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The Velvet Room Discussion Thread

If we scale the mechanics of the TV World to cognition, then it's the same as his AP: Town-level. That's the case even in his Low 2-C key.

Honestly, only the P5 cast has any notable level of hax. Since their cognition scales directly to their AP in most cases, which caps out at Universal+.
 
Look guys i truly believe Joker is stronger than Makoto just because if they both fight they will have their strongest personas; the messiah vs joker's raoul from persona 5 the royal or even if he's limited to satanael he haxes with the seven deadly sins which are ailments that you can't do anything about even in game, even with the universe arcana o can't see makoto winning this, especially seeing as he couldn't kill nyx who was universal+ he had to seal her while joker could kill yaldabaoth who is definitely comparable
 
Sinful Shell doesn't inflict ailments. It's an almighty attack. And Yaldabaoth is by no means even remotely comparable to Nyx, outside of things like hax. I'm not going to get involved with these "Protag vs Protag" discussions, because frankly, I don't care and it'd just be another complete mess. But your argument doesn't make much sense.
 
Nooo yours doesn't make any sense dude all final bosses in persona games are god tier dude stop being biased how are they not comaparable and they are on the same tier plus yaldabaoth is more hax you p3 fanboys are going too far
 
DarkGrath said:
Sinful Shell doesn't inflict ailments. It's an almighty attack. And Yaldabaoth is by no means even remotely comparable to Nyx, outside of things like hax. I'm not going to get involved with these "Protag vs Protag" discussions, because frankly, I don't care and it'd just be another complete mess. But your argument doesn't make much sense.
Click to expand...
Read up on it's created from the seven deadly sins regardless which are ailments yaldabaoth used against the team dude play the game
 
Yes, in fact, I have played the games.

Nyx is far stronger than Yaldabaoth due to scaling. Nyx is far stronger in AP than Makoto with the Universe Arcana, who's far stronger than the Nyx Avatar, who's far stronger than Makoto with Armageddon, who's notably stronger than the End-Game SEES members, who're notably stronger than the Late-Game Makoto Yuki, who's a bit stronger than the Velvet Room Attendants

Yaldabaoth, comparatively, in his best feat is far stronger than the Velvet Room attendants.

In an ideal world, I'd say that all final bosses and all protagonists and the like are all equal. But the scaling between them is far too absurd to ever argue that Nyx is comparable to Yaldabaoth. And the fact that they are "both final bosses" doesn't prove anything.

Read the scaling chain here if this is still confusing.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DarkGrath/Persona_3-5_Scaling_Chai

Also, while Sinful Shell May be created by the Seven Deadly Sins, which Yaldabaoth can use as attacks, in-game Sinful Shell is explicitly an Almighty attack and does not bear the properties of any of Yaldabaoth's ailments. That's a Conceptual Manipulation feat, not an ailment one.

Again, I don't really care about this debate. But I don't particularly like seeing misinformation spread.
 
Soo done with vs wiki wanking makoto to the moon and back nyx had to heal after crashing into earth yet it's stronger than taldy that's literal bull
 
Daily reminder that Joker kicked Kirito's ass in 4-A.

Actually, Yusuke might've been a fairer match.
 
Pretty sure the Reaper is fodder for any of the playable final bosses throughout the games, so that isn't really impressive.
 
There isn't really much indication of when the Reaper fights the protagonists, or if they even do so at all. So the Reaper is borderline featless.
 
Well, 4-A is probably the closest thing to an accurate tier for it, but even then that's presumptuous.

At best, we know that the Reaper fought SEES (since you need to fight SEES to prove that you can fight Elizabeth, and the Elizabeth fight was canon). This also means that they fought the Reaper notably before fighting Elizabeth, which was the point that they became Low 2-C. I think 4-A under this knowledge could be a reliable tier, though I'd like input on that.
 
But shouldn't he to Low 2-C because of the fact that Elizabeth fought him (granted with no Persona or abilities and skills) and nearly won? She did mention she trains in PQ.
 
Hmm... I mean, potentially?

It does need to be noted that like, the vast majority of a Persona users AP and Durability comes from the Persona they use. Characters like Ren Amamiya are upwards of Low 2-C with their Personas, but in situations where they don't have their Personas (like in the real world) they're depicted as being pretty normal humans (like, 9-C at most).

So while I find it believable, I'm not certain we can assume that Elizabeth with all of her Persona powers locked away would still be Low 2-C.
 
The Physical Attacks used without Personas are still affected by Personas. Remember; the physical attacks without Personas increase in damage depending on the Persona's strength stat, so it's heavily dependant on it.

While we can't necessarily use the strength stat in itself as a reliable indicator (since that leans very far into game mechanics), it does at least show that physical attacks without Personas are still affected by the Persona's themselves. So if Elizabeth had no Personas, then her AP with normal attacks would be far lower.
 
Potentially. Either way though; the guns only work due to cognition, and they're entirely separate from the Persona user's body. So it'd still not scale to their natural AP.

It'd probably not be necessary, but if the Persona casts had "without Personas" keys, they'd probably be 10-A to 9-C at best.
 
If they ever get a real world key, they're pretty much featless except for Ren who has a few abilities. But his strength, ap, speed, etc would be 10-B at best, they're just average high school teenagers in the end and speding time at the gym won't change much.
 
Sae is shown to be great martial artist. Even Makoto who has taken multiple first place rankings in martial arts battles has never beaten her even when she did get them
 
Sae has never shown being a martial artist. While I do recall Makoto stating she's had some sort of practice, never do I remember her taking first place rankings in martial art battles.
 
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