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The Velvet Room Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Solacis
- Start date
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@Thats Damn your right. I forgot.
@Dziga I wonder why.
@Dziga I wonder why.
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This isn't targeted at anyone, just dropping in my two cents.
Why Akechi is an Awesome Character:
Ren, or many of the other Phantom Thieves, could have easily become just like Akechi. Why didn't Ann kill Kamoshida? Why didn't Yusuke seek revenge on Madarame? Why didn't Haru or Joker murder Shido? Why didn't Morgana permenantly abandon the Phantom Thieves? The answer isn't necessarily or wholly that they're better people, but because they had each other to guide them.
1/ Ren had his friends and Morgana to guide him, the velvet room to keep him in check, and less of a grudge than Akechi. Same with the other thieves. Aketchi was abandoned by his father and mother (who commited suicide), forced into the hell of the adoption system, and forsaken by society (whom loved and hated him on a whim and only cared now that he was famous). He is given the power to drive people insane by a godlike being, which would instill a god complex in most individuals. He has no friends and the only people remotly close to him are his enemies. He sees his scumbag father living large, with society activly supporting him. Society isn't worth saving in his eyes. Why should Okumura be spared? He was a murderer worse than him (he simply paid money for kills like a mustache twirling villian). Sae was willing to destroy a kids life to benefit her own. The Phantom Thieves were literally brainwashing people: they will never be the same again.
2/ It is well noted that the Phantom Thieves are not fighting for the good of society or some laudy goal such as that, as least not completly. The jailbreak scene notes that their own sense of justice is the most important, as the public is fickle. Akechi had a goal he was willing to die for (and ultimately did). Adachi did it for the lulz and went to jail. He killed two people for no reason. His redemption came at little personal cost.
3/ Finally why would Akechi team up with the Phantom Thieves? Unlike them, he has no future beyond his revenge. They could easily stop being Phantom Thieves after Shido. Once Shido confesses he would either lose everything he has built up or be forced back into his fake role; being a prim, proper and happy celebrity. Any thoughts of being friends with the group was gone a long time ago. At this point it would only be seen as pity because he has wronged them so much. Especially since he has never felt any true compassion his whole life.
Why Akechi is an Awesome Character:
Ren, or many of the other Phantom Thieves, could have easily become just like Akechi. Why didn't Ann kill Kamoshida? Why didn't Yusuke seek revenge on Madarame? Why didn't Haru or Joker murder Shido? Why didn't Morgana permenantly abandon the Phantom Thieves? The answer isn't necessarily or wholly that they're better people, but because they had each other to guide them.
1/ Ren had his friends and Morgana to guide him, the velvet room to keep him in check, and less of a grudge than Akechi. Same with the other thieves. Aketchi was abandoned by his father and mother (who commited suicide), forced into the hell of the adoption system, and forsaken by society (whom loved and hated him on a whim and only cared now that he was famous). He is given the power to drive people insane by a godlike being, which would instill a god complex in most individuals. He has no friends and the only people remotly close to him are his enemies. He sees his scumbag father living large, with society activly supporting him. Society isn't worth saving in his eyes. Why should Okumura be spared? He was a murderer worse than him (he simply paid money for kills like a mustache twirling villian). Sae was willing to destroy a kids life to benefit her own. The Phantom Thieves were literally brainwashing people: they will never be the same again.
2/ It is well noted that the Phantom Thieves are not fighting for the good of society or some laudy goal such as that, as least not completly. The jailbreak scene notes that their own sense of justice is the most important, as the public is fickle. Akechi had a goal he was willing to die for (and ultimately did). Adachi did it for the lulz and went to jail. He killed two people for no reason. His redemption came at little personal cost.
3/ Finally why would Akechi team up with the Phantom Thieves? Unlike them, he has no future beyond his revenge. They could easily stop being Phantom Thieves after Shido. Once Shido confesses he would either lose everything he has built up or be forced back into his fake role; being a prim, proper and happy celebrity. Any thoughts of being friends with the group was gone a long time ago. At this point it would only be seen as pity because he has wronged them so much. Especially since he has never felt any true compassion his whole life.
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Hey boys what's this about everyone being 2-B now
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i personally loved adachi and akechi. For different reasons of course .MattadorProne said:
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You have P1 and P2 to thank for it.ZephyrosOmega said:
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Mhmmm
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well it's "2-B", it really only applies to P1 and P2
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Mostly has to do with Nyx and Yaldy being admins of the CU and what not
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The general gist of it is that anyone or anything able to influence the Collective Unconscious should scale to 2-B, as the CU holds a countless amount of human minds, which are capable of stuff like resetting timelines and giving birth to universes.
ShinyMagicalGirl
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Honestly
I think Nyarly and Philemon, despite also being "Admins" or gods of the Collective Unconsciousness, should be superior to the likes of Yaldy. Why? Well Philemon and Nyarly don't reside in the normal Collective Unconsciousness, but in Kadath Mandala. Someone like Tatsuya, who already ventured into the Collective Unconsciousness and used its power, couldn't even enter it. However, Igor said Maki can by sheer force of will. And Kadath Mandala is Specifically stated to be like a higher realm compared to the rest of the CU (This isn't dimensional tiering, rather it just indicates that everything in here is superior to the normal CU).
So saying Yaldy, an admin of the CU, is 2-B via being comparable to Nyarly and Philemon is kinda like saying Kabba is as powerful as Vegeta because their both Saiyans.
Not all Admins have similar powers, and Nyarlathotep and Philemon should above the rest due to being superior to people comparable to the first humans, who literally made the entire CU and Kadath Mandala.
Also, Tatsuya used the power of the Collective Unconsciousness and his soul to affect the real world. Yet, he couldn't enter Kadath. This means Maki should be superior to him. Yaldy never affected Kadath Mandala, the realm where Philemon and Nyar live in, but he did affect the CU.
So I guess we can still scale Yaldy to 2-B, since he used the power of the Collective Unconsciousness, just like how Tatsuya did. But Yaldy shouldn't be equal to the likes of Maki and Philemon.
I think Nyarly and Philemon, despite also being "Admins" or gods of the Collective Unconsciousness, should be superior to the likes of Yaldy. Why? Well Philemon and Nyarly don't reside in the normal Collective Unconsciousness, but in Kadath Mandala. Someone like Tatsuya, who already ventured into the Collective Unconsciousness and used its power, couldn't even enter it. However, Igor said Maki can by sheer force of will. And Kadath Mandala is Specifically stated to be like a higher realm compared to the rest of the CU (This isn't dimensional tiering, rather it just indicates that everything in here is superior to the normal CU).
So saying Yaldy, an admin of the CU, is 2-B via being comparable to Nyarly and Philemon is kinda like saying Kabba is as powerful as Vegeta because their both Saiyans.
Not all Admins have similar powers, and Nyarlathotep and Philemon should above the rest due to being superior to people comparable to the first humans, who literally made the entire CU and Kadath Mandala.
Also, Tatsuya used the power of the Collective Unconsciousness and his soul to affect the real world. Yet, he couldn't enter Kadath. This means Maki should be superior to him. Yaldy never affected Kadath Mandala, the realm where Philemon and Nyar live in, but he did affect the CU.
So I guess we can still scale Yaldy to 2-B, since he used the power of the Collective Unconsciousness, just like how Tatsuya did. But Yaldy shouldn't be equal to the likes of Maki and Philemon.
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Yeah, I probably should've added on that even though Yaldyis an administrator of the CU, he isn't quite as far into 2-B as Philemon and Nyarly
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Also, I believe it got accepted by Schnee
ShinyMagicalGirl
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Nyx isn't an administrator. She indirectly mindhaxxed the First Humans, and made them create the Collective Unconsciousness.
Then in P2, a guy named Randalph Carter (He is comparable to the First Humans), who was said to be the Legendary Persona user and was able to traverse, manipulate, and alter the entire CU including the higher realm Kadath Mandala, was defeated by Nyarlathotep and got his soul and mind ripped out by Nyarlathotep.
Then in P2, a guy named Randalph Carter (He is comparable to the First Humans), who was said to be the Legendary Persona user and was able to traverse, manipulate, and alter the entire CU including the higher realm Kadath Mandala, was defeated by Nyarlathotep and got his soul and mind ripped out by Nyarlathotep.
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Oops, that was a silly mistake on my end
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Uhh.... No where in the translations is Maki stated to be the "strongest persona user" or even getting into Kadeth. She was described as reaching halfway into that level of reaching into Kadeth, not actually able to transverse it or enter through sheer willpower .. Unless I missed something .
Oh fudge wrong thread. Nice discussion intro though.
Oh fudge wrong thread. Nice discussion intro though.
ShinyMagicalGirl
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"Nevertheless, how can Tatsuya gain the same power as the Persona users who travelled to the world of the collective unconscious? He already has great talent as a Persona user. If one has enough practise, then through their dreams they'll be able to open the door to the depths of their heart; Sonomura Maki was one of these people."
Maki confirmed by Igor to be superior to Tatsuya. Remember, Tatsuya can already use the power of the CU, just not yet Kadath.
"Persona users of old who understood the power of their dreams and could visit the world of the collective unconscious also called it the domain of visions."
Referring to the first humans who created the CU thanks to Nyx.
All from here: https://pastebin.com/uiqvLAcV
Maki confirmed by Igor to be superior to Tatsuya. Remember, Tatsuya can already use the power of the CU, just not yet Kadath.
"Persona users of old who understood the power of their dreams and could visit the world of the collective unconscious also called it the domain of visions."
Referring to the first humans who created the CU thanks to Nyx.
All from here: https://pastebin.com/uiqvLAcV
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any new info on royal so far ?
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Wait a sec, one of Nyarly's servants is in the game now?
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HUH WHATRanzuki said:
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One of Nyarlathotep's servants is confirmed to make an appearance in Royal.
Thank god Hashino finally stops directing the Persona franchise, he is the main reason why we can't get anything out of Persona 1 and 2.
P1 and P2 Dancing here we come bois.
Thank god Hashino finally stops directing the Persona franchise, he is the main reason why we can't get anything out of Persona 1 and 2.
P1 and P2 Dancing here we come bois.
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- Thread starter
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Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but Byakhee is just a new Shadow. It may or may not be the same as the P2 Byakhee, even if they share the same design. At best, we'll have a reference to its original role in its background info, but that's it.
Unless of course, Nyarly actually does show up in P5R. But we can't know for sure just yet.
Although if he does, I'd hate to be the ones editing the scaling if it turns out that the P5 crew ends up actually defeating Nyarly. And with P5 Arena coming eventually, the rest of the series will inevitably end up scaling. Ugh.
Unless of course, Nyarly actually does show up in P5R. But we can't know for sure just yet.
Although if he does, I'd hate to be the ones editing the scaling if it turns out that the P5 crew ends up actually defeating Nyarly. And with P5 Arena coming eventually, the rest of the series will inevitably end up scaling. Ugh.
ShinyMagicalGirl
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If P5 does end up fighting Nyarly, then... They would scale to P1-2's 2-B... Imagine the possibilities!
But yeah, pretty excited for P5R.
But yeah, pretty excited for P5R.
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I really wouldn't mind if the Persona 5 cast and the rest of the modern Persona characters gets scaled up to Nyarly if they actually ended up beating him and not just his avatars especailly if Kasumi is directly involved with Nyarly.
I'm just honestly sick and tired of Katsura Hashino's bullshit for largely ignoring Persona 1 and 2 while making up excuses of not touching them out of "respect". I'm just so ******* glad that he wouldn't be directing the newer Persona games from now on and I certainly wouldn't miss him.
I'm just honestly sick and tired of Katsura Hashino's bullshit for largely ignoring Persona 1 and 2 while making up excuses of not touching them out of "respect". I'm just so ******* glad that he wouldn't be directing the newer Persona games from now on and I certainly wouldn't miss him.
ShinyMagicalGirl
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Me: Hey look, Persona 1 and 2 are pretty good!
Others: What is that non-existent thing?
Me:
Others: What is that non-existent thing?
Me:
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I mean. Is it really that hard to put them on Persona Q or Arena? Or even pay a tribute? If Hashino really respects Tadashi then he shouldn't treat them as non-existent.
What annoyed me more is Hashino tried to bait the old Persona fans with hinting that the Malevolent Entity as Nyarlathotep from voice actor to personality and his nature only to end up being a completely different entity and that just pisses off the older Persona fans even more if anything.
What annoyed me more is Hashino tried to bait the old Persona fans with hinting that the Malevolent Entity as Nyarlathotep from voice actor to personality and his nature only to end up being a completely different entity and that just pisses off the older Persona fans even more if anything.
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I agree, it always seemed off to me how he treated P1 and P2, I really hope some day a new PQ game comes out with characters from the older games.
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I also do hope we won't have that stupid childish graphics now that the Switch is powerful enough to run a proper Persona game unlike the 3DS.Thatsafloridathing said:
And yeah, the chances that the older Persona characters appearing in future titles is a bit higher now that Hashino is gone while it seems like Meguro and Soejima have no problems remaking the Persona 1 and 2 cast like they did before.
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