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The Witcher 8-C+ upgrades and some stuff to add
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
- Start date
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For me we should separate Geralt before Dr. Mureu's mutations and After that.KLOL506 said:
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That's attack reflection, not AP.Apollodoro055 said:
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
He/Him- 955
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i just realized that the resistance to acid manipulation was added two times
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It's with Quen.
Also, eh, nobody added it to Letho's and Eskel's profile. ._.
Also, eh, nobody added it to Letho's and Eskel's profile. ._.
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Made a Lambert profile
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
He/Him- 955
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good job
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Good job but it could just be named "Lambert", there are no other Lamberts on this wiki 
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Lambert's gonna show up in season 2, and Lambert isn't all that uncommon a name, either, so I figured I may as well give his page a more detailed title
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Good point.
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Geralt got experience criticizing trashy poems by Dandelion, so he should at least be passable.
Amazing job with the Witcher CRTs, but the logic behind removing environmental destruction and Quen being in a much higher tier is weak. Eredin's weather manipulation is even named in the [Enviromental Destruction] page as an example of a feat to not scale to AP.
There needs to be evidence that mages can deliver city-busting energy directly to an opponent.
The argument for Quen doesn't hold up even if we assume mages can do casual 7-B magic blasts; if we say that Quen scales because Lambert used Quen to protect from one of Triss' raining fireballs (which doesn't look 7-B; not every lightning strike in a lightning storm is tier 7) in a cutscene, then in the same cutscene Imlerith tanks a fireball which would be a 7-B physical feat, and Geralt would scale to 7-B physically as well for tangling with Imlerith.
The tabletop RPG (which is canon to the videogame) can give us hints for how Witcher 3 Quen works (A maximum of 7 stamina points can be spent for a witcher sign at a time, and the Geralt hero character has 55 hp and 40 stamina):
Quen (Earth)
Amazing job with the Witcher CRTs, but the logic behind removing environmental destruction and Quen being in a much higher tier is weak. Eredin's weather manipulation is even named in the [Enviromental Destruction] page as an example of a feat to not scale to AP.
There needs to be evidence that mages can deliver city-busting energy directly to an opponent.
The argument for Quen doesn't hold up even if we assume mages can do casual 7-B magic blasts; if we say that Quen scales because Lambert used Quen to protect from one of Triss' raining fireballs (which doesn't look 7-B; not every lightning strike in a lightning storm is tier 7) in a cutscene, then in the same cutscene Imlerith tanks a fireball which would be a 7-B physical feat, and Geralt would scale to 7-B physically as well for tangling with Imlerith.
The tabletop RPG (which is canon to the videogame) can give us hints for how Witcher 3 Quen works (A maximum of 7 stamina points can be spent for a witcher sign at a time, and the Geralt hero character has 55 hp and 40 stamina):
Quen (Earth)
- STA Cost: Variable
- Effect: Quen creates a shield that blocks one attack that you fail to dodge or block for every point of Stamina spent. This shield can block multiple attacks in the same round.
- Range: Self
- Duration: Until exhausted
- Defense: None
- STA Cost: Variable
- Effect: Quen now creates a glowing shield around you. The shield has 10 HP for every Stamina point spent. Every round you must spend 1/2 the initial STA cost to the keep the shield up. Active Shield only covers you, but you can fit one other person into it if you are pressed together. When it is expended or dropped, anything in melee range of you is pushed back 2m and takes 1d6 damage to the torso. This includes objects, furniture, and allies. Anything rooted to the ground or heavier than 226kg is not pushed back but still takes damage.
- Range: Self
- Duration: Active (1/2 Initial STA)
- Defense: Magical Shield
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Eredin drawing in a storm. While this may scale to the magical attack potency of some mages/God Tiers, this shouldn't scale to the physical stats of those in the Witcher. Environmental destruction is applied here due to the lack of reasoning to support this being applied to physical stats.
Well, the page actually agrees with the OP, we didn't scaled them to Tier 7 physically, only their magical pontency
Also, "not looking Tier 7" isn't a valid argument
Well, the page actually agrees with the OP, we didn't scaled them to Tier 7 physically, only their magical pontency
Also, "not looking Tier 7" isn't a valid argument
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Agree with Dante, but I understand where Shadow's coming from. Appearance =/= Attack Potency
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So we all agree Geralt's endurance with Quen is low 7-B?
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Very remarkable, despite he's still a street level character in physical areas, being a 7 tier in endurance via magic is a huge advantage in many battles.
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I think he means urban tier.
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Yep, urban tier.
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>But he has hax to deal with Tier 7 characters
Not really
Not really
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Um... You skipped a main argument, and misrepresented the other.
I misread the environmental destruction page since it only refers to physical capabilities, however this doesn't justify removing the Enviromental Destruction label as the condition is not fulfilled; there is a lack of reasoning to support non-weather manipulation magic attacks being tier 7 for Eredin-level characters. In other words: "There needs to be evidence that mages can deliver city-busting energy directly to an opponent."
The Quen argument is not summed up as "It does not look tier 7"; the statement emphasis that claiming every fireball is tier 7 without evidence is like claiming every single lightning strike in a lightning storm is tier 7 without evidence. The main counterargument is that Imlerith physically tanks a fireball in the same cutscene Lambert guards with Quen., so by assuming that every single fireball in a weather manipulation feat is tier 7 without evidence, then Imlerith and Geralt would physically be at tier 7.
I misread the environmental destruction page since it only refers to physical capabilities, however this doesn't justify removing the Enviromental Destruction label as the condition is not fulfilled; there is a lack of reasoning to support non-weather manipulation magic attacks being tier 7 for Eredin-level characters. In other words: "There needs to be evidence that mages can deliver city-busting energy directly to an opponent."
The Quen argument is not summed up as "It does not look tier 7"; the statement emphasis that claiming every fireball is tier 7 without evidence is like claiming every single lightning strike in a lightning storm is tier 7 without evidence. The main counterargument is that Imlerith physically tanks a fireball in the same cutscene Lambert guards with Quen., so by assuming that every single fireball in a weather manipulation feat is tier 7 without evidence, then Imlerith and Geralt would physically be at tier 7.
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- Thread starter
- #105
I misread the environmental destruction page since it only refers to physical capabilities, however this doesn't justify removing the Enviromental Destruction label as the condition is not fulfilled; there is a lack of reasoning to support non-weather manipulation magic attacks being tier 7 for Eredin-level characters. In other words: "There needs to be evidence that mages can deliver city-busting energy directly to an opponent."
First of all it is not only Eredin who can create storms. A random NPC from Skellige can create a huge storm while Geralt protects him from monsters. We are not scaling everyone to Low 7-B because of Eredin but because even a random mage could do a similar feat.
Everything a mage do is magic based. Literally al spells. If a random mage from Skellige can do this via magic, powerful mages like Yennefer and Triss should also be able to do the same not only with storm spells but other different types of magic.
The Quen argument is not summed up as "It does not look tier 7"; the statement emphasis that claiming every fireball is tier 7 without evidence is like claiming every single lightning strike in a lightning storm is tier 7 without evidence. The main counterargument is that Imlerith physically tanks a fireball in the same cutscene Lambert guards with Quen., so by assuming that every single fireball in a weather manipulation feat is tier 7 without evidence, then Imlerith and Geralt would physically be at tier 7.
Wrong. First of all your scaling with Imlerith is wrong. It makes Quen useless. Look at this
Of course we can create scalings to put some chatacters comparable to the Low 7-B magic but that's completely wrong for the reasons I've stated above. It doesn't matter if Imlerith tanked this magic attack, wich is Low 7-B. That's an outlier. Simple
First of all it is not only Eredin who can create storms. A random NPC from Skellige can create a huge storm while Geralt protects him from monsters. We are not scaling everyone to Low 7-B because of Eredin but because even a random mage could do a similar feat.
Everything a mage do is magic based. Literally al spells. If a random mage from Skellige can do this via magic, powerful mages like Yennefer and Triss should also be able to do the same not only with storm spells but other different types of magic.
The Quen argument is not summed up as "It does not look tier 7"; the statement emphasis that claiming every fireball is tier 7 without evidence is like claiming every single lightning strike in a lightning storm is tier 7 without evidence. The main counterargument is that Imlerith physically tanks a fireball in the same cutscene Lambert guards with Quen., so by assuming that every single fireball in a weather manipulation feat is tier 7 without evidence, then Imlerith and Geralt would physically be at tier 7.
Wrong. First of all your scaling with Imlerith is wrong. It makes Quen useless. Look at this
- Imlerith tanked a Low 7-B attack (magic from Triss)
- Geralt and Lambert needed to use Quen to protect themselves from Triss' magic
- Geralt fought Imlerith
Of course we can create scalings to put some chatacters comparable to the Low 7-B magic but that's completely wrong for the reasons I've stated above. It doesn't matter if Imlerith tanked this magic attack, wich is Low 7-B. That's an outlier. Simple
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A random druid can do weather-manipulation feats; this does not imply that high level druids can do 7-B magic blasts/fireballs/lasers.M3X said:
I also did not claim that only Eredin can do weather manipulation, but that Eredin-level characters (which includes reputable mages) do not have non-weather manipulation tier 7 feats or statements we can calc.
The most straight-forward and obvious explanation is that the fireball is not tier 7; likewise individual lightning bolts in a lightning storms are not tier 7. If Quen is scalable to tier 7 using the cutscene, then Imlerith is scalable to tier 7 by the same cutscene.M3X said:
If Active Quen prevented Geralt and Lambert from getting injured and protected them from heat then it is not useless; there is no dichotomy between (This forcefield is completely useless) and (Without this forecefield I would be completely vaporized by an attack several tiers above me). It only means that Active Quen is comparable to Imlerith guarding with his shield (which is not useless, unless the opponent is fast and gets around it).
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- Thread starter
- #107
A random druid can do weather-manipulation feats; this does not imply that high level druids can do 7-B magic blasts/fireballs/lasers.
I also did not claim that only Eredin can do weather manipulation, but that Eredin-level characters (which includes reputable mages) do not have non-weather manipulation tier 7 feats or statements we can calc.
You misread somethings. First of all, yes, it does imply that high-level Mages can do Low 7-B magic using another spell. It was never stated that weather manipulation was their strongest magic. Triss, a high-level mage attacked a group of members of the Wild Hunt with one of the strongest members (Imlerith). Your point that she can't do the same with another spells, cool, based in what? The energy she put on a Low 7-B attack would be the same using another attack. That's called magic. And the wiki already accept this kind of assumption.
Your Eredin part of the text confirms what I am saying. Nothing said that they can use the same energy for normal spells, correct. But where it said the opposite? I mean, it is a two side argument here. It wasn't stated they can, and it wasn't stated they can't. But everything show they can
The most straight-forward and obvious explanation is that the fireball is not tier 7; likewise individual lightning bolts in a lightning storms are not tier 7. If Quen is scalable to tier 7 using the cutscene, then Imlerith is scalable to tier 7 by the same cutscene.
If Active Quen prevented Geralt and Lambert from getting injured and protected them from heat then it is not useless; there is no dichotomy between (This forcefield is completely useless) and (Without this forecefield I would be completely vaporized by an attack several tiers above me). It only means that Active Quen is comparable to Imlerith guarding with his shield (which is not useless, unless the opponent is fast and gets around it).
And... wrong again. You can't just understand that Imlerith isn't a Tier 7 character or whatever you are thinking. Imlerith is Geralt level character, potrayed to be on this level. He tanked a Low 7-B attack. What should we call that? The famous Outlier on its pure form.
If Quen is scalable to tier 7 using the cutscene, then Imlerith is scalable to tier 7 by the same cutscene
Association Fallacy. Quen has no anti-feats that contradict its Low 7-B tier. Imlerith isn't a Tier 7 character. Want to know why? Check the reasons below
Oh, good that you mentioned the heat of the attack. The heat of Triss' attack couldn't do nothing to Imlerith's armor, but Igni could damage it? (You can see the heat thst igni did was almost enough to melt it). And even damage Imlerith. This make Igni > Triss' magic. But this is impossible given that on every source, signals are called "simple magic" that doesn't need an amount of power like Mages magic. It doesn't make any sense.
You ate just using inconsistencies as an argument
I also did not claim that only Eredin can do weather manipulation, but that Eredin-level characters (which includes reputable mages) do not have non-weather manipulation tier 7 feats or statements we can calc.
You misread somethings. First of all, yes, it does imply that high-level Mages can do Low 7-B magic using another spell. It was never stated that weather manipulation was their strongest magic. Triss, a high-level mage attacked a group of members of the Wild Hunt with one of the strongest members (Imlerith). Your point that she can't do the same with another spells, cool, based in what? The energy she put on a Low 7-B attack would be the same using another attack. That's called magic. And the wiki already accept this kind of assumption.
Your Eredin part of the text confirms what I am saying. Nothing said that they can use the same energy for normal spells, correct. But where it said the opposite? I mean, it is a two side argument here. It wasn't stated they can, and it wasn't stated they can't. But everything show they can
- Weather spells were never stated to be the strongest - since even a random NPC could do one
- Everything depend on the power you put in a spell. Triss had no reason to hold back while attacking
The most straight-forward and obvious explanation is that the fireball is not tier 7; likewise individual lightning bolts in a lightning storms are not tier 7. If Quen is scalable to tier 7 using the cutscene, then Imlerith is scalable to tier 7 by the same cutscene.
If Active Quen prevented Geralt and Lambert from getting injured and protected them from heat then it is not useless; there is no dichotomy between (This forcefield is completely useless) and (Without this forecefield I would be completely vaporized by an attack several tiers above me). It only means that Active Quen is comparable to Imlerith guarding with his shield (which is not useless, unless the opponent is fast and gets around it).
And... wrong again. You can't just understand that Imlerith isn't a Tier 7 character or whatever you are thinking. Imlerith is Geralt level character, potrayed to be on this level. He tanked a Low 7-B attack. What should we call that? The famous Outlier on its pure form.
If Quen is scalable to tier 7 using the cutscene, then Imlerith is scalable to tier 7 by the same cutscene
Association Fallacy. Quen has no anti-feats that contradict its Low 7-B tier. Imlerith isn't a Tier 7 character. Want to know why? Check the reasons below
- Damaged by Geralt's blows (Geralt is 8-C+)
- Armor got damaged by Igni (8-C+)
- He hasn't enough strengh to combat Aard (Above Geralt's 8-C+ rating)
- Potrayed to be inferior than Eredin, who was beaten by Geralt
Oh, good that you mentioned the heat of the attack. The heat of Triss' attack couldn't do nothing to Imlerith's armor, but Igni could damage it? (You can see the heat thst igni did was almost enough to melt it). And even damage Imlerith. This make Igni > Triss' magic. But this is impossible given that on every source, signals are called "simple magic" that doesn't need an amount of power like Mages magic. It doesn't make any sense.
You ate just using inconsistencies as an argument
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The justification for giving them Low 7-B can also be found on ED page
"These feats share an energy source and relative potency to other magical abilities, merely spreading that potency over a wider range. "
Take for example Triss's Hailstorm, it is stated to be a powerful spell that creates such event, and for that, Triss needs enough energy to use it and cast it, it's something that she has Magic Power to do, that's why it scales to her ranged attacks, they having Tier 7 descruction or not is irrelevant via our standards
"These feats share an energy source and relative potency to other magical abilities, merely spreading that potency over a wider range. "
Take for example Triss's Hailstorm, it is stated to be a powerful spell that creates such event, and for that, Triss needs enough energy to use it and cast it, it's something that she has Magic Power to do, that's why it scales to her ranged attacks, they having Tier 7 descruction or not is irrelevant via our standards
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Imlerith can't be above High 8-C, he can't take a low 7-B attack, unless there is an inconsistency here, that's the case I guess, but I can't say the same about Quen's feats, which is really possible to have a low 7-B endurance.
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But post mutation Geralt is still a lot weaker than an higher vampire of course, Dettlaff should be definitely above Geralt's status, he was able to harm him thank the silver sword, but I bet he would do nothing to Dettlaff with just his fists.
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The fight against a higher vampire was incredible difficult for Geralt, it's quite obvious according with the lore, and we can surely say Geralt have to use potions and always a silver sword to fight an higher vampire. That's not the case against a Bruxa, which is a step below a true higher vampire, in that case, Geralt is not necessarily forced to use a potion to boost himself, like we saw in "A night to remember" or in B&W, we can clearly see how Geralt is capable enough to fight even two Bruxas at the same time. An higher vampire should be a step above Geralt, or at least above Geralt without potions.
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I don't think so
Sure they are comparable, but Geralt clearly defeated Dettlaff in his most powerful form on a 1x1, since Regis was out of the battle
Sure they are comparable, but Geralt clearly defeated Dettlaff in his most powerful form on a 1x1, since Regis was out of the battle
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We can say Geralt is kinda similar to a higher vampire with potions, which means a good High 8-C, but somehow slower.Dante Demon Killah said:
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