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This fight had to happen later or sooner [0-0-9]

ProfectusInfinity

ProfectusInfinity

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3,426
latest

  • Speed is equalized.
  • Cabba's in his Universe Survival Saga key.
  • Gogeta's in his GT key.
  • Standard Battle Assumptions.

Cabba:​

Gogeta: @TegamiBachi25 @Gilad_Hyperstar @Killerdrone123 @Arkansalter2 @Jaakor48 @Artorimachi_Meteoraft @ProfectusInfinity @MintyBoi1 @Omegas03​

 
Last edited:
I can't remember the exact values right now so I'll just spitball.

Goku absorbed the power of God into his Super Saiyan state, fighting at a similar level as his God form against Beerus
Then as stated in the blog linked on his profile he then further broke his limits to overcome Beerus' Dense Energy Ball
And as we see later on, Base Goku is stated/depicted as being at the level of his previous God state
Overall that would put post-BoG Base Goku at >50x 2-C

After that we see Vegeta state Cabba matches him in base form and then they both go Super Saiyan so during the U6 Tournament:
Base Cabba/Vegeta - >50x 2-C​
SS1 Cabba/Vegeta -> 2,500x 2-C​
SSB Vegeta - >400,000,000x 2-C​

Then during the Goku Black arc, Base Black is superior to SSB Vegeta, attains Super Saiyan Rose (Which should be an 8,000,000x multiplier like Blue) and is then later stomped by SSB Vegeta after he trained in the HTC.
Base Black/Vegeta - >400,000,000 2-C​
SS1 Vegeta - >20,000,000,000x 2-C​
SSGSS Black/Vegeta - >3,200,000,000,000,000x 2-C​

Base Cabba then should be relative to the likes of Caulifla who could fight SS2 Goku with SS2. His profile also scales him to being at least somewhat comparable to Vegeta during the ToP.
Base Cabba - >400,000,000 2-C​
SS1 Cabba - >20,000,000,000x 2-C​
SS2 Cabba - >40,000,000,000x 2-C​

So thus far ToP Cabba seems to be 400 million times 2-C and in his strongest form he is over 40 billion times 2-C.
 
This is the GT scaling chain that was used in the GT Goku vs Super Goku thread.
(BSS) Base Goku :1

(BSS) SS1 Goku : 50x

Rildo base / Sigma / Meta: 1/50/50

Baby: 50 (assuming he scales to either Sigma or Meta Rildo as opposed to Base )

SS1 Goten: 2500x

SS1 Gohan: 125,000x

SS1 Goku: 6,250,000x

Majuub : 6,250,000x

Golden Great Ape/SS4: 62,500,000x

( S17) Base Gohan : 6,250,000x ( Majuub expected Base Gohans KHH to be more effective than his own attacks vs S17 and was left in disbelief when it failed )

SS1 Gohan / Goku / Vegeta: 312,500,000x

SS4 Goku: 3,125,000,000x

Rage Shenron: 3,125,000,000x ( no sold SS4 KHH x10)

Base Nova : 3,125,000,000x ( stated to be above previous dragons)

Base Goku: 3,125,000,000x ( defeated Base Nove)

SS4 Goku : 1,562,500,000,000x

FPSS4 Goku: At most 15,625,000,000,000x w Dragon Fist or Self Destrcution. ( comparable to but definitely inferior to Omega)

Omega : 15,625,000,000,000x

Gogeta: 15,625,000,000,000x
Click to expand...
 
Don't think we have an accepted multiplier for it at the moment.
I think we can deduce that it's superior to x8 considering that Baby Vegeta in SSJ could overpower SSJ3 Goku and Super Baby 2 is basically his SSJ3 form.
 
We don't have an official one yet. We've talked about creating a "bare minimum" as we've done for SSG, but it hasn't been implemented.

Last I checked on the matter, the consensus of that topic in the Discussion thread (though not applicable I think to a Versus thread) was my breakdown of events, which I'll quote.

"So, Goku goes all the way to SSJ3 to fight SSJ Baby Vegeta, and BV has advantage. Then, after Goku gets beaten down, Baby Vegeta goes SSJ2 (Super Baby 1) and SSJ3 (Super Baby 2 is directly said to be in direct resemblance to SSJ3). That's 3200x the SSJ3 buff, or 160,000x off the bat. Then Goku becomes the Golden Oozaru and stomps SB2, and then goes SSJ4. However, the important thing to note is when BABY goes Golden Oozaru, Goku as a SSJ4 is still as powerful as him. (Though slightly weaker/at disadvantage). Meaning that the process of becoming SSJ4 after Golden Oozaru gives a power boost roughly as equivalent to going Golden Oozaru in itself? Which is insane to me."
 
So for Goku, he starts at Base (We'll just put this at "1"). He has to ramp up to 400x to reach Baby Vegeta, who is at just Super Saiyan. Baby then goes SSJ2, (2x Baby Vegeta, also equal to 800x since Baby Vegeta is above SSJ3), and then Baby goes SSJ3/Super Baby 2, which is 4x that (which is equal to 3200x). This in itself is just to get the chain from Baby Vegeta to SB2's strength and how SSJ3 compares.

Then, accounting for the fact "Baby Vegeta" is in itself SSJ, and that Golden Oozaru is a "separate species" (and amplifies directly from Base Power, not amplifying the prior form to a higher level like how SSJ2 is "2x SSJ1") to achieve where SB2 is at, you have to apply an additional 50x multiplier to cover the gap of that form relative to Goku's Base. So 3200x SSJ3, and 160,000 at the full total.

On top of that, SSJ4 makes Goku even more powerful, and Baby achieving his own Golden Oozaru form put him relative/slightly ahead Goku's own SSJ4 (except Baby did so on his permanently SSJ3 body, so the multiplier would probably be greater relative to his base? Not that it matters since Goku isn't a Tuffle Golden Oozaru and that's only speculative anyway) which means the gap between Golden Oozaru and SSJ4 is in itself as wide as the gap between Golden Oozaru and the previous forms/base. So multiply Golden Oozaru on itself and you get the bare minimum amp SSJ4 provided Goku within the confines of the Baby Saga.

Unless I got something wrong here.
 
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Adem_Warlock69 said:
This is the GT scaling chain that was used in the GT Goku vs Super Goku thread.
Click to expand...
And that was ToP Manga Goku with access to UI wasn't it? I've managed to scale him in that form to 512 trillion even with the Beyond God stuff being applied. But tbh the Ultra Instinct multiplier I've managed to calculate hasn't been validated yet in a CRT or anything.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Then, accounting for the fact "Baby Vegeta" is in itself SSJ, and that Golden Oozaru is a "separate species" (and amplifies directly from Base Power, not amplifying the prior form to a higher level like how SSJ2 is "2x SSJ1") to achieve where SB2 is at, you have to apply an additional 50x multiplier to cover the gap of that form relative to Goku's Base. So 3200x SSJ3, and 160,000 at the full total.
Click to expand...
This part I don't get.
Golden Oozaru Goku is stronger than SB2, so he'd only need to be 3200x Base Goku to reach SB2's level. (That's where SB2 is in comparison to Base Goku).
I don't see why we'd add a x50 over SB2, we're starting the scaling chain with Base Goku, a hypothetical Base Baby Vegeta would just be x8 Base Goku.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
This part I don't get.
Golden Oozaru Goku is stronger than SB2, so he'd only need to be 3200x Base Goku to reach SB2's level. (That's where SB2 is in comparison to Base Goku).
I don't see why we'd add a x50 over SB2, we're starting the scaling chain with Base Goku, a hypothetical Base Baby Vegeta would just be x8 Base Goku.
Click to expand...
Well, one, what I already referenced, but two, the reason the Golden Oozaru form works is because it "draws out the latent/dormant power within." This method of limit breaking is superior to Baby's when he possessing Saiyans, (at least from what I recall, meaning it should be stronger), which is why he needed to combine them to achieve a form "Stronger" than Goku, and even then the advantage wasn't too much considering Goku was incredibly drained untll he became a Full Power SSJ4. (Which means this ludicrous amp in itself isn't the full berth of SSJ4's increase, though admittedly Baby was also tired, and when they were both maxed out they were comparable with Goku having the edge.)

That said, you aren't wrong in saying it's a larger leap than the already pretty solid powerscaling, so we could just nix the 50x. With that in mind it puts SSJ4 at 10.24 million times Base. Additionally, Gogeta would be stronger than the Goku who went into his Fusion, which was within the Super Full Power SSJ4 state, a 10x (or more?) multiplier on normal SSJ4, and GT's Cast scales to the 2-C feat of their own continuity in Base like Super's cast.

So really it'd just be who upscales from their Macrocosm Destroying feat more.
 
this feels like a stomp for Gogeta.

Like Gogeta also has RE/energy absorption in SSJ4, so he can basically absorb every ki blast from Cabba and further amp himself, and has both Goku's and Vegeta's skill.

You could've just switched this to SSJ4 Vegeta and Cabba so Cabba wouldn't get AP stomped anyway
 
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Im sure any SSJ4 would have an higher scaling chain than Cabba does last time I checked SSJ4 Goku by the SD arc had an equivalent scaling to pre UIS Blue Goku
 
I just realized that even if Gogeta defuses, Cabba will still have to fight two SSJ4 who still have the same RE and RPL, and even individually, Goku and Vegeta as SSJ4 still have an AP advantage, and they can 2v1 cabba.

This is unfair for my boi, Cabba. 😭
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Don't think we have an accepted multiplier for it at the moment.
I think we can deduce that it's superior to x8 considering that Baby Vegeta in SSJ could overpower SSJ3 Goku and Super Baby 2 is basically his SSJ3 form.
Click to expand...
at least x10

SSJ4 ~ Golden Great Ape Baby > (10x) SBV2 >>> Base Baby Vegeta > SSJ3.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I can't remember the exact values right now so I'll just spitball.

Goku absorbed the power of God into his Super Saiyan state, fighting at a similar level as his God form against Beerus
Then as stated in the blog linked on his profile he then further broke his limits to overcome Beerus' Dense Energy Ball
And as we see later on, Base Goku is stated/depicted as being at the level of his previous God state
Overall that would put post-BoG Base Goku at >50x 2-C

After that we see Vegeta state Cabba matches him in base form and then they both go Super Saiyan so during the U6 Tournament:
Base Cabba/Vegeta - >50x 2-C​
SS1 Cabba/Vegeta -> 2,500x 2-C​
SSB Vegeta - >400,000,000x 2-C​

Then during the Goku Black arc, Base Black is superior to SSB Vegeta, attains Super Saiyan Rose (Which should be an 8,000,000x multiplier like Blue) and is then later stomped by SSB Vegeta after he trained in the HTC.
Base Black/Vegeta - >400,000,000 2-C​
SS1 Vegeta - >20,000,000,000x 2-C​
SSGSS Black/Vegeta - >3,200,000,000,000,000x 2-C​

Base Cabba then should be relative to the likes of Caulifla who could fight SS2 Goku with SS2. His profile also scales him to being at least somewhat comparable to Vegeta during the ToP.
Base Cabba - >400,000,000 2-C​
SS1 Cabba - >20,000,000,000x 2-C​
SS2 Cabba - >40,000,000,000x 2-C​

So thus far ToP Cabba seems to be 400 million times 2-C and in his strongest form he is over 40 billion times 2-C.
Click to expand...
post HTC BASE Vegeta being > his previous Blue is a bit.... off.

Rose has a guide making it equivalent to SSJ for the anime continuity (which also makes a lot more sense than Vegeta getting SSB level gains out of nowhere).


meaning that by the HTC Vegeta got >SSJ level gains not more.

I am also questioning the SD Base Goku/Nuova > Rage Shenron > previous SSJ4 scaling as well.

not that it affects the outcome of this fight tho.
 
Ok you have your point

(power creep didn't get nearly that ridiculous until the ToP tho).

I may add tho that half of these 2-Cs became 2-Cs by scaling to present day Base or SSJ rather than God Forms. it is an odd distinction yep but they haven't literally gotten Blue tier gains out of nowhere (Broly, Frieza and Gohan are mutants. and Piccolo got them after a wish I won't talk about 17 ) Roshi isn't rated 2-C and neither should Krillin be tbh
 
Omegas03 said:
Ok you have your point

(power creep didn't get nearly that ridiculous until the ToP tho).
Click to expand...
Piccolo is already 2-C by the U6 Tournament lol
Omegas03 said:
I may add tho that half of these 2-Cs became 2-Cs by scaling to present day Base or SSJ rather than God Forms. it is an odd distinction yep but they haven't literally gotten Blue tier gains out of nowhere (Broly, Frieza and Gohan are mutants. and Piccolo got them after a wish I won't talk about 17 ) Roshi isn't rated 2-C and neither should Krillin be tbh
Click to expand...
It is an odd distinction because:
Goku absorbed God into SS1​
Then broke his limits which made his base form equivalent to SSG​
So Goku made an SSG x 50 leap in BoG​
Yet Piccolo is already at that 2-C level of power by the Universe 6 tournament​

Which is an SSB-level leap. SSG x 50.
 
I'll concede that the distinction is odd, you're right that DBS power creep has always been like this

It's just that say, Goku getting Blue tier increases (by literally gaining Blue from already SSG level base) in RoF, impacts way harder than Piccolo getting blue tier increases (by going from nearly fodder tier to post god Base/SSJ Goku tier).

Anyways I do still disagree with Base post HTC Vegeta being > his previous Blue bc of Rose being = to SSJ rather than Blue in the Anime.
 
Omegas03 said:
Rose has a guide making it equivalent to SSJ for the anime continuity (which also makes a lot more sense than Vegeta getting SSB level gains out of nowhere).
.
Click to expand...
Iirc, the guide called it black's special super saiyan form and the form allows one fight a super Saiyan blue, it'd an SSB amp just like the manga
 
Gogeta scales to 3 universes while cabba scales to 2 based on the recent canon downgrade

So gogeta stomps pretty much
 
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