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The Writer Downgrade/Overvoid Upgrade

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TBH I wouldn't mind if it that removed, at best it should be a civilization profile from a glance.
 
Narrator said:
I also agree that the DC Comics “God” profile is completely unnecessary, you can’t treat clearly different entities as if they were a single one.
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It's more like the opposite.

The Source and the Overvoid are like, the exact same thing, or at least they're equivalent. But "God" in the context of what Grant Morrison was talking about IS the Overvoid. There is no superior form of The Presence that should be seen as High 1-A or equivalent. It's always the Source / The Overvoid. The added key in The Presence's profile is rather redundant, as is the profile of God itself.
 
I think I expressed myself wrong sorry, what I meant is that the DC “God” profile makes The Overvoid, The Presence and The Source looks like they are part of one bigger entity like some strange Godhead
 
Didn't Death Metal (or however the current run with Perpetua is called) said that The Presence and The Source are the same thing?
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
It's more like the opposite.

The Source and the Overvoid are like, the exact same thing, or at least they're equivalent. But "God" in the context of what Grant Morrison was talking about IS the Overvoid. There is no superior form of The Presence that should be seen as High 1-A or equivalent. It's always the Source / The Overvoid. The added key in The Presence's profile is rather redundant, as is the profile of God itself.
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That's not possible. The Source is an infinite energy that sits in the center of the Greater Omniverse which is the collection of multiverses on the Overvoid. Meaning The Source exist on the Overvoid. And by the Overvoids nature, everything that exist exist on it is apart of it's consciousness. Therefore it's literally impossible for The Source to be equivalent to it.
 
A lot of things are Beyond the Source Wall including an infinite amount of multiverses..
zRaTIw6_K8Cw9piky6MlxBT83Dxw9IgruyJhwuNqEzcIiLYjQhiwEGAHyPmPNgjICGJCw8enRbIJhCKW-9Qiks5WAmMUA7elGatpbHjKYYeiI1O6h7ER38woqNu-gwszVe3poeIKLA=s1600

The Source is explicitly stated to be at the center of the Omniverse, ´pretty sure this has been common knowledge by now. Also in the current run Overvoid and Source are never named as the same thing in fact they are always named separately. Giving that the Source exists at the center of the Overvoid it being the same thing is highly unlikely (at least in the current canon, in the past canons that is more likely the case)
 
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the "Greater Omniverse" referes to the other Multiverses that exist within the Overvoid, such as the one created by Lucifer

The Source is also what created Perpetua, who explicidly originated from outside of creation
 
Okay so the other multiverses beyond The Source Wall like I stated.

No one here said anything about Perpetua and she isnt relevant to the thread.

Also I support the Profile for God being deleted and The Writer's downgrade.
 
People have been arguing for the God profile to be deleted ever since it was made, and there are good reasons on this thread so I'm for deleting it as well.

Neutral on The Writer's tier.
 
Yeah same. If the only reason he's tier 0 is just because "People think he is tier 0" and that he is superior to Overvoid, I'm all in for the downgrade.
 
MikeBro25 said:
Might as well downgrade the Creator from the Anime Show
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I assume you are talking about Umineko, no? If so, The Creator from Umineko has more proof, I believe, than simply being "Superior to H1A character". It's a bit more indepth than that.

Also, this isn't a Umineko thread, if you have a problem with the ratings, go make a thread about it.
 
Basically, DC bad

On a serious note, the OP is purposing a downgrade to The Writer because he isn't infinitely superior to The Overvoid, because its the actual paper that writers draw on, and the writers aren't transcendental over it. As such, he shouldn't be Tier 0.

edit: ninja'd =c
 
H1A sounds nicer.

What is the main reason they are Tier 0, anyways? Is there like a H1A hierarchy or smth?
 
I would wait for @Ultima_Reality to reply here, in the meantime, if my conception on how 0 works is correct, aka, this, is correct:
Bobsican said:
For Writer to be 0, it would have to be infinitely beyond any hierarchy made by stuff in the level of Overvoid, while also being infinitely beyond any cardinal that would be infinitely beyond that, which is seemingly unfounded beyond Writer simply using Overvoid as a way to do the plot for stuff that's below.
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Scaling Overvoid to Writer out of being in the same level would be silly, there wouldn't be anything to support either being 0 anymore out of relying on circular scaling on that regard, so to remain consistent on this it would be best to just turn both into High 1-A (Both of them are on the same level, at least tier wise (Writer is simply above baseline), the gap between High 1-A and 0 covers more than the sort of gap between 1-A to High 1-A, as said before), as 0 wouldn't be supported enought beyond sheer possibility out of not meeting the criteria for being at that level, in simple terms.

Also, I agree with the God profile being removed.
 
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Matthew_Schroeder said:
It's more like the opposite.

The Source and the Overvoid are like, the exact same thing, or at least they're equivalent. But "God" in the context of what Grant Morrison was talking about IS the Overvoid. There is no superior form of The Presence that should be seen as High 1-A or equivalent. It's always the Source / The Overvoid. The added key in The Presence's profile is rather redundant, as is the profile of God itself.
Click to expand...
Well, it's pretty clear that The Source = The Presence. When Mr. Miracle was at the Gates of Heaven he felt The Source behind them, Cronus stated that the Godwave is the power of The Presence, Zeus equated Spectre's God (i.e The Presence) to The Source, and in Dark Nights: Dark Metal #1 it was stated that "They (Super Celestials) do this using Connective Energy, born of The Presence, of The Source".
 
The connection between The Source and The Presence is actually very inconsistent. Especially when you understand how the system of belief works for being of the Sphere of Gods.

Also that's not what Zeus said. Zeus said "Why? Each(creation myth) merely interprets in their own fashion what actually happened. So all are true."
7617274-0140253689-103_1.jpg


And the only one who could possibly defy these interpretations and present itself as the original was The Source. Meaning all denizens of the Sphere of Gods have their own creation myths that are just reinterpretations of what actually happened, being The Source created everything.

The main focus of this story was on the Spectre asserting his religious beliefs above everyone else's because he believed that all could not be true. Hence why he kept referring to The Presence as this supreme being beyond all other Gods, something none of the other denizens of the Sphere of Gods shared as evident from his argument with the Oshiras. The Oshiras openly didn't even know who The Presence was and in their myth, Mawu is the supreme being and is the one who created everything. Showcasing that other denizens of the Sphere of Gods have their own interpretations of how creation began and typically don't recognize the other myths created by the other beings from the sphere like The Presence.

The whole point of that issue was to basically say all religious beliefs are equal and there is no better Gods since their myths are all valid interpretations of the truth. If you got that The Presence was the supreme being out of this issue than you completely missed the point and I recommend you read it again.

There is also a direct scan from Metron where he saids The Source cannot be encompassed by words like "Heaven" and "God." And obviously Metron is much more intelligent and credible than Mr. Miracle. Which once again highlights this contradiction.
7616137-6036573537-76158.gif
 
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Xearesay said:
The connection between The Source and The Presence is actually very inconsistent. Especially when you understand how the system of belief works for being of the Sphere of Gods.

Also that's not what Zeus said. Zeus said "Why? Each(creation myth) merely interprets in their own fashion what actually happened. So all are true."
7617274-0140253689-103_1.jpg


And the only one who could possibly defy these interpretations and present itself as the original was The Source. Meaning all denizens of the Sphere of Gods have their own creation myths that are just reinterpretations of what actually happened, being The Source created everything.

The main focus of this story was on the Spectre asserting his religious beliefs above everyone else's because he believed that all could not be true. Hence why he kept referring to The Presence as this supreme being beyond all other Gods, something none of the other denizens of the Sphere of Gods shared as evident from his argument with the Oshiras. The Oshiras openly didn't even know who The Presence was and in their myth, Mawu is the supreme being and is the one who created everything. Showcasing that other denizens of the Sphere of Gods have their own interpretations of how creation began and typically don't recognize the other myths created by the other beings from the sphere like The Presence.

The whole point of that issue was to basically say all religious beliefs are equal and there is no better Gods since their myths are all valid interpretations of the truth. If you got that The Presence was the supreme being out of this issue than you completely missed the point and I recommend you read it again.

There is also a direct scan from Metron where he saids The Source cannot be encompassed by words like "Heaven" and "God." And obviously Metron is much more intelligent and credible than Mr. Miracle. Which once again highlights this contradiction.
7616137-6036573537-76158.gif
Click to expand...
▪ No, it's not inconsistent. There are lots of evidence from different eras (from 1992 to 2020) for this.

▪ Zeus clearly equated The Source to The Presence.

"Still, there is the one above all. How else was formed the planet of the Elder Gods? Who or what could have summoned them forth?"

"Hmmm. That might well be The Source."

There's also this thing

"Within The Source...

...The nearest to it was the brightness of the Gates of Heaven!"

This statement supports the Mr. Miracle thing (when he was at the Gates of Heaven he felt The Source behind them).

And after that it was heavily implied that The Source and The Presence are aspects of "The God".

▪ Well, these statements don't contradict each other, because The Source exists beyond the Heaven, so by that logic he can't be encompassed by words like Heaven, but Mr. Miracle thing shows us that they're clearly different aspects of "The God", see my point above for this. Also, The Presence isn't bound to the Heaven, his plan encompasses everything in the Creation, and even Lucifer can go beyond the Destiny's Book which contains everything in the Creation.
 
There's literally one scan and it's completely counteracted by numerous other pieces of information.

That's not Zeus equating The Source to The Presence. That's Zeus answering the Spectre on what might be original creation story that all the other creation myths(like The Presences) reinterpret. Which he saids "could be The Source since it has defied all other explanation."

His conversation with Zeus was to enlighten him that all other religious creation stories are just reinterpretations of the original and are therefore all true. Hence why there's so many different creation stories from beings in the Sphere of Gods.

The second scan is The Spectre making assumptions. He first assumed it was The Presence and than he assumed it was Michael Demiurgos. Once The Source responded to him and he didn't understand what it was saying. He finally considered it to be neither of these beings and starts demanding The Source to answer his questions. This is because you have to remember, The Specte cannot fully comprehend The Source.

The way the Spectre is behaving in this scene is the equivalent of a kid going to a local mall to meet Santa Claus and finding out that it's actually just some grown man in a suit and not the real Santa. He walked in thinking The Source was The Presence, thinking The Source was Michael, and when he finally realizes that it's not, he starts throwing a fit and demanding it to explain itself.

"I still don't understand! If you are here Lord God, why must I go on? No! I cannot accept this! If you are the one I seek, then tell me! Tell me what became of heaven! If you are not, then tell me who or what you are! Tell me!"

103_15.jpg


The final scan is The Source giving The Spectre what he truly desires which is to know the true nature of God, and then empowering him what it feels like to basically be God. Which doesn't mean The Source is the Presence it means The Source can grant one power that allows one to feel like God.

Like I said before, the entire point of this story was that the Spectre believed the creation myth of the God he worshipped to be the only correct reinterpretation. Despite the fact that all of them are technically true. It's a way for DC to send a message and say everyone can have different religious beliefs and still be equal to one another.

And I forgot to mention this but The Godwave also has a contradictory statement. It's directly said to contain power that seeded all words with divinity and from it came The Gods Earth has come to know and worship. Which would include The Presence since he's one of the Gods worshiped on Earth. Once again, more evidence that this is completely inconsistent.

7616139-0267615519-74694.gif
 
I agree about that The Writer should not transcend The Overvoid to such an extreme degree, but have not seen any valid evidence for The Overvoid transcending the otherwise 1-A characters to anywhere near a Tier 0 degree. In fact, I do not even think that it qualifies as High 1-A, as there is not remotely any 1-A+ hierarchy beneath it.
 
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