This fight had to happen sooner or later

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

• Goku's Pre-North Kai training key is used
• Speed is equalized
• Goku can use Nyoibou
• Fight takes place on Onigashima Island where Goku takes Luffy's place

Kaido: 5
Goku: 8
Tie: 2

FIGHT!!

 

[RedReaper616]

So, from what I see, at Kaido's strongest he's at 1.381 Zettatons, whilst in comparison Goku sits at 22.1558317334 (22.16) Zettatons. So Goku has a massive strength advantage both in his physicals and at range with his blasts. Speaking of range, Goku's is far higher, as he can affect distances as far as the moon whereas Kaido's page lists him at the dozens of kilometers range.

Speed is equalized.

Goku should be the more skilled hand to hand fighter (as far as I know).

Stamina wise, Kaido has the advantage entirely.

Kaido should just outright have more hax abilities than Goku, and I don't think there's much argument to be had there.

So to me it seems to come down to the fact Kaido can see the future, know Goku has uber one shot AP, and then immediately attack with a hax ability that allows him to either defeat Goku as fast as he possibly can, or if Kaido allows himself to sandbag at first and essentially allow himself to get killed, though if in character, Goku would probably venture to slowly reveal his power over time, and as such that isn't likely to happen.

I'm voting Kaido due to superior hax, information gathering capacity to know to act on that one advantage, and character traits.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

So, from what I see, at Kaido's strongest he's at 1.381 Zettatons, whilst in comparison Goku sits at 22.1558317334 (22.16) Zettatons. So Goku has a massive strength advantage both in his physicals and at range with his blasts. Speaking of range, Goku's is far higher, as he can affect distances as far as the moon whereas Kaido's page lists him at the dozens of kilometers range.

Speed is equalized.

Goku should be the more skilled hand to hand fighter (as far as I know).

Stamina wise, Kaido has the advantage entirely.

Kaido should just outright have more hax abilities than Goku, and I don't think there's much argument to be had there.

So to me it seems to come down to the fact Kaido can see the future, know Goku has uber one shot AP, and then immediately attack with a hax ability that allows him to either defeat Goku as fast as he possibly can, or if Kaido allows himself to sandbag at first and essentially allow himself to get killed, though if in character, Goku would probably venture to slowly reveal his power over time, and as such that isn't likely to happen.

I'm voting Kaido due to superior hax, information gathering capacity to know to act on that one advantage, and character traits.

Which listed hax allows him to beat Goku exactly? I checked his profile, I couldn't find anything

 

[Kachon123]

Which listed hax allows him to beat Goku exactly? I checked his profile, I couldn't find anything

Blast Breath heat, Haōshoku Haki, Kaifu, Tornados, several stackable speed-blitz amps,

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Blast Breath heat, Haōshoku Haki, Kaifu, Tornados, several stackable speed-blitz amps,

Only hax worth here is haoshoku, which is the only real threat imo

They kept hakai in such an obscure place, I had to read it again to see it

Reading below, I saw this

Haōshoku Haki (Color of the Conquering King): Kaidou's proficiency with this power is immense, his showcase of his Haōshoku Haki was displayed when he clashed with Big Mom on Onigashima producing an immense haki clash that shook Onigashima and split the heavens, it could even be seen far away from the island. Most notably, Kaidou is one of the few powerful individuals able to imbue their Haōshoku Haki into objects such as his kanabo, which is signified by thin lightning-like streams of dark energy emanating from the imbued areas. This imbuement allows him to dramatically increase his attack power as a supplement to his natural physical strength and Busōshoku Haki.

Seems like an AP amp, and based on his AP values, it doesn't even match normal goku, let alone with KK, a single kiai could incapacitate kaido

Unless I am missing something?

 

[Kachon123]

Only hax worth here is haoshoku, which is the only real threat imo

They kept hakai in such an obscure place, I had to read it again to see it

Reading below, I saw this


Seems like an AP amp, and based on his AP values, it doesn't even match normal goku, let alone with KK, a single kiai could incapacitate kaido

Unless I am missing something?

1. The heat from any of Kaidou's attacks are accepted to scale scale above 28000ºC, which is beyond anything Goku is accepted to resist.

2. Kaifu are invisible slashes that could not be sensed by skilled Kenbunshoku Haki users. While Goku has higher durability, he's not going to just stand there and want to get hit with a danmaku of piercing/slashing attacks for obvious reasons.

3. Kaidou's tornados, just like his Kaifu have slashing properties. On top of that, Kaidou has much better Lifting Strength than Goku, which would allow his tornados to sweep Goku away and into his jaws or tail which would allow him to squeeze Goku to death and then vaporize him whole.

4. Kaidou can see several seconds into the immediate future, read Goku's mind, the intent behind his attacks, and his emotions and process it all at once as a sort of information analysis that also boosts his perception speed by several times, making him virtually untouchable. On top of this, Kaidou can drink alcohol to continuously make himself and his abilities more potent to the point to where he can blitz the future sight of someone who prior to accelerating speed could blitz him. He also has his short burst of speed Baguas which allow him to blitz people with sensory abilities, with faster versions of it.

5. Haōshoku is much, much more than just a damaging shockwave. Haōshoku is a projected burst of the user's willpower that allows them to dominate over the wills of the opponent, knocking them out instantly. Kaidou's Haki scales relative to Gear 5 Luffy, whose Haki can knock out and subdue people who can dominate over the egos and individual personalities of 100 peoples' souls while just 2 could likely kill the average person. In this key, Goku's best feat of willpower is fighting through Kaio-Ken, which destroys your body during usage. Unfortunately, this is a lowtier One Piece willpower feat at best, as even low tier New World fighters like the mink civilians of Zou could survive various torture methods such as crucifixion, suffocation through deadly gasses, and amputation.

I'm definitely voting Kaidou. His wincons are so much more viable than Goku's. This is without mentioning out Kaidou's endurance would probably allow him to take some hits from Goku if it ever gets to that.

 

[That_moron2]

whose Haki can knock out and subdue people who can dominate over the egos and individual personalities of 100 peoples' souls while just 2 could likely kill the average person

When did it knock out someone on that level?

 

[Huesito88]

1. The heat from any of Kaidou's attacks are accepted to scale scale above 28000ºC, which is beyond anything Goku is accepted to resist.

2. Kaifu are invisible slashes that could not be sensed by skilled Kenbunshoku Haki users. While Goku has higher durability, he's not going to just stand there and want to get hit with a danmaku of piercing/slashing attacks for obvious reasons.

3. Kaidou's tornados, just like his Kaifu have slashing properties. On top of that, Kaidou has much better Lifting Strength than Goku, which would allow his tornados to sweep Goku away and into his jaws or tail which would allow him to squeeze Goku to death and then vaporize him whole.

4. Kaidou can see several seconds into the immediate future, read Goku's mind, the intent behind his attacks, and his emotions and process it all at once as a sort of information analysis that also boosts his perception speed by several times, making him virtually untouchable. On top of this, Kaidou can drink alcohol to continuously make himself and his abilities more potent to the point to where he can blitz the future sight of someone who prior to accelerating speed could blitz him. He also has his short burst of speed Baguas which allow him to blitz people with sensory abilities, with faster versions of it.

5. Haōshoku is much, much more than just a damaging shockwave. Haōshoku is a projected burst of the user's willpower that allows them to dominate over the wills of the opponent, knocking them out instantly. Kaidou's Haki scales relative to Gear 5 Luffy, whose Haki can knock out and subdue people who can dominate over the egos and individual personalities of 100 peoples' souls while just 2 could likely kill the average person. In this key, Goku's best feat of willpower is fighting through Kaio-Ken, which destroys your body during usage. Unfortunately, this is a lowtier One Piece willpower feat at best, as even low tier New World fighters like the mink civilians of Zou could survive various torture methods such as crucifixion, suffocation through deadly gasses, and amputation.

I'm definitely voting Kaidou. His wincons are so much more viable than Goku's. This is without mentioning out Kaidou's endurance would probably allow him to take some hits from Goku if it ever gets to that.

1. Heat does not allow you to bypass the strength advantage of Goku which is over the one shot range, unless Goku is trying to make it a fair fight rather than going to full power one shot

3. In a fight between anyone with more than the accepted one shot range vs someone with higher lifting strength but has 8 times or higher disadvantage, their lifting strength won't help in damaging at all of course you can still use it to restrict someone's movement.

unless Goku is trying to make it a fair fight rather than going to full power one shot

(haoshoku is fair game though)

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

Goku's best feat of willpower is fighting through Kaio-Ken, which destroys your body during usage.

Pretty sure Goku has way better feats than that. Survive drinking The Water of Gods, a potent toxin that requires tremendous will, defeat King Piccolo with 2 broken legs, a broken arm and a hole in his body, survive a literal beatdown from Great Ape Vegeta, an opponent that’s over 10 times more powerful than him after having his body broken by Kaio Ken and his bones and vital organs most likely been heavily damaged.

 

[Kachon123]

When did it knock out someone on that level?

1. Heat does not allow you to bypass the strength advantage of Goku which is over the one shot range, unless Goku is trying to make it a fair fight rather than going to full power one shot

Heat absolutely does allow you to bypass durability. That's the entire point of heat-based damage used in most fights. Pressure resistance and heat resistance are completely unrelated. Even on the wiki's durability negation page, it states:

• Temperature Manipulation - Heat and its manipulation, whether making things extremely cold or extremely hot often ignores durability.

3. In a fight between anyone with more than the accepted one shot range vs someone with higher lifting strength but has 8 times weaker or lower, there lifting strength won't help in damaging at all of course you can still use it to restrict someone's movement.

Lifting strength does allow you to bypass durability to a certain degree. In One Piece specifically, it allows people to harm characters who they can't otherwise. Pure lifting strength allowed Oozaru Vegeta to bring Goku to a state to where he was unable to move.

 

[Kachon123]

Pretty sure Goku has way better feats than that. Survive drinking The Water of Gods, a potent toxin that requires tremendous will, defeat King Piccolo with 2 broken legs, a broken arm and a hole in his body, survive a literal beatdown from Great Ape Vegeta, an opponent that’s over 10 times more powerful than him after having his body broken by Kaio Ken and his bones and vital organs most likely been heavily damaged.

Again, these are all low tier One Piece willpower feats and can't compare to what Luffy did on Thriller Bark or what it takes to successfully awaken a Zoan Devil Fruit.

 

[Huesito88]

Heat absolutely does allow you to bypass durability. That's the entire point of heat-based damage used in most fights. Pressure resistance and heat resistance are completely unrelated. Even on the wiki's durability negation page, it states:


Lifting strength does allow you to bypass durability to a certain degree. In One Piece specifically, it allows people to harm characters who they can't otherwise. Pure lifting strength allowed Oozaru Vegeta to bring Goku to a state to where he was unable to move.

"Heat is treated as dura, yes, but for it to scale to physicals, you need a Universal Energy Source." Klol comment

For lifting strength I did say you could use it to restrain people

 

[Kachon123]

"Heat is treated as dura, yes, but for it to scale to physicals, you need a Universal Energy Source." Klol comment

What this means is that if someone weaker than Goku were to use a fire-based attack to harm him, unless there's UES, it won't scale to that person's physicals, as fire is dura neg.

For lifting strength I did say you could use it to restrain people

And you can use compression and pressure to harm their internal structures.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Yeah, pretty sure Kaido has this in the bag. Goku can't handle his heat, he actually uses his lifting strength in ways that can harm Goku, and while Goku has some impressive willpower feats, Kaido's willpower massively upscales from Thriller Bark Luffy who was capable of absorbing the 100 shadows without any issue which would have killed a normal person 33-50 times over

 

[BitestDust]

Overall the fight looks like a "Goku will win because he'll destroy the planet" meme. What's stopping him from making one ranged attack and knocking Kaido out?
They have equal speed, which means the speedblitz option is impossible, and in a clash of pure power, Goku is way stronger.

Or here's an example: even though Goku is taken before Kaio's training, his power would be enough to replicate Nappa's move when he destroyed the city around him with a finger raise. It's a simple technique - just throwing energy in all directions, something that fighters who aren't Ki masters at all are capable of. Something like this was done by Piccolo before the saiyan saga, and Goku can just copy this.

How would Kaido block an all-around attack like that? Or does his fire along with the temperature is compared to Goku's AP? Or will his Haki be able to block this attack somehow? I highly doubt it.

As it looks to me, there are many battle options here, but the simplest one is Goku just destroying everything around him to the level of a small planet, including Kaido and all his energy attacks. I think superior hax like seeing future or durability ignoring useless in that situation cuz it doesn't help against pure AP.
So i vote for Goku.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Overall the fight looks like a "Goku will win because he'll destroy the planet" meme. What's stopping him from making one ranged attack and knocking Kaido out?
They have equal speed, which means the speedblitz option is impossible, and in a clash of pure power, Goku is way stronger.

Precognition lets Kaido dodge it, and his speedblitz option is in the form of his own several speed amps

Or here's an example: even though Goku is taken before Kaio's training, his power would be enough to replicate Nappa's move when he destroyed the city around him with a finger raise. It's a simple technique - just throwing energy in all directions, something that fighters who aren't Ki masters at all are capable of. Something like this was done by Piccolo before the saiyan saga, and Goku can just copy this.

How would Kaido block an all-around attack like that? Or does his fire along with the temperature is compared to Goku's AP? Or will his Haki be able to block this attack somehow? I highly doubt it.

At an advanced level (which Kaido has) Busoshoku Haki is capable of creating barriers and Kaido could avoid it via speed amps, precognition, and flight.

As it looks to me, there are many battle options here, but the simplest one is Goku just destroying everything around him to the level of a small planet, including Kaido and all his energy attacks. I think superior hax like seeing future or durability ignoring useless in that situation cuz it doesn't help against pure AP.
So i vote for Goku.

I don't think it's likely for Goku to pull out a move like that before Kaido uses one of his usual unga-bunga tactics to hax him. Not only does he prefer to fight more directly but Onigashima is in Wano which is an inhabitated area. If Goku pulls a Nappa he'd likely end up killing a lot of people, and while the Beast Pirates dying wouldn't be an issue, there are innocents lives there.

 

[BitestDust]

Precognition lets Kaido dodge it, and his speedblitz option is in the form of his own several speed amps

At an advanced level (which Kaido has) Busoshoku Haki is capable of creating barriers and Kaido could avoid it via speed amps, precognition, and flight.



I don't think it's likely for Goku to pull out a move like that before Kaido uses one of his usual unga-bunga tactics to hax him. Not only does he prefer to fight more directly but Onigashima is in Wano which is an inhabitated area. If Goku pulls a Nappa he'd likely end up killing a lot of people, and while the Beast Pirates dying wouldn't be an issue, there are innocents lives there.

Speed amps u say... Well, i can say about it. Zanzoken based on speed, or screamer technique Goku used on Krillin and amp his speed to FTE Krillin and Tien. Looks like good speed amp techniques.
Kaido's speed amps look more like he holding back his full power and just use more of it when he needs.
Barriers will not help cuz Goku AP is way higher than its durability.
Prec is good, but knowledge about imminent death doesn't help to avoid it. It's like know about grenade will explode and being in the elevator car with this grenade on floor. And Kaido in same situation here...

So i think there's still «Goku destroys planet»(Or big piece of One Piece planet due to fight location) meme situation. If Kaido can't nullify energy or stop it in other ways, then he will not survive it.

If we use morals then we need also remember about Kaido hold back his power and didn't use Haki to see future when fights with enemies who can damage him(like it was when furry squad damaged him). But Goku can sense all his power due to his mastery and attack with enough power to defeat Kaido without any killing. And we should think about things like «why Goku and Kaido should fight then? Why they fight is start?». So i prefer option with no char morals cuz its more fair.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Speed amps u say... Well, i can say about it. Zanzoken based on speed, or screamer technique Goku used on Krillin and amp his speed to FTE Krillin and Tien. Looks like good speed amp techniques.
Kaido's speed amps look more like he holding back his full power and just use more of it when he needs.

Some of Kaido's attacks act as speed amps, he can amp himself by getting drunk (He has access to alcohol here since it's his house), and his precog basically acts as it's own amp since he can act before the moment Goku even thinks about doing something.

Barriers will not help cuz Goku AP is way higher than its durability.
Prec is good, but knowledge about imminent death doesn't help to avoid it. It's like know about grenade will explode and being in the elevator car with this grenade on floor. And Kaido in same situation here...

Kaido can predict the attack, run from the blast radius, and use his defense amps + barriers to minimize the amount of damage he takes from it assuming Goku doesn't plan to just destroy the majority of Wano with it

So i think there's still «Goku destroys planet»(Or big piece of One Piece planet due to fight location) meme situation. If Kaido can't nullify energy or stop it in other ways, then he will not survive it.

Oh, so you ment Goku literally just nuking a large chunk of the planet, yeah Kaido has no means around that lol

If we use morals then we need also remember about Kaido hold back his power and didn't use Haki to see future when fights with enemies who can damage him(like it was when furry squad damaged him). But Goku can sense all his power due to his mastery and attack with enough power to defeat Kaido without any killing. And we should think about things like «why Goku and Kaido should fight then? Why they fight is start?». So i prefer option with no char morals cuz its more fair.

Kaido is also capable of sensing how strong Goku is, he isn't going to be treating them like the fodder in Onigashima. The only way Kaido is going to disrespect Goku's abilities is if Goku is actively hiding his power level to seem weaker. Which if that's the case he's either going to power up, which Kaido would definitely sense, or he's testing the waters with Kaido which means Goku isn't to be one shotting him.

 

[SlendVeny]

Kaidou slaughters ngl

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Kaido use any fire attacks

Goku overpowers it with Ki attacks

Kaido predicts the future

Goku has enough AoE to hit him with ease


Haoshoku Haki is good but Kaido never uses that as a opening move and Goku instant wins with anything he does if it lands, even just his Aura while powering up

• Limited Attack Nullification: At this level, ki users can supress and nullify attacks[25]
  
  And if we go by this, Kaido can't land an attack on Goku, his Ki Barrier is just too stronk

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

what’s the current vote?

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

1. The heat from any of Kaidou's attacks are accepted to scale scale above 28000ºC, which is beyond anything Goku is accepted to resist.

Assuming it his Goku's body and bypasses his ki defences or... assuming Goku doesn't just wipe out the attack and kaido with one kiai burst

2. Kaifu are invisible slashes that could not be sensed by skilled Kenbunshoku Haki users. While Goku has higher durability, he's not going to just stand there and want to get hit with a danmaku of piercing/slashing attacks for obvious reasons.

This won't do anything to Goku whatsoever unless he drops his guard, and nothing there says it could not be sensed, just that it was invisible

3. Kaidou's tornados, just like his Kaifu have slashing properties. On top of that, Kaidou has much better Lifting Strength than Goku, which would allow his tornados to sweep Goku away and into his jaws or tail which would allow him to squeeze Goku to death and then vaporize him whole.

One kiai flex and the tornado and kaido get turned to liquid paste, this does nothing

4. Kaidou can see several seconds into the immediate future, read Goku's mind, the intent behind his attacks, and his emotions and process it all at once as a sort of information analysis that also boosts his perception speed by several times, making him virtually untouchable. On top of this, Kaidou can drink alcohol to continuously make himself and his abilities more potent to the point to where he can blitz the future sight of someone who prior to accelerating speed could blitz him. He also has his short burst of speed Baguas which allow him to blitz people with sensory abilities, with faster versions of it.

Aoe blast bypasses this, and Goku has a X4 quantifiable boost as well

5. Haōshoku is much, much more than just a damaging shockwave. Haōshoku is a projected burst of the user's willpower that allows them to dominate over the wills of the opponent, knocking them out instantly. Kaidou's Haki scales relative to Gear 5 Luffy, whose Haki can knock out and subdue people who can dominate over the egos and individual personalities of 100 peoples' souls while just 2 could likely kill the average person. In this key, Goku's best feat of willpower is fighting through Kaio-Ken, which destroys your body during usage. Unfortunately, this is a lowtier One Piece willpower feat at best, as even low tier New World fighters like the mink civilians of Zou could survive various torture methods such as crucifixion, suffocation through deadly gasses, and amputation.

And yet, the fact that all these feats come from other people's usages and the fact that his own profile only lists him using it as a physical amp tells me kaido doesn't or hasn't fought this way in character to knock people out, if I am wrong, feel free to point it out

I'm definitely voting Kaidou. His wincons are so much more viable than Goku's. This is without mentioning out Kaidou's endurance would probably allow him to take some hits from Goku if it ever gets to that.

Understandable, but I disagree, Goku can end his fight eot a simple kiai

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

what’s the current vote?

4-4-0 I believe

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I know some people have argued that Goku could just destroy the planet, but isn’t that out of character for Goku along with killing him too? And also doesn’t this fight take place on the planet of One Piece anyway (which certain calcs make it out to be much larger than IRL Earth).

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I know some people have argued that Goku could just destroy the planet, but isn’t that out of character for Goku along with killing him too? And also doesn’t this fight take place on the planet of One Piece anyway (which certain calcs make it out to be much larger than IRL Earth).

100% out of character for Goku, especially since the One Piece planet is inhabited, yeah it would be a suicide move since Goku can't breathe in space, and IIRC the current One Piece Planet calc that's accepted is like 2/3rds the diameter of the sun

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

I know some people have argued that Goku could just destroy the planet, but isn’t that out of character for Goku along with killing him too? And also doesn’t this fight take place on the planet of One Piece anyway (which certain calcs make it out to be much larger than IRL Earth).

It is OOC and basically suicide, he also doesn't need to nuke the entire planet for kaido, or anywhere close

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Oh, so you ment Goku literally just nuking a large chunk of the planet, yeah Kaido has no means around that lol

Or just creating a wet fart

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

100% out of character for Goku, especially since the One Piece planet is inhabited, yeah it would be a suicide move since Goku can't breathe in space, and IIRC the current One Piece Planet calc that's accepted is like 2/3rds the diameter of the sun

Also that sort of argument should make the outcome of the fight inconclusive by default

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I vote incon because it could go either way

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Goku fra

 

[Arkansalter2]

Incon because it can really be anybody's match.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

boop

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Has kaido actually used conqueror haki mentally? Or just to amp himself physically?

 

[Killerdrone123]

Goku fra

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

boop

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

boop

 

[UltimateMoment]

Hmm... I think I'm voting Goku for this one FRA

 

[MysticBrawler]

The Progenitor of Shounen FRA

 

[Theuser789]

Kaido FRA.