The Ultra Series Discussion Thread 4: Chant His Name!

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oof, when it comes to translating stuff I'm not sure. Though I believe as long as you can explain why the tierings are as such, then any staff member could do.

Also I'm not sure we should start another CRT yet because I just realized I completely forgot to start with the previous revisions.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean they are already translated in Chinese and I basically gave a brief description of them in English so that should be enough right?

What other in progress revisions are there? The only one that I know of that’s ongoing is this one. And that’s pretty much already done.

Also all this CRT I’m making is gonna do is confirm which feats and statements are usable and what tier they are so that it’s easier to fix the profiles when I make a separate thread for the scaling.

 

[Peter1129]

So uhh is there any other reasons for why I shouldn’t make this CRT? Cause I want to make sure whether or not the staff agrees with the list of feats and statements. Cause if they aren’t usable then we wont have to waste our time using them in future revisions. But if they are usable it’s better to get them checked out as quickly as possible. And having this checked is probably the most important part of any revision for the ultra series as every future revision for the tiering depends on these feats and statements.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well, since they were translated into Chinese which you can in turn, translate, then I suppose that's enough.

Yeah, that revision is still going on. But I guess it is as you said since your thread won't exactly clash with it, I think there's nothing else to worry about. So yeah, go on ahead, see what can br evaluated.

 

[Peter1129]

Alright here’s the thread

https://vsbattles.com/threads/ultra-series-tiering-revision.109367/

 

[Peter1129]

So is anybody gonna comment on the thread? Also who do we contact to evaluate feats like Juda destroying the universe via spatial distortions?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I actually still don't know who exactly to contact given that the verse is pretty much unknown. Most of the time, I'd contact Ant, but he's usually too busy.

Who knows, try the other ones he tagged in the other CRT, see if they can add anything.

 

[Peter1129]

I guess I’ll try linking it to the other thread to see if any staff comes over.

 

[Peter1129]

Btw should we still split Zero’s page into Heisei and New Generations? Or should we just clean and edit his keys all on one profile?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Depends. If we keep all his major appearances such as the movies as their own separate keys, then we might actually have to split his page.

 

[Peter1129]

Well this was my proposal on the previous page of this thread.

Ultra Galaxy Legend - Ultraman Saga | Ultra Zero Fight - Ultra Fight Orb | Ultraman Geed - Ultra Galaxy Fight (Weakened) | Ultraman Geed - Ultra Galaxy Fight (Full Power) | Ultraman Taiga onwards

First key would have his Techtor Gear, Base (Pre-Plasma Spark), Base (Post-Plasma Spark), and Ultimate (4-B with all his forms)

Second key would have Base, Strong-Corona, Luna-Miracle, Ultimate, and Shining (4-B with Base, Strong-Corona, and Luna-Miracle. 3-B with Ultimate and Shining)

Third key would have Base, Strong-Corona, Luna-Miracle, Ultimate, Shining, and Beyond (4-B with all his forms)

Fourth key would be the same as the third key just with different stats (3-B with all his forms)

Fifth key would be the same as before except stronger. Also Shining and Beyond are switched around as the strongest form.

Zero’s profile would honestly be the Goku profile of the Tokusatsu Series. It would be really long. And if he appears as major characters in future series we really will have to split his profile.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh wow, I didn't realize we'd need to split up into that much. But how would the double Geed to UGF versions work? Also, wouldn't it be better to put UZF alongside the first one?

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah Zero is the one who shows the most improvement in the series. His Full Power Base went from being on par with a Weakened Belial Atrocious during Geed to far surpassing characters much stronger than Weakened Belial Atrocious by Taiga. So yeah he needed a separate key Taiga onwards.

I thought it would be better this way since his first key would be way too cluttered if we add three more forms (Strong-Corona, Luna-Miracle, and Shining) to it. But if you think we could fit all of that into one key than I guess I’m fine with it.

I guess the double Geed one will just list his stats for when he was weakened and when he wasn’t. Cause seriously there’s a huge difference in power between the two keys. Belial should also have a weakened and full power key during Geed.

But yeah we should probably hold off on completely revising Zero’s profile until the feats and statements thread is done. Cause there’s a lot of stuff that needs to be changed.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Huh, I would understand separating Shining, but why SC and LM? Also, I was talking about why we need both a weakened and full power version of Zero's appearances from Geed to New Gen.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean I guess you’re right. So I guess we merge the first two keys together.

Well we know that Zero has two different stats that we know about during Geed all the way up to Ultra Galaxy Fight. So why shouldn’t we list them both on the profile? Cause we do know which tier his Base would be due to the Father of Ultra being equal to him statement. And his other forms would just scale up from his base. Also I think it would be better to let people know that Zero has two stats during Geed. We just never saw his full power state other than at the very beginning of Geed and in interviews.

So merging the first two keys together would mean

Ultra Galaxy Legend - Ultra Fight Orb | Ultraman Geed - Ultra Galaxy Fight (Weakened) | Ultraman Geed - Ultra Galaxy Fight (Full Power) | Ultraman Taiga onwards

First key would list his techtor gear, two bases, Strong-Corona, Luna-Miracle, Ultimate and Shining stats

The other keys would have the same except also Beyond.

 

[Peter1129]

So something like this for his first key if we go by my proposal for his revamped profile.

4-B w/ Techtor Gear (Equal to Leo), higher in Base (Much stronger than before without the techtor gear restricting him, defeated Belial during Mega Monster Galaxy. Gained a power up from the plasma spark and became strong enough to defeat Beryudora), higher w/ Strong-Corona and Luna-Miracle (Stronger than Base), 3-B w/ Ultimate and Shining (Ultimate defeated Juda Spectre rather easily. Shining is far more powerful than Ultimate)

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh...

Oh. I thought this was how much pages we needed to split Zero into, ohmilord, my bad.

So okay, yeah, looking back at the proposal, I think it's actually pretty justifiable on that. Also, pretty sure UFO version would have a 3-B key as well since he was still at full power at that time. And lastly, I'm also sure that the pages' splitting would be dependent on the results of the other revision plus if they contradict previously established tiers.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah I listed it in the first key as well. 3-B with Ultimate for defeating Juda Spectre and Shining because it’s stronger than Ultimate. Also I honestly think Ultraman Saga should just be a separate page from Zero even if officially it is still considered as one of his forms. Cause if Saga reappears in the future he will have different stats again. So we might as well make a separate page for him like Vegito or Fusion Zamasu from Dragon Ball.

Yeah I know. But the current proposals should be fine as during the Heisei Era Zero was never really shown to have improved that much. All his improvements were in the New Generation Era.

Also we kinda need to rename Juda’s page. His name is Juda not Juda Spectre. Juda Spectre is more like his new form.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Alright then. Also, yeah, I agree with splitting Saga from Zero, actually.

Okay.

Huh, so I did name him Juda Spectre. But yeah, we should definitely change the name.

 

[Peter1129]

But yeah we shouldn’t worry about any of these stuff right now as the feats and statements haven’t been accepted yet. After they have though we will have to worry as we are essentially revamping the entire verse. Kinda glad we don’t have too much profiles right now. Cause it would’ve been a pain to update if we had a bunch of profiles like the Ultraman wiki.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

The pros of having what is effectively an empty verse, amirite?

 

[Peter1129]

Yep.

Although now that I think about it. What the heck do we do about the scaling once the feats and statements get accepted?

Cause now that we know starting from Jack they are above baseline 4-B what levels of 4-B would the Ultraman and monsters throughout the series be? Cause there are so many upscaling and a bunch of multipliers which even I don’t know about.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Even I am not sure about that since I planned to deal with it once the revisions' been carried out. I think it might become a similar case to DBS' 3-As.

 

[Peter1129]

DBS at least has a linear scaling and known multipliers. But Ultra Series? There’s still quite a bit of unknown multipliers and nonlinear scaling since most of the multipliers are only mentioned in the data books and scaling is hard because they are mostly from separate universes. So yeah we will probably have a hard time using Heisei and New Generation Era 4-Bs because they are completely unknown into 4-B. 3-Bs are much easier to use as the scaling isn’t as crazy as 4-B.

 

[SunDaGamer]

I think that the notifications for watched threads are a bit bugged, I didn't get notified about any of the 200 messages that were sent since I last looked at this thread, anyhow how are revisions going?

 

[Peter1129]

I was wondering why we haven’t seen you in a while.

The new forums notification is a bit weird. If you missed one message it assumes you don’t care about that thread and doesn’t send you any more notifications of that thread. If you want it to send notifications for a thread you want again you need to view all the new posts on the thread.

I basically made a thread with the list of feats and statements above 5-B that the Chinese fandom compiled. And now we are waiting for it to be accepted as usable by the staff.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Anyway i want to say that Baraba was one of Yapool best creations aside the three famous Choju (Verokorn, Vakishim, and Doragory), Ace Killer, and U-Killersaurus, first encounter in Ace series and Baraba defeated Ace

 

[Peter1129]

Baraba never beat Ace fair and square in Ace’s series though. Baraba despite being buffed by the rain was still getting beat up by Ace who just flew back to Earth and only won because Yapool used the Ultra Brothers as hostages.

Baraba being a scrub in his original appearance and only being a fusion material of Tyrant was pretty much the main reason why people had a hard time accepting that Z Baraba could defeat Delta Rise Claw Z. But now that we learned the Z Baraba was actually a fusion of Baraba, Verokron, and Jumbo King on top of Yapool buffing and controlling it people have pretty much accepted it as the new strongest Super Monster.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Hmm, good point there, then i take everything i said above lel

Then pretty much when Baraba showed up again in future he will be not OP as his in Z

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh wow, Baraba took an easy beating from Ace? And here I was trying to find the right time to watch Ace one of these days.

And speaking of Z Baraba, never again will we get a homage as amazing as that for several more instalments, at the very least.

 

[Peter1129]

@Veloxt1r0kore Yeah this Baraba was specifically stated to be Yapool’s full power. So future Baraba‘s wouldn’t be as powerful as the one in Z.

@Mr.Cutlery Yeah Baraba was actually considered one of the weakest Super Monsters in the series. Like Ace just flew back to Earth and yet he was still able to beat up Baraba without his color timer flashing. Ace’s series was still pretty good overall though.

Yeah the homage for Z Baraba was amazing. A fusion of the first and last Super Monster fighting the two Ultraman that are also pretty much considered the first (Ace) and last (Z). Baraba defeated Z the last using the ability of Verokron the first Super Monster and lost in a beam struggle to Ace the first using the ability of Jumbo King the last Super Monster. So much homage and stuff going on.

 

[Peter1129]

Huh so apparently there was a twitter statement about the scaling between the Six Ultra Brothers and a few more Ultraman back in 2010.

According to the Chinese translation of this tweet the scaling goes

Zero > Six Ultra Brothers (Taro > Zoffy ≈ Ultraman ≈ Seven > Ace > Jack) > Mebius > Hikari ≈ Max

Wow Ace really went from being the second strongest among the Six Ultra Brothers during the Showa Era to becoming the second weakest among the Six Ultra Brothers by the Mega Monster Galaxy Era

Also apparently there‘s this Twitter statement saying that in Dark Zagi’s eyes Kaiser Belial and Base Zero are nothing more than toys to him (As in he could toy around with them no problem).

So Dark Zagi > Kaiser Belial > Base Zero (Mega Monster Galaxy Era)

So yeah this would mean there was another jump in power between Mega Monster Galaxy Era and New Generation (Pre-Omega Armageddon) as Base Zero by New Generation is stronger than Ginga who defeated Dark Zagi.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ouch, that scaling hurts to look at. Hikari and Max being at the bottom really doesn't sit well with me. But oh well.

Okay, so that's a good clearance of the scaling for Dark Zagi. Even if he's weakened, we know thanks to this that he'd at least be in the 4-B range, by a ridiculous margin.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah kinda sad to see them being so low in the scaling. Although now that I think about it this twitter scaling didn't mention if this is talking about Base Mebius and Base Hikari. So maybe Mebius and Hikari would be higher if they use their other forms. Also Hikari being this low is understandable as he is supposed to be a scientist first and foremost. In fact I'm actually kinda surprised he is comparable to Max.

Also this proves that Leo is at least the second strongest among the Ultra Brothers during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era as he could fight and defeat Robot Seven during the Darkclops side story. The robots have been stated to possess the same power as the original Ultra Brothers.

I mean we kinda knew Dark Zagi would be 4-B since he's stronger than Junis Blue Nexus who is more powerful than Junis Nexus who is more powerful than Base Nexus who apparently also has a statement of being stronger than all previous Ultraman. But yeah even than we kinda already knew that all Heisei Era Ultraman are 4-B. This tweet only shows how much further into the 4-B scaling Dark Zagi is.

 

[Peter1129]

So according to this behind the scenes on Ultra Fight Victory the directors and prodiction team considers Juda Spectre to be comparable to Alien Empera.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Huh so apparently there was a twitter statement about the scaling between the Six Ultra Brothers and a few more Ultraman back in 2010.

According to the Chinese translation of this tweet the scaling goes

Zero > Six Ultra Brothers (Taro > Zoffy ≈ Ultraman ≈ Seven > Ace > Jack) > Mebius > Hikari ≈ Max

Wow Ace really went from being the second strongest among the Six Ultra Brothers during the Showa Era to becoming the second weakest among the Six Ultra Brothers by the Mega Monster Galaxy Era

Also apparently there‘s this Twitter statement saying that in Dark Zagi’s eyes Kaiser Belial and Base Zero are nothing more than toys to him (As in he could toy around with them no problem).

So Dark Zagi > Kaiser Belial > Base Zero (Mega Monster Galaxy Era)

So yeah this would mean there was another jump in power between Mega Monster Galaxy Era and New Generation (Pre-Omega Armageddon) as Base Zero by New Generation is stronger than Ginga who defeated Dark Zagi.

Just ignore that twitter scalling. We don't know where he get that statement.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean there’s the Twitter screenshot right there. If it was fake nobody would bring it up when it comes to scaling within the chinese fandom. And so far almost every single statement and stuff I read in the chinese fandom are real so this is definitely the real deal. Also there really isn’t any contradictions here as we’ve known Taro was the strongest since forever and in Mega Monster Galaxy its shown rather clearly that Ultraman and Seven are considered comparable to Zoffy. That same movie also shows Hikari and Mebius doing rather well against Belial compared to Max so the two of them being comparable if not stronger isn’t contradicted. The only few new information is that Ace is now weaker than his older brothers except for Jack. And that Max is comparable to Hikari.

Zagi being stronger than Belial was also a thing mentioned in the databooks. Here he just says how much stronger Zagi is compared to Belial.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So according to this behind the scenes on Ultra Fight Victory the directors and prodiction team considers Juda Spectre to be comparable to Alien Empera.

Excuse me, hwat?

I mean, prime Empera, right, TsuPro? Right?

 

[Tripleaccel555]

BTW is there some information about how strong heisei ultraman from Pre-Zero Era ( Tiga - Max ) to New Generation Era ( Ginga - Z ) ?

 

[Peter1129]

@Mr.Cutlery Pretty sure there is no such thing as Prime Alien Empera. His power never changed he only gained a chest wound weakness. So this just means Alien Empera has always been considered comparable to Juda Spectre. Also keep in mind Burning Brave Mebius one shot Eteldummy Alien Empera who was stated to be even more powerful than the original.

Also Belial during the Mega Monster Galaxy has a statement of being stronger than Alien Empera and he proves it in the movie by defeating Father of Ultra who matched Alien Empera in combat 40000 years ago after awakening true power (真の力).

@Tripleaccel555 Well Tiga Dark has a statement in the databook of requiring Ginga during the first season to use his full power to defeat. Similar to how Gua Spectre has a statement of requiring Ginga Victory to use his full power to defeat. And during the Ginga special with Dark Zagi they basically implied that Tiga might have a chance against Zagi who was basically stomping Jean Nine who has a statement of being superior to Base Zero if I remember correctly. I’ll go over the others later.