muscle, which should be far more durable, than a tooth root, it only took fenrir 45 seconds or so, and his fangs are fairly big.

6. Surtur, again Asgard size scaling, but city level via size, not much durability considering thor takes it down in the opening credits. Valkyrie, she's an elite asgardian, so captain America level generally, they were on a different planet, so that may have been a factor.
 
But, Surtur does get resurrected, and bigger as well, but somehow has the magic to destroy All of Asgard, of whom hulk and thor strongly imply they could take down.
 
Thanks for the response. So I guess the big upgrades will come during infinity war. Thor's power development sounds really disappointing and I can't help but feel like it's to keep him below Captain Marvel, likewise the same can be said for Hulk. Question: you stated in number 4 that he doesn't get the axe and keeps the short hair (whhhhhhy!!!) But you implied in your last sentence that something else will be an issue, what is it?
 
On redit, some people who saw it said that begining on movie surtur was nerfed as Odin stripped him of the EF, so he's full power at the end. I also hear that Odin rewrites history and that hela...

  • SPOILER*
Only breaks free when he died.

  • SPOILER END*
So wouldn't the scaling be:

Odin (Old and Weak) > Hela > Thor ~ Hulk > Surtur (Via statement or implication) > Hela (Due to Ragnarok).
 
Thors power up, is more kaioken X 1.5. But, theirs an aesthetic change to thor that I won't spoil, that may imply greater power, and cause more issues.
 
Lol I know but maybe you broke some hearts when you basically confirmed little upgrades for Thor and Hulk. I'm happy the movie is great but I was hoping for more feats so it will give more weight to Thanos when he does the crazy stuff.
 
I think thor may have some Regenerationn or low level immortality.

Because, in the thor vs hulk fight, thor handles himself really really well, can causally swing Hulks giant hammer around, an it just staggers him. Once hulk get a rage boost, from the barrage he starts curb stomping thor;then thor gets hi kaioken X 1.5 mode, and reverses the fight something fierce, and goes for a death blow? based on previous dialogue, is interrupted by grandmaster pointless easter Egg of not cosmic powers (sadly) with the ingrained neck cheap placed on him by valkyrie, in the beginning. Because, of this Hulks finishing blow for thor is really disappointing. (unless the arena I made of diamond grade tiles or akin)

He jumps up to the grandmasters box (in height) about 60M tops low twenties, and slams down with both feet, everyone thinks thor is dead, long enough that he begins to to wrapped up and buried (by Loki's request?) he wakes up, captain jack style, and wakes up in Hulks bedroom.

But it's, never made clear weather it was intentional, on Hulks behalf. So peak striking power, maybe is a downgrade, compared to avengers with the carrier fight. And again no mention of the planets gravity, affecting them, unless they rectcon in infinity war (they probably will)

Strange gets some interesting upgrades by ******* with Loki, pretty easily. Buttttt Loki had an infinity stone for while, so he maybe is weakened? (Cumberbatch still has incredibly stupid American accent, that hampers his performance) Loki takes indignation with strange, thinking he's a powerful sorcerer, goes straight for blades.
 
Also, when the main discussion thread is started, could I get a shout out/credit/ a thanks in the original post?
 
7th Ki'oon said:
Also, when the main discussion thread is started, could I get a shout out/credit/ a thanks in the original post?
Click to expand...
No problem. I'm seeing the movie here in the states at 10:30am Nov. 3rd when its released. I couldn't get a midnight showing because I hate 3D and refuse to watch it and it's the only offered midnight showing in my area. So, if nobody else see's it and makes one before me, I'll definitely shout you out.
 
I would rather we hold this discussion off until many people have watched it.

Atm, I'm only aware of the UK having seen it.

It's your choice, OP, if you want to just bump this after, say, a week or two, or if you want to make a new thread.
 
I just saw the film and don't know what you mean Hela is weak. She casually took on all of Asgards warriors, can easily beat thor even when buffed up with his lightning upgrade and thor he had the help of some pretty powerful people and still got his ass kicked. The only way she got beaten is by Surtur, a giant flame demon who ,if you can't remember, DESTROYED THE WHOLE OF ASGARD WITH EASE. So yea, really don't know what movie you watched to call Hela weak.
 
Gemmysaur said:
It's your choice, OP, if you want to just bump this after, say, a week or two, or if you want to make a new thread.
Click to expand...
I would like it, bumped, thank you, very much.
 
Fancy Skull said:
I yea, really don't know what movie you watched to call Hela weak.
Click to expand...
Because, she isn't remotely impressive, all she can do is blade creation, not particularly impressive scale, compared to most anime, and whilst she scales to thor and hulk, they themselves are so unstrong, that I sincerely think that that DCU Superman (Henry) could take them with ease. Or the CW-verse, I'm not joking, her AP level is seriously unimpressive, because of how it's manifest in this iteration.

Thors strongest attack, just damages a stone tower, a depowered thor handles hulk pretty well, and difference between them after hulk gets angry, is minimal;As it is when thor gets useless power up.

Unless, this site accepts thor's non contradict statement of his hammer being forged in the heart of a dying star, seriously, like moon level hagoromo, which would make hella have star level lifting? For crushing it, but thor takes many blows from hella giving him mim planet level durability, and Hulk via scaling and so many others, whom manged to harm him or stagger.
 
Really? You're comparing Anime to a comicbook movie? Obviosuly they won't have overly exagarated attacks with billions of blades being created or whatever you were thinking, it fitted with the content not to have overblown affects, it did what it needed to do. On the subject of her blades, they were pretty impressive in the fact that it appeared that it had the ability to pierce just about anything and she could even manipulate the size of her blades at will. I don't know what else you were expecting her blades to do.
 
Goddess of Death, feared by odin, banishment tied to his lifeforce, after doctor strange time gem shenanigans, I was expecting a great more deal of variety, like cleaving an island in halve by magic or incinerating the city of Asgard or doing humongous damage to one of the 9 realms not bargain bin Gilgamesh without any ace up the sleeve, that is stupidly overhyped and disappointing, like Zaraki's shikai that was a giant axe, that didn't even have any known properties displayed.

Many people, will soon agree she's woefully underpowered in real terms, as a boss character.

Tony has more destructive power than her, collectively, and he's mortal. Both vision and Scarlet Witch are more intimidating to fight, even ultron and malakieth, is fundamentally more powerful than her.
 
This isn't anime where everyone needs to be super OP and show off their awesome ability to wreck shit with ease. For what she is, they do a good job at showing that she is pretty powerful in her own right. She has some fairly descent feats that doesn't go overboard. She isn't some super god who can destroy planets with a flick of her wrist or anything, she is still just the daughter of Odin, the goddess of death is just a title, she isn't actually a god that's pretty obvious.
 
I really have to see this movie for context in what you guys are saying. Spoiler said that Thor has been on Musiplheim fighting for 2 years, and that it's a dysonsphere around a Dying Star, I.E., A Hyper Giant. So, it stands to Reason that Thor would be unquantifiably stronger before going to earth. Idk, all I know is AP=/=DC.

Thor is already City Level, he should be rated at City Level, Likely Higher (Unleashed his full potential in battle against Hela).
 
Problem is, that hela only uses her biggest attack at the end, and was able to kill thor with her bare hands, in both instances, but is killed by having an equivalent of a skyscraper bisected.

When, compared to strange wrapping time over and over, the film hardly feels worthy of the title ragnorok, in simpler terms; hela is Kaguya supposed to be stronger but doesn't have any of the abilities of the villain before them, that made madara incredible strong.
 
One shotted via the skyscraper sword. She throws 4 30M or so long Spears, which may of killed him in time, but he laughs at her, and shatters the entirety of Asgard. (There's a very funny joke, about it.)
 
It's not like AP is soley determined by area of destruction, so I'm not really sure what the problem here is. She has consistenly shown to be superior to Thor.
 
There isn't really a problem here. Hela is by no means weak. She's superior to Thor (even post-power up, who was above Hulk), Loki, and Valkyrie combined, which is demonstrated in the film. She's only pierced a few times, and none of them do any lasting damage.

Surtur, who kills her, does so in the same attack that blows the entirety of Asgard to pieces. This attack is a minimum of mountain level via Asgard's size alone, and the KE will likely make it much higher. There is no durability issue with this. Saying it's inconsistent because the sword is the size of a skyscraper is equivalent to saying any character who can survive human level attacks shouldn't be killed by a direct punch, no matter how much stronger the other character is.

Thor became stronger after a power up that Odin made clear had made Mjolnir obsolete, as it was only ever there to focus his power. It's properly explained and not out of nowhere.

Fenris harming Hulk is in no way inconsistent either. This is a character who has only ever appeared in this film and whose only feat is beating up on Hulk. There are no anti-feats this is competing with. When the two clash, they both inflict damage on each other and seem pretty evenly matched. Hulk ends up having to win by knocking the wolf off the side of Asgard. So yes, it's comparable to Hulk.
 
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