The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So TDC is over now? Also damn what are they gonna do with Belial and Tregear with Giga Battlenizer and Grimdo Mask? Become their main counterpart in different way?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Also in ultraman z ep 15
It is said that if greeza fuse completely with geed ; geed will cease to exist
That prove greeza have existance eraser

And in ultraman X we saw greeza absorb X faster then when he absorb geed
That prove geed has resistance to absorbtion
The reason why the other kaiju spark doll didn't cease to exist is that x was able to grant greeza a physical body or some thing

Can you post scans

 

[Peter1129]

Anyways Tartarus needs two keys. One key is his Base which is Low 2-C at least 400x baseline since he can tank the Leo-Astra Double Flasher without too much injuries and still face off against Post-Training Ultimate Shining Zero who can hurt him even worse than the Leo-Astra Double Flasher. His second key will be his Full Power key which will be At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C since he might've been the one to destroy multiple universes in the UCL storyline. This key scales to King, Noa, and Legend.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Wait where is the scan for the destroying multiple universes thing, and i kinda skipped the part where they say that the UCL storyline is canon

 

[Peter1129]

Here it is. The very first UCL storyline.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I guess the key split is fine. Jist to be sure, how do we justify the tie to Tartarus as being the one who did it?

 

[WanderingGecko]

Nice, Tartarsauce really is a tough guy

 

[Peter1129]

Well it's shown in series that the only Absolutian that can use this golden light power is Tartarus. And they mentioned that the UCL storyline is about them destroying the Narak Tower that the Absolutians set up to jam the signal so that the Ultras can't find The Kingdom. So this isn't done by the unknown Absolutian Lord. The only other Absolutian that fits the bill is Tartarus hence possibly since he might've been the one to do it and most likely is based on what we have seen in UGF3.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, nice. Hopefully this Absolutian lord doesn't share the same color code as Tartarus because that would take away the possibly rating from him. And honestly, mans deserve it.

 

[Peter1129]

Yup Tartarus definitely deserves it. And man Tieba is going crazy over Tartarus. People are all like "I kneel Big Bro Tartarus", "Tartarus is now the strongest guy below only the legendary Ultras", "I can't believe we even thought about comparing Grimdo and Reiga to the likes of Tartarus" after watching him match King. Feels real good to be a fan of Tartarus today.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Fear the golden condiment, Absolute Tartar Sauce.

 

[Peter1129]

The disrespecting is finally over. Tartarus has finally taken his rightful place as the strongest villain of the Ultra Series. For now since we just learned that there will be an Absolutian Lord that is even stronger than Tartarus.

 

[WanderingGecko]

So that Absolutian Chick is probably the lord that Tartarus serves.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right also found the clip of Tartarus vs King on BiliBili. And yeah Tartarus definitely didn't overpower King. He was just barely pushing King's beam away from him with his life and even then the next time the beam struggle was shown the beam was close to Tartarus again. So King is actually casually stronger than Tartarus' full power.

She might not be the lord. The lord might be someone else entirely.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Yeah, he was holding on dear life trying to push the beam, but it ended up creating a rupture in space-time and yeeting him into Trigger’s universe.

Probably, tho it would be cool to see a female character that’s atleast God tier level.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Imagine whichever databook that talks about TDC clarifies that Tartarus and King's attacks are individually capable of ripping through space-time, and the rift only opened because of the output going out of control.

A man can dream.

 

[Peter1129]

With how lazy the SCW descriptions have been these years. I really doubt that will happen.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Welp, that's why history will see the first time ever Copium and Hopium fused together.

Anyway, I can't yet get back to it, but just in case for when I finally do, how should the keys for some monsters and aliens look like? I might plan to make a sandbox for Baltan and the two Orochi variants. Though, I believe we should at least split Dark Baltan and Basical to be their own profiles, separate from the generic Baltans.

 

[Peter1129]

Ahh right different versions of monsters and all that. I think for aliens if they are specifically stated to be different versions with different names and are shown to be relevant to the story like the Ultraman Saga Alien Bat than they should have an entirely separate profile. Otherwise just have them all in the same profile. Like Alien Baltan from the Showa Era should all share a profile but Dark Baltan should be a separate profile. I will probably start working on a tier revision thread tomorrow.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So then, should they share the same format as the Ultras in that they are listed through Eras? As for P&A, I'm thinking of either compositing the abilities of the Showa Era, then give subsequent generic incarnations their own section. Though I'm totally fine with splitting their powers as per the Generation tabbers that the wiki has. Especially since Dark Baltan is his own composite profile of Showa Baltans anyway, plus being in his own league entirely.

 

[Peter1129]

The monsters and aliens should be listed based on series rather than era since most of the time each series would have a different variant that is stronger or weaker. I was thinking of doing the stuff we currently do for the monsters. They should all at least have the abilities of the first incarnation since that's what most monsters nowadays are based on. And if they show more abilities in future series than those will just be listed for that specific version unless other versions are also shown to have those ability.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Similar to what we already did with Zetton and Gomora, then. Which the Generation list already covers, so that makes it easier to tab them then.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Nexus vs Titan and Ribut.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

New link for UGF fully.

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随时随地发现新鲜事！微博带你欣赏世界上每一个精彩瞬间，了解每一个幕后故事。分享你想表达的，让全世界都能听到你的心声！

m.weibo.cn

 

[WanderingGecko]

Oh yeah does Junis Red & Blue get an upscale ? Since Junis Red pretty much overwhelmed Ribut & Titan to the point they have to injure his Nexus spark (or whatever his name) to run away.

 

[Peter1129]

Anphans Nexus alone is superior to Titan who is comparable to Diavolo who even while weakened is comparable to Glitter Trigger Eternity who is at the lvl of the New Generation Ultimate Forms. Basically

Junis Blue w/ Meta Field 2x> Junis Blue Nexus ≈ Junis Nexus w/ Meta Field 2x> Junis Nexus 3x> Anphans Nexus > Titan ≈ Diavolo > Diavolo (Weakened) ≈ New Generation Ultimate Form ≈ Post-Training Tri-Strium Taiga 4x> Pre-Training Tri-Strium Taiga > Tri-Strium Taiga (Weakened) ≈ Imit-Belial ≈ New Generation Belial (Full Power) = Baseline Low 2-C

Far stronger than 4x Baseline Low 2-C: Anphans Nexus

Far stronger than 12x Baseline Low 2-C: Junis Nexus

Far stronger than 24x Baseline Low 2-C: Junis Nexus w/ Meta Field, Junis Blue Nexus

Far stronger than 48x Baseline Low 2-C: Junis Blue Nexus w/ Meta Field

 

[WanderingGecko]

This is what u call an epic moment

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Nexus should get a new form, Gamer, cuz that's epic.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Fax, man's need a cleanup.

Anyways, what is the durability of something that can withstand 1 trillion degrees of heat.

 

[Peter1129]

Btw what do you guys think of this draft of the next CRT I have. Is it too wordy?

Okay so the next revision will be the tiering revision for Showa and Reiwa as well as ability/resistance addition for Zero and Tartarus.

Ultra Galaxy Fight Revision

AP

So thanks to a recent stream on Ultraman Connection we've got direct confirmation that the UCL storyline is canon to the series. Like it was already implied its canon since it explained how Regulos got captured by the Absolutians but the host of the stream directly confirms that in UGF3, Astra was able to locate to coordinates to The Kingdom thanks to the humans of the UCL storyline destroying Narak Tower which was jamming the signals and preventing the Ultras from finding The Kingdom. So that means this feat at the beginning of the first UCL storyline is now confirmed canon.

In the first animated short we see a clip of universes being erased by a golden light and portal. First, it was shown that two universes in the background were erased by it following by two more universes shown in front of the screen. And currently the only character in the series that has shown the ability to manipulate this golden light is none other than Absolute Tartarus. And since we don't know which state he did this in I propose a key split. Full Power Tartarus, the glossy golden form at the end of UGF3 that is massively more powerful than everything else in the series, should be upgraded to At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C due to the feat shown in the UCL storyline clip.

And if you ask whether or not this is an outlier than no it isn't. Tartarus has been repeatedly hyped up and stated to be the greatest threat and the current strongest villain in the entire series.

Director Sakamoto outright calls Tartarus the strongest villain that travels through space-time in the UGF2 Behind the Scenes

After Tartarus defeated Ultimate Shining Zero, Taiga outright states that The Kingdom (who at this point he only knows of Tartarus, Belial, and Tregear) are stronger than any enemy they have ever faced and wonders if they could even win. And this is despite knowing that they have access to fusions like Reiga and Super Taro whom are at least 200x baseline Low 2-C.

In the latest UGF series we see that this is in fact no exaggeration. Full Power Tartarus was going to kill all the Ultras on Planet Blizzard in one blast. And every single one of the Ultras on the planet were Low 2-C with the strongest being in the hundreds of times baseline via scaling. In the end in order to stop Tartarus, Ultraman King, one of the god tiers of the series had to step in himself and stop him. And even then Tartarus was still able to briefly hold back his beam to the point of a stalemate.

Also in episode 14 of Ultraman Trigger, Marlulu said the energy of the golden ball is 計り知れない (Hakarishirenai) immeasurable. And in UGF3 we learned that this golden ball is actually Tartarus and not Diavolo after being somewhat injured by Zero and beam struggling against King. So this was likely a weakened Tartarus whose energy is still considered completely off the charts by Marlulu.

And in episode 24, Marlulu said Megalothor 2nd form's energy is 桁違い (Ketachigai) an order of magnitude higher than that of Megalothor 1st form. So Megalothor 2nd form's energy is an order of magnitude (10x) higher than that of Megalothor 1st form (At least 40x baseline Low 2-C) but it is still readable using GUTS-Select's computer systems. Tartarus' energy on the other hand even while being weakened was stated to be immeasurable and cannot be read using their system. And Megalothor is supposed to be the current strongest monster in the entire series even in its 1st form. This is backed up by it scaling above all other monster that has ever appeared so far.

So currently outside of the legendary Ultras (King, Noa, Legend, Saga) and Zero almost nobody else in the series scales to Base Tartarus let alone Tartarus at full power. All other characters have only managed to fight a casual Base Tartarus who is still strong enough to tank attacks that are well over 400x baseline Low 2-C with barely any injuries to show. So this will be how Tartarus' new AP description should look like

Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Repeatedly stated to be the greatest threat to the Land of Light, as well as the current strongest villain of the series. Taiga claims that The Kingdom is more powerful than any enemy they have faced and wonders if they can even win despite having knowledge on how strong fusions like Reiga are. Fought Joneus as well as easily defeated Pre-Training Ultimate Shining Zero while holding back and was still able to keep up and trade blows with Post-Training Ultimate Shining Zero. Even while being weakened his energy was stated to be immeasurable by Marlulu and is thus superior to Megalothor 2nd Form whose energy is incredibly high but still readable using GUTS-Select's computer system) | At least Universe level+ (Was going to kill all the Ultras on Planet Blizzard including Post-Training Ultimate Shining Zero. Stalemated the beam of a casual King who felt the need to step in to save the others), possibly Low Multiverse level (Was possibly the one that erased multiple universes at the beginning of the UCL storyline)

Keys: Base | Full Power

Ability Changes

Tartarus needs to lose Power Bestowal since its revealed in UGF3 that he didn't give Belial and Tregear power himself. He used some technology in The Kingdom to grant them power.

Tartarus has Forcefield Creation as shown here.

Tartarus also gets Precognition now since Joneus states that Tartarus is capable of reading movements.

Zero needs to get a new Post-Training key that gives him higher AP and the ability Instinctive Reaction as well as Resistance to Precognition since after training he gains the ability to fight on instinct and Tartarus himself states that he can no longer read Zero's moves anymore.

Pre-Training Zero also needs Accelerated Development since he was able to learn Instinctive Reaction with less than one day of training as well as Resistance to Power Nullification since he was able to resist the power null of the 4th dimension. The power null of the 4th dimension is like it's name suggest a literal 4-D power null that can nullify any power ups even the transformation of Low 2-C characters like Delta Rise Claw Z. Zero can resist that and transform into Shining form.

Summary/TLDR

Tartarus gets two new keys: Base and Full Power. The Full Power key should be At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C

King also gets upgraded for casually matching Full Power Tartarus at the end of UGF3

Tartarus and Zero also gets some abilities added and removed

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

That looks good enough. I was kinda thinking of cutting this part and moving it past the evidence for after the anti-outlier claims:

"And since we don't know which state he did this in so I propose that he should be upgraded to At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C only in his Full Power. Oh right also Tartarus needs a key split since its explicitly shown that he has never once went Full Power (A glossy golden form) until the very end of UGF3."

Or rather a tweak of it after that move, to something like:

"Which is why I'm proposing a key split for a Full Power Tartarus, the glossy golden form at the end of UGF 3 as being the only key he scales to his new rating of At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C as per the feat shown in the UCL storyline clip."

Just for a better flow, though you can alter that again to however seems even better.

 

[Peter1129]

Updated it. Anyways that should be it for the tiering. But since this is a UGF as well as Zero and Tartarus update we should probably also list all the ability changes for them.

Tartarus for example needs to lose Power Bestowal now that we learned Belial and Tregear gained their power from a machine and not Tartarus. He also needs Precognition due to reading others’ movements.

Zero I kind of forgot what all the exact stuff he needs to get added are but I do recall him needing Instinctive Reaction in his Post-Training key as well as resistance to precognition, and 4-D Power Null due to Tartarus being unable to read his movements and being able to transform in the 4th dimension which nullifies all power ups.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, though it should probably be listed as Analytical Prediction rather than outright precognition.

I'm already aware of the effects of 4D space in the Ultra Series, but when did Zero transform in one this time?

On that note, 4D space. That's another location that we have clear details on what it would do to normal beings so anyone that survives in 4D spaces should definitely get at least resistance to power null. Forceful BFR which just like dimensional travel sends targets through 4D spaces that doesn't affect targets should get resistance to space-time manipulation so I'm going to find more instances where this happens.

 

[Peter1129]

Is it really Analytical Prediction though? Cause Tartarus seems to be using something that’s closer to Observation Haki from One Piece. He was shown to dodge a kick from Ginga Victory without even looking at him and was even shown to roll dodge beam attacks before they were fired in episode 3. I guess we might need to wait for the SCW to explain how exactly his precog ability works.

Zero transformed into Shining to escape from the 4th dimension after getting sucked into there by Bullton in Ultraman Z

I do recall 80 being stuck there and unable to transform during the Showa Era. But back then the 4th dimension was kind of weird and the power null was due to a machine the aliens made or something weird like that.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Wait isn’t Saga also a God tier of the verse ?

 

[Peter1129]

Nobody really considers Saga a god tier. Like even in the Japanese fandom they only consider King, Noa, and Legend the Cheat Ultras. It was only recently in UGF3 that Tsuburaya started to officially consider Saga to be a legendary power similar to Legend. But honestly I still have doubts. Like Saga was evenly matched with Hyper Zetton from Ultraman Saga. Alien Bat specifically created Zett and believes it to be stronger than that Hyper Zetton and can defeat Saga. This Zett got defeated by Tri-Strium Taiga. So yeah makes no sense for Saga to be considered a god tier unless we assume the god tiers also get stronger in each era.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

If it's anything like Observation Haki, I'd honestly be all for it, but yeah, I guess we do need to wait for any SCWs to clear up any potential unknowns to it. Is this why Trigger's SCW still haven't come out?

Ah right, that one. Yeah, fine by me.

Putting it like that, 4D space feats of Showa may not be eligible for the info we now have. I guess our best bets are things like Ginga taking a ride in Mold's space distortion, which we should modify along with Juda, to be both space and time manipulation because it connects to a different universe and all.

@WanderingGecko
Well, considering new context, I guess we could count him as such, but until new feats properly showing his standing, should probably withhold that.

Damn, and you wonder where the hell Cosmos and the rest of the New Gens went at the climax since they're all important to their own victory.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Nobody really considers Saga a god tier. Like even in the Japanese fandom they only consider King, Noa, and Legend the Cheat Ultras. It was only recently in UGF3 that Tsuburaya started to officially consider Saga to be a legendary power similar to Legend. But honestly I still have doubts. Like Saga was evenly matched with Hyper Zetton from Ultraman Saga. Alien Bat specifically created Zett and believes it to be stronger than that Hyper Zetton and can defeat Saga. This Zett got defeated by Tri-Strium Taiga. So yeah makes no sense for Saga to be considered a god tier unless we assume the god tiers also get stronger in each era.

I mean saga is actually a force fusion of zero dyna and cosmos so if each of them grow stronger then it should make sence that saga should grow stronger as well.

 

[Peter1129]

And that in itself is the main problem with why I have doubts of Saga being considered a god tier. All other god tiers are shown to just be so strong that we still haven’t seen their upper limits since their debut. But Saga is shown to have limit to how strong he was during his debut and might be getting stronger if his fusees gets stronger. So would he really be considered a god tier if he works more like a stronger than normal fusion?

 

[Peter1129]

So uhh I just found some interesting stuff after rewatching episode 14 and episode 24 of Ultraman Trigger.

So in episode 14, Marlulu said the energy of the golden ball is off the charts. And in UGF3 we learned that this golden ball is actually Tartarus and not Diavolo after being somewhat injured by Zero and beam struggling against King. So this was likely a weakened Tartarus whose energy is still considered completely off the charts by Marlulu.

And in episode 24, Marlulu said Megalothor 2nd form's energy is also off the charts. However, this english sub is actually incorrect. Marlulu said 桁違い (Ketachigai) an order of magnitude. So Megalothor 2nd form's energy is actually an order of magnitude (10x) higher than that of Megalothor 1st form but it is still high enough to be read by GUTS-Select's systems. Which means Megalothor 2nd Form is 400x baseline. Tartarus on the other hand even while being weakened was unable to have his energy being read by their systems. So

Full Power Tartarus >>> Post-Training Ultimate Shining Zero > Base Tartarus (Full Power) > Base Tartarus (Weakened) > Megalothor 2nd Form 10x> Megalothor 1st Form at least 2x> Post-Darrgon Absorption Carmeara at least 5x> Hudram = New Generation Ultimate Form ≈ Post-Training Tri-Strium Taiga 4x> Pre-Training Tri-Strium Taiga > Tri-Strium Taiga (Weakened) ≈ Imit-Belial ≈ New Generation Belial (Full Power) = Baseline Low 2-C

This is actually surprisingly consistent with how Base Tartarus got blasted by the Leo-Astra Double Flasher which is also over 400x baseline and got back up with barely any injuries to show.

So yeah Tartarus is apparently even stronger than Megalothor 2nd form while being weakened and is quite consistently shown to be at least 400x baseline in Base.