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The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

Ahh I see it’s fine I’ll just work on the Land of Light profile for now then. Although I’m pretty sure your Bullton sandbox is pretty much completed already. All we need now is to just add references and stuff and we’ll be done. And I can probably do that myself.
 
This is as far as I am able to revise Bullton's final draft.

Edit: Goddammit, forgot Power Null and likely more since I was already in a rush.
 
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Huh possibly Low 2-C Bullton. Never thought about that. This would make Gamma Illusion possibly Low 2-C as well for defeating Bullton. Actually wouldn’t this make anybody that is 5x Base Ultras Low 2-C? I’ll add the references for Bullton tomorrow.
 
I still wonder if it will fly though. Because all evidences point there, but probably doesn't tick off all wiki criteria. But yeah, because as of that revelation during its airing, that's pretty much how I imagined the scaling as well.

And yeah, thanks for helping with the refs as well.
 
Yeah we might have to make a quick thread and ask if that’s enough for Low 2-C first before we post Bullton’s profile.

No problem
 
From like an old draft of mine where I hoped to bring Low 2-C into fruition.

Bullton is said to be essential to the existence of a universe, as stated by a character who says this:

"In order for a large universe to be established/come into existence (original translation, official one, says "sustain" but the exact kanji's meaning is what's used here), irrationalities such as Bullton is needed to contain anomalies. With its disappearance, it opened up a hole in the universe."

At a glance, this seems like a run of the mill sustenance feat, but we see that even when that does happen, the universe doesn't immediately get destroyed. So what gives?

Well that's just an establishment of Bullton's role. Thanks to that, we know now that its still an essential existence to the universe and destroying it still has a very noticeably adverse effect on the universe.

Let's take a look at something else Bullton is able to do. One particular feat is its pocket dimension creation. The pocket dimension is consistently referred to as a 4-Dimensional space, in official sources and by a knowledgeable character. Said pocket dimension is also stated to be its own dimensional axis, and the pocket dimension also contains an infinitely looping space as seen with the staircase, and time such as with the mc continuously being looped in time. So, we can infer that Bullton's pocket dimension is 4D, has its own space-time, and is sustained by its very existence, as shown when it disappears upon death. But is it enough to be considered its own space-time continuum, especially given that it apparently only covers the inside of the base and thus not a universal scale?

Well if it being 4D and containing its own spatio-temporal axis isn't enough, then there's the idea of it containing possibly a whole timeline. In the very same episode, where the knowledgeable character also states that it's possible to traverse to any time, place and dimensions, the mc travels through time all while still under the influence of Bullton's pocket dimension. In doing so, he actually imposed a change into the history of his universe as it reveals that the memory he had was in fact caused by him. This also hints to the pocket dimension as being a miniaturized version of their universe inside the base alone.

Now, assuming that the time travel didn't send Haruki directly in their timeline, it can get confusing. So to keep it short, the franchise works with space-time continuum, which are typically referred to as universes or dimensions. Each individual universes are recognized as having differing histories from one another meaning that they each already encompass their individual timelines. And traveling back in time is essentially the same as simply moving to a different universe, albeit using a very advanced method of transportation. Because apparently moving through space-time doesn't equate to being able to move through time. This also does not mean that time is interconnected throughout all realities, I already explained why.

Lastly, I'm clarifying the fact that it's not so much that I see this as a sustenance feat, but we are shown that coupled with what I just explained, Bullton's existence is necessary and even if opening up the hole that brings out Greeza wasn't an instantaneous destruction, it still caused notable effects to the stability of the universe, going by the prologue and the character statements. This also covers the discrepancy as to why its pocket dimension ceases to exist but the universe itself doesn't.

Now that that's out of the way, based on the evidences above, this is my proposal:

By being an essential part to the existence of the universe, and being able to manipulate a pocket dimension that is enclosed in its own dimensional (spatio-temporal) axis that likely encompasses their timeline, Bullton should be Low 2-C. And to get risky for just one instant, get possibly 2-C due to its pocket dimension containing what appears to be 2 separate space-times as one of the character needed specifically exploit the dimension's ability in order to get to Haruki's place who is apparently in a separate place.

If this sounds good, I might do a rework of it where I try to compress it into something even more concise as I realize there might have been some straw graspings here.
 
@Mr.Cutlery So I guess you’re going to post that draft sometime before posting Bullton’s profile right? I think it’s pretty good worth a try to be honest. But I’m iffy about possibly 2-C. Like that seems to be way too big of a jump even for a possibly rating.

@Veloxt1r0kore Pretty sure Perfect Cell has no way of hurting Ace but I guess that might be able to work due to his regen.
 
Seeing as I already got this far, yeah. Might actually try to get that up first, and don't worry, I won't actually include the 2-C proposal anymore once I've gotten relevant scans where needed. And that's really the problem, since I'm already back where I can't do stuffs so it'll be a while before I do again.

Touching also on that Perfect Cell potential match-up, his RPL during that point isn't overly ridiculous yet, right? Like it's Zenkai, which worked miraculously for him after the first beatdown from SSJ2 Gohan, but it won't be completely insurmountable.
 
Ahh I see

Pretty sure Cell’s RPL is no where near as good as say Goku Black or Hit. His is just the normal saiyan zenkai. It took Cell blowing himself up and nearly dying to reach 4-B.
 
So yeah, still the standard sfuffs, before the absolute overhaul that popped up throughout the course of Super. What's Cell's AP value in that form again? Might actually be worth a try, see if Ace would do better than Man. Prolly would, but still.
 
Dragon Ball AP got nerfed a while back since they no longer take Shin’s creation feat as legit or something. So now Perfect Cell is only stronger than 0.08157875381 Foe. Man’s constellation calc is 11.5843642599x higher than Perfect Cell. Ace is 36.7742808009 stronger than Perfect Cell via Chojus being several times stronger than 1 Foe monsters.
 
Wait, there was an actual feat that supports the High 4-C rating for them? I always assumed it was largely powerscaling due to their multipliers already being massive even back then.
 
Shin had a statement of creating stars and that's what Perfect Cell lvl characters scaled to originally. But there was some talks about Shin not actually creating stars so they no longer scale to it and instead simply upscale from like High 5-A or something ever since like last year if I remember correctly. So now they are only slightly above baseline compared to before.

Edit: Here's the calc they scaled to in the past btw
 
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Huh, sucks it still had to be removed. No verse should have the displeasure of not having a set value for anywhere lower than 3-C at least.
 
True. But hey at least we’ve still got Toei Dragon Ball which scales around the same lvl as of High 4-C as the Ultra Series High 4-Cs.
 
Sandboxes, yeah. But unless other people have their own profiles in the works, I don't think there'd be any new profiles for some time.
 
Btw i think i found statement about ultraman Noa transend dimension that see world as ant



And A ce have ability to transend space time as Noa

So ultraman Noa is an existant that encompasses the entire universe.
 
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Very rough because unfortunately I've only seen two of those major words for the first time, but it seems to translate more as:

"Noa is capable of transcending the dimensional setting, passing through worlds as akin to an ant."

So, still standard, if very casual and potentially all-situation-available use of Dimensional Travel.
 
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Mr.Cutlery said:
Very rough because unfortunately I've only seen two of those major words for the first time, but it seems to translate more as:

"Noa is capable of transcending the dimensional setting, passing through as akin to an ant."

So, still standard, if very casual and potentially all-situation-available use of Dimensional Travel.
Click to expand...
Well i mean The director, Yuichi Abe, said, "The reason why Noah appeared was because I had Noah's presence in my heart as 'the existence that encompasses the entire universe.'"
 
Doesn't that sound a bit more on the metaphorical side? Like Noa being more of a presence across the multiverse, rather than actual encompassment.

Still, can you highlight that section?
 
If I read it right, because that's how it same off to me.

Then again, don't take my word for it. I'm less than a Japanese kindergartner in proficiency level.
 
If I'm reading these right by compare and contrast or whatever, the first is more of a clarification of author intent more in the symbolic meaning of the characters in their portrayal. Which, is kinda already clear from the Lens translation to some degree.

Meanwhile the second one? Similar stuff, but about Noa's relevance in the original series' Antlar episode it seems. Y'know, Baradhi.
 
So the preview for episode 7 was somehow leaked and it seems like Megalozoa just starts of rampaging from start and it looks like base form L2-C Decker and Trigger may indeed happen.
 
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Ehh not the first time the episode preview leaked early. Heck just two weeks ago episode 5 was leaked like 12 hours early in China.
 
I know X and Z also did it, but Decker is where I notice how much they're really putting in the effort of revitalizing the consequences of a monster attack on human livelihoods. Pagos' early skirmishes were some of the more haunting moments where I feel genuine fear for the safety of not just the characters but also the civilians.

Though, I'll probably have to put forward this less preferred aspect in order to lift a weight off first. Ryumon's character didn't shine as much as seemed to be expected, I actually wanted to see more significant parts of him playing into the story rather than an almost off-story causality feeding into his part. Ichika's was honestly better. But ah, we are still at episode 6.

And in episode 6, we know now that what was established in Z i believe, that Pagos should universally have molecular level Deconstruction. Congrats, buddy, you deserved it.

Speaking of the monsters and everything related...

I love how vicious everyone was. Pagos' agressive underground launch onto the city in the climax, Gudon dragging Decker and even aggravating Pagos into attacking the Ultra, and that ******* army. They didn't do anything, but thanks to the goddamn buildup, I can't help but dread at the thought of Decker having to deal with that much. Though in retrospect, woulda been a better way of showcasing Miracle. Agira was also absolutely spectacular, straight up Gomora'ing the hell out of Telesdon.

Then, a miracle. The miracle. The way Decker had Gudon walk into his portal was honestly what I've been expecting to see from a Wizard-type form and now that we know it actually can do that, it makes it easy to justify Gamma Future being able to do similarly. Probably Tregear too, honestly. Also, epic resistance to molecular Deconstruction for our Ultraman as well. See, if the monsters' physiology or power properties were always explored, it would make a hell of a more fun arsenal.

Lastly, I can not for the life of me, not talk about the camera work. At this point, Takanori is the best Director when it comes to illustrating the scenes on-screen. The sets, too. That underground cavern was ghastly in atmosphere and it's perfect. Honestly, I don't know if I can handle another Takanori after this. He might be even better than Taguchi at this point, and I'm a Taguchi fan. Thankfully Koichi is next so my brain can rest. Though I'm likely to get blown away by the actual fight scenes by that point.

Anyway, that's all for now. And a thought to end it with. Since the points of origins have always been reversed lately, do you think New Gen Gaia will appear at the sea or desert? Or will it instead be New Gen Agul considering the heavy reversals?
 
Yeah pretty much my thoughts on this episode. Ryumon didn’t get to shine as much as I expected. But at least the characterization this episode was on point and fleshed him out more.

Honestly sometimes I really wonder if it’s possible to give Ultra all the resistance other Ultras have. Like resistance to abilities such as molecular deconstruction are like something you expect all Ultras to have due to how often it is shown throughout the series. And one hit kill abilities like Gatanothor’s death manipulation should also be considered universal resistance as other wise it’s impossible for any Ultras to fight it. And we’ve already had Tiga and Orb fight Gatanothor which proves that it’s not a resistance limited to specific Ultras.

Yeah I kind of wish we saw more characters use their portals this way. The scenery underground was definitely a highlight this episode. Haven’t seen a nice underground area like this in a while.

The reversal is possible though I was thinking maybe we might get some kind of sky ultra that way we have an ultra for land, sea, and air.
 
Oh right anybody remember Vacuumon? So yeah I was wondering couldn’t we use Vacuumon’s crushing Earth into a sugar cube statement as a lifting strength feat for all Ultras? Like I seem to recall DontTalk saying this is like something akin to a black hole or whatever right? Wouldn’t this grant all Ultras something like Stellar lifting strength since Jack can move around inside it’s body and he along with Man during the Showa Era are the weakest Ultras in the entire series? Though I guess there is the problem of Ultras being unable to lift smaller stuff like Skydon who is just 200,000 tons.
 
Aye.

I'm not sure if that could flow, though. Maybe it's fine for cases like Orb, where if the monsters fought have extra properties in their arsenal, it can be fair to assume they could deal with it. Universal application I'm actually neutral to disagrer, even though we have those bunches in the Ultra Physiology page that hasn't been universally shown even though they logically should have it. I'm of course, totally fine with the idea.

This time they really did do it right. Trigger tried some water surface to underwater transitions but they never fully stuck. Decker's however, not just expanded in what was brought back in Trigger's #16, but further gave its own modern rendition of Showa Era caverns.

Y'know, thinking about it, people defo died in a lot of Decker's episodes. Like not, logically should have died, but they're straight up contextually portrayed in an actual tragic light that gives less room for ambiguity.

Oh yeah, a Sky Ultra would definitely be the biggest twist they can put.

Edit: Huh, so LS can still be potentially applicable? That's nice to know. Give it a shot, I'd say.
 
I’m honestly not sure about the lifting strength. Like I know Jack can withstand the pressure of Vacuumon’s body which can compress Earth to the size of a sugar cube but is that really considered lifting strength or just resistance to stuff like gravity and pressure? Like Man whom Jack is on par with couldn’t even lift Skydon who is 200,000 tons. So I’m skeptical whether or not this is considered usable. Or should we just consider Skydon a Goku moment where they are clearly shown to be able to lift heavier stuff but the writers are stupid and thought they can’t?
 
That underground battlefield is like comes out from Garo, shit looks fancy and expensive af
This episode are literally Destroy All Monsters but instead it's full subterranian Monsters, from the start until the end i already excited for more underground monsters to appeared just for all out war or something
Next episode preview, Kengo and Kanata would have a sparring fight?
 
It can be both, it's only LS that needs verification, after all. Though I am actually more curious on what kibda value that sort of gravitational pressure gives, because it's pretty universal if we really go by Jack being one if the weaker dudes because they would massively upscale over the years. Not only will it give trouble to no-value gravity manips, but it'd also heavily upgrade the characters that actually overpowers an Ultra's resistance to gravity at that level. Baltan II and Dark Baltan for example.
 
Peter1129 said:
Honestly sometimes I really wonder if it’s possible to give Ultra all the resistance other Ultras have. Like resistance to abilities such as molecular deconstruction are like something you expect all Ultras to have due to how often it is shown throughout the series. And one hit kill abilities like Gatanothor’s death manipulation should also be considered universal resistance as other wise it’s impossible for any Ultras to fight it. And we’ve already had Tiga and Orb fight Gatanothor which proves that it’s not a resistance limited to specific Ultras.
Click to expand...
Honestly, this might be doable by saying that the Ultra's anatomy are very similar to each other. Similar to how I was able to get universal resistances to the Saber riders by saying the armors they wear come from the Holy Swords which scale to one another.
 
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