The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Peter1129]

Also you know what. I’ve been trying to figure out the scaling but if we use that 100x thing than things will get really confusing. I think it’s best we just keep those 5-10x and 100x statement only to the respective movies. So the 5-10x TD boost will be limited to Tiga and Dyna in Warriors of Starlight and the 100x TDG boost should only be limited to Tiga, Dyna, and Gaia during Hyperspace only.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

And putting it like that... think we should do split canons? Or at least on those like Story and Battle in Hyperspace where the events have never been directly related to canon, but still seemingly made to tie with. Something like that.

Oh, I forgot. Since we know now that Shining's extent of time powers indeed include him stopping it as well, think it also scales into his resistance?

 

[Peter1129]

Nah the TDG in Battle in Hyperspace are stated to be the same TDG from the series with the same lvl of power. It’s just that the monsters they fought in the movie will probably be able to scale to the 100x statement about their strength when fighting together.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, I'd suspected as much, but okay then. How will this appear on their profiles, just as an extension on their tiers and AP?

 

[Peter1129]

I don’t think this can be added onto the Ultras profile as it’s a very situational thing. At best if the site allows triple vs battles we can mention how they do have this one statement about their power being increased by 100x when fighting together. But otherwise this is probably something that will be mentioned on King of Mons, Sculla, and Basillis’ profile when they are made.

 

[Peter1129]

Like for example this is how it will look

Sculla AP: 4-A 177.569133288 ExaFoe (Fought Multi-Type Tiga who is stated to be 100x stronger than normal due to fighting alongside Dyna and Gaia)

Basiliss AP: 4-A 177.569133288 ExaFoe (Comparable to Sculla. Can cause some damage to Flash-Type Dyna who is stated to be 100x stronger than normal due to fighting alongside Tiga and Gaia)

King of Mons AP: 3-C 10.6541479973 ZettaFoe (Was able to overpower Gaia V2 who is stated to be 100x stronger than normal due to fighting alongside Tiga and Dyna)

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, that's an interesting result. So, going by this scaling, how far along the Heisei line do the Hyperspace monster trio hold up?

Oh, right, because I got ninja'd earlier:

Oh, I forgot. Since we know now that Shining's extent of time powers indeed include him stopping it as well, think it also scales into his resistance?

 

[Peter1129]

Well based on this

King of Mons would be stronger than Eclipse Mode Cosmos but weaker than Future Mode Cosmos. So outside of the low end for Gloker Bishop and Giga Endra, as well as the 3-Bs and 3-As of the Heisei Era it would be the strongest Heisei monster. Actually wait I just remembered that the summary of the Adventures in Hyperspace novel said a monster that defeated King of Mons rather easily was introduced so nevermind. Though it’s definitely still up there as one of the most powerful monster that nobody really scales to as it’s one of the few 3-Cs in the Heisei Era.

Sculla and Basiliss on the other hand would be above Gaia V2 but below Gaia SV. Which is actually pretty consistent with how they were able to individually overpower Gaia V2 who is 106.541479973 ExaFoe before Tiga and Dyna appeared.

Possibly. Though doesn’t Zero already scale to the countless upon countless layer of time resistance?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, that's pretty modest still. I honestly thought it'd at least reach Nexus. Oh yeah King Gyrares, I think, was the one who was introduced in the novel

Yeah, that's a neat consistency. I'm actually surprised there's been a consistency on the scaling in relation to their on-screen portrayals. That's always been the case since the scaling chain began early this year.

It should I guess? Just making sure since normally time resistance doesn't quite equate to time stop resistance, but since the application universally reaches that much, then I believe it should.

 

[Peter1129]

King of Mons does pass all Nexus characters in raw power outside of Dark Zagi and Noa. But yeah Sculla and Basiliss won’t reach Nexus monster lvl. Space Beasts often fight Junis Nexus in the Meta Field so most of them scale above to or above Gaia SV based on the blog scaling.

Yeah things have been rather consistent based on everything we have compiled.

I see. Well you can probably bring this up on the Ultimate Force Zero CRT once a staff replies. Also speaking of which you‘ve already contacted some staff on their message wall right?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, see, that's about what I expected from a 100x boost.

Yeah, I've contacted Everything12, not sure he's on just yet. But sure, I'll ask around then.

 

[Peter1129]

Anyways since we've decided that the team up power boost only scales to the specific movies that made them this would mean most APs for the Heisei Era stays the same the only changes would be

4-A

106.541479973 ExaFoe:

Goldras is tens of (at least 20) times stronger than Silvergon

Gatanothor is the strongest monster of Ultraman Tiga and therefore stronger than Goldras

TV Finale Glitter Tiga easily defeated Gatanothor

TV Finale Glitter Tiga >> Gatanothor >> Goldras >> 106.541479973 ExaFoe

177.569133288 ExaFoe:

When the TDG team up their power increases by 100x

Sculla and Basiliss can individually overpower Gaia V2

Sculla fought Multi-Type Tiga who is stated to be 100x stronger than normal due to fighting alongside Dyna and Gaia

Sculla = Basiliss > 177.569133288 ExaFoe

532.707399865 ExaFoe:

When Tiga and Dyna join forces their power increases by 5-10x

Tiga during the Warriors of Starlight movie was likely the Glitter Tiga from the TV Finale as they appeared the same way

Queen Monera can keep up with Glitter Tiga and the amped Dyna at the same time and tank their attacks

Queen Monera is the strongest enemy Tiga faced

Alien Dehadoh who controlled Wanzetto was called the strongest alien invader up till the Return of Hanejiro special which takes place after episode 47 of Ultraman Dyna

Zelganoid is the strongest enemy in Ultraman Dyna at the time of its appearance

Neo Gaigareid is the last and strongest Synthetic Sphere Beast

Neo Maxima Cannon on Clarkov NF-3000 one shot Neo Gaigareid

Gransphere is stated to be the strongest enemy of the Neo Frontier Space. And its core blocked the Neo Maxima Cannon.

Gransphere > Clarkov NF-3000 Neo Maxima Cannon >>> Neo Gaigareid > Zelganoid > Wanzetto > Queen Monera > Glitter Tiga (Warriors of Starlight) >> 532.707399865 ExaFoe

3-C

10.6541479973 ZettaFoe:

When the TDG team up their power increases by 100x

King of Mons was able to overpower Gaia V2 who is stated to be 100x stronger than normal due to fighting alongside Tiga and Dyna

Kaiser Gyrares XIII defeated King of Mons

Demon Gyrares XIV is the upgraded version of Kaiser Gyrares XIII

Demon Gyrares XIV > Kaiser Gyrares XIII > King of Mons >> 10.6541479973 ZettaFoe

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Good lord that's some big numbers. Funny thing, I tried doing fake multipliers before, when I still had no idea how the AP system works, and ended up on Galaxy level as well. Funny how it's all coming back once this in particular goes through.

 

[Peter1129]

Everything eventually comes full circle. That’s nice.

But yeah we should also probably decide if the Double Flasher’s 100x multiplier is acceptable. Like the only contradiction I can think of is that Leo and Zero’s Double Flasher didn’t instantly overpower Robot Man and Robot Seven’s individual beams being fired in the same spot in an instant. But it still overpowered them rather quickly so I don’t know if that even counts as a contradiction.

If we don’t count it as a contradiction Beryudora would scale to 50x baseline as even in a weakened state where it was controlled by Rei it could still tank the Double Flasher and a bunch of other finishers before going down.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Maybe TDC will show it again? But I mean, it does look safe to apply for the time being.

 

[Peter1129]

Maybe. But yeah since this affects profiles that have already been made this will need a separate thread. We’ll make a thread with all the other new multipliers we have found once the novel CRT is over.

Inb4 the Double Flasher cancels out Tartarus’ attack in UGF3 and the very next episode we see Tartarus pull off a baseline 2-C feat which therefore means all the current Low 2-Cs in the series are 1/100 baseline 2-C whatever that means.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Will the abilities also be included or is that gonna be another separate thread?

Ayyy, that'd be pretty neato burrito. But how would that mean in the whole downscaling from 2-C though? 1/100 of a 2-C is impressive, but just downscaling from it seems like the bigger feat. Not gonna lie, I think it's a pretty weirdo concept.

 

[Peter1129]

Ehh if it’s not too long we might as well add them onto the same thread.

Yeah Tier 2 downscaling is honestly kind of weird. And that’s mainly because there is no set value between Low 2-C and 2-C. Though in this case I guess this would mean as long as in the future somebody scales 100x higher than the current Low 2-Cs they will automatically become 2-C even if they don’t have actual feats of scaling to a 2-C. Since you know we have an actual value for when a character can reach 2-C if something like what I said actually happened.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I think only Man, Seven, and Jack has additions worth noting. So aye.

Yeah, clear numerical value can help massively for characters that downscale from 2-C.

Also

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/234301812339900416/920528447103729724/Screenshot_20211215-121116_Chrome.jpg

Some big-brained 4channer really proposing Hudram a connection to Decker and I'm not too bugged about it.

And another

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/234301812339900416/920529735241584670/Screenshot_20211215-121619_Chrome.jpg

Not sure about this, but I'm keeping it mind.

 

[Peter1129]

True

Yep. It’s always simpler to have actually numerical values.

Ehh I honestly doubt it.

Huh borrowing powers is returning. I really thought they were going to try and move away from it ever since Z ended. Unless rather than simply borrowing he’s just straight up mixing the cards to make some cool new abilities.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Doing mix-ups would need for the cards to have a clear element truly unique to previous Ultras, but what could be put in? The elements used during Orb doesn't seem to offer much. In that case, while I don't mind that returning, I still hope they're being unique with the cards and its abilities.

 

[Peter1129]

Ogbunabali has accepted High 3-A and Low 2-C. We did it guys we’ve got outright Low 2-C characters and even High 3-A characters now. Though the Shining multiplier was rejected and the countless x countless layer resistance is still being debated. Oh right Zero’s Time Manipulation being layered is also accepted. Just not the countless layered one.

Anyways gonna go and update the blog now that High 3-A and outright Low 2-C are accepted.

 

[Peter1129]

But yeah if you guys have anything you want to say then you should go mention it on the thread now.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/ultimate-force-zero-side-story-revisions.129025/

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh yeah, I brought up his time stop resistance.

And yeah, this is actually amazing, even if the multiplier is rejected and the countless x resistance is still dubious.

Though I wouldn't be entirely surprised since our current justification for Zero's resistance does also come from a literal void. A timeless void, if we equate Planet Chain's nonexistence as similar to that of Greeza's.

 

[Peter1129]

Alright

Yeah this is honestly really good. Though we still need more staff to agree with it before it can be implemented since this is some rather high tier stuff.

True

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right also about some of the multipliers

After doing some research I found out that in Japanese 以上 (Ijō) actually means "or more" and not "more than". So if a multiplier says 3倍以上 it actually means 3 or more times rather than more than 3 times. So yeah small downgrade to some of the multipliers but its not really noticeable.

Also thinking about it now isn't Ruebe's statement about his power talking about Rosso and Blu's combined power being 4 or more times greater rather than them individually? Cause both Rosso and Blu were like individually weaker than Grigio Bone but Ruebe stomped Grigio King who is 4x stronger than Grigio Bone. So isn't Ruebe's statement likely referring to them combined being 4x stronger rather than individually?

Oh right also I found statements about Rosso and Blu's combined techniques.

Flame-Aqua Hybrid Shoot is 3x stronger than their individual beams

Twin Break Bomber is 3 or more times stronger than their individual punches

Twin Strike Kick is several (at least 3) times stronger than their individual kicks

Twin Drop Kick is 5x stronger than their individual kicks

So yeah outside of the Twin Drop Kick (Which seems to be higher due to it being them using two foot instead of one) it seems like all of Rosso and Blu's combination techniques are around 3x their individual power. So that's an upgrade to Orb Dark and Orb Origin and anybody that scales to them as Orb Dark outright overpowered one of their combined technique.

And this further supports Ruebe being 4x stronger than the two of them combined and not individually as Grigio King overpowered the Triple Origium Beam which is Rosso + Blu + Orb Origin. And we know this is the full power of Orb Origin as Orb Dark is stated to be equal to Orb Origin and Orb Dark uses the Orb Ring NEO to transform which is also what Rosso and Blu use to activate this technique. Basically

Grigio King 4x> Grigio Bone > Rosso = Blu

Orb Origin = Orb Dark > Rosso + Blu's combination techniques 3x> Rosso = Blu

Ruebe >> Grigio King > Triple Origium Beam = Rosso + Blu + Orb Origin (3x Rosso or Blu) (Basically 5x Rosso or Blu)

And summing it up

1x Rosso or Blu = Rosso, Blu, Geed, X, Orb

1.25x Rosso or Blu = Grigio Bone

3x Rosso or Blu = Rosso Ground, Blu Ground, Post-Ultraman Geed Orb, Orb Dark, Rosso + Blu Combination Techniques

4x Rosso or Blu = Ginga, Victory, Dark Lugiel, Etelgar, Ultra Dark-Killer

5x Rosso or Blu = Grigio King and Triple Origium Beam

8x Rosso or Blu = Ruebe

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So we're discarding the original 4x boost for Ruebe but in return, the new boost found instead raises the ceiling again? Well now that's certainly a development, and I don't see much problem with it as of now. I mean, I'm not too privy on them and they're always changing anyway.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah pretty much. Though technically we were originally treating the boost as 5x since I thought the statement said more than 4x and not 4 or more times. Although the highest 3-As of the series probably won't breach into the millions now that outright Low 2-C is accepted. Gonna need to see how high into the tier they are if we use the 100x Double Flasher statement for Beryudora.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, so now that the ceiling's dropped again, we use the 100x Double Flasher boost. Good idea. Still though, not reaching into the millions is fine now since it's one of the few things the verse had for itself before the revelation of haxxes and stiff, even better now that we have High 3-As and Low 2-Cs, both tiers that I've always been sure to come up.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah currently updating the blog in a sandbox. Gonna see how high the highest 3-A/High 3-A in the series will be after these new updates.

 

[Peter1129]

Okay finished updating the blog in my sandbox

Peter1129/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

So the highest 3-A/High 3-A in the series will be Reiwa Era Ruebe who is now 1.6 million times baseline. He is now the only character in the series that is in the millions of times baseline without breaching into Low 2-C.

Also wow just realized now that the Heisei Era has some characters in every tier from 4-B to 2-C. Noice.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well, it makes sense.

Oh yeah, it is. Lots of hidden ratings that are just now being uncovered.

 

[Peter1129]

Yep too bad not many characters are around those lvl of power.

Also I decided to message Sir_Ovens who participated in the previous thread to see if he is willing to give one last okay for the CRT before I implement the changes.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, yeah I figured he would be good to contact.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right Ultraman Decker confirmed to be the English spelling of the next series. Seems like they didn’t pull a Regulos naming where everybody thought it was going to be Regulus but is actually spelled Regulos.

【戴卡英文名公开】【奥特曼吧】_百度贴吧

【戴卡英文名公开】..意思是“有……层”，会不会是指变身器插进去一个板子，然后这个板子分两层，上面那层滑上去露出画在下面那层的头像，然后整体的形象类似闪光剑🤔

tieba.baidu.com

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Looks like our cards are dealt. Surprisingly, or not, I'm fine with it being Regulos.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So, if that guy over at the new strongest non-smurf is correct about the current method of scaling resistances then:

Kugutsu < Queen Kugutsu <= Orb (pre-Belial Card) < Belial Card (Small fraction of Belial's power < Orb (post-Belial Card)

That's already like what, 3 to 4 layers of innate resistance on most Ultras? At least the major ones. Like usual, since I listed, or assumed more like, the Belial Card as being a small portion of his total darkness in the vein of Devil Splinter, then Zero would be around 5 layers of resistance. Actually, Ultras should get unconventional resistance now that I think about it, because as seen through Zero, Geed, and Taiga, even when they're supposedly corrupted, their true soul is still in there. Or at least Zero should, since the others did show signs of disappearing if not solved soon.

Nevertheless, layered resistance, even going by the new system.

 

[Peter1129]

Huh nice

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

There's still the possibility of population equating potency since it was a big deal in-universe that the Kugutsu could and would have affected all lifeforms in the universe. But for now I'm shelving that.

 

[Peter1129]

New episode is out. Also seems like GRF Voice drama screwed up the subs again. So no English sub for this week's episode. Anyway onto the episode itself

So Aboras and Banila awakened. And seems like this is where Carmeara starts to go off the deep end and control Darrgon. And hey Ignis is back as Trigger Dark. But man so this is what happens if he has full control over Trigger Dark. He's actually having quite the fun time. So yeah just a pretty normal episode. But man poor Darrgon. And as we all know Ignis kidnapped Yuna at the end. Likely to gain more power to defeat Hudram.

Welp time for the Live now.