The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Peter1129]

Alright. Once you have done that tell me. Cause once I add that onto the sandbox I was thinking about posting the Ultra Physiology as a page so we can link it onto the verse page as it is pretty much complete now.

Edit: Also I was thinking shouldn't we like change the summary for the Ultra Physiology page? Cause there are Ultras from places other than M78.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh yeah, definitely include non-M78 Ultras as well. Resistance to Gravity Manipulation should be listed as well since there have been showings of them being on and moving fairly well on the gas giants. What does extreme atmospheric pressure qualify as in the wiki? I've seen profiles usr density manipulation as means of listing it, but I'm still unsure.

 

[Peter1129]

A quick search for vsbattles atmospheric pressure on google sent me to air manipulation. So i guess that?

But yeah so I guess I just list the summaries for the 3 main worlds M78, U40, and O50 right? Or should I also mention how some other worlds have different ways of becoming Ultras as well?

 

[Peter1129]

Anyways I have rewritten the summary. How does it look now? Also are there any abilities or resistances that are wrong or are missing?

Peter1129/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Looking again, things like empowerment could use some expansion like how they can wield... concepts, like bonds and hope as power up. Wait what? Well, maybe on a conceptual level, but they are still abstract ideas. But yeah, some extra details could work. Damn, it's also possible they have immortality type 8 if they have a host. Ginga, Victory, Max and Z are clear examples.

Basically a lot seems incomplete somewhat.

 

[Peter1129]

Welp guess we’ll have to put off posting the Ultra Physiology page. I’m no expert when it comes to the concepts and stuff so I’ll leave the expansion of those that you listed to you if that’s okay. And anyways gonna go to sleep now. Actually worked on this for way longer than I originally expected.

I’ll probably work on the other Reionics profiles tomorrow after adding the notable attacks and techniques for Rei’s team. And after those I think I’ll just work on monsters that are important to the scaling like Silvergon, Goldras, Grand King and etc.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Alright. Yeah, you can worry about the other things, I'll tackle the more abstract stuffs.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

That upcoming GRF Voice Drama thumbnail, glad that he's back

 

[Peter1129]

Wait whose back?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Wait whose back?

I think his name is Kezam from what i remember

 

[Peter1129]

Oh that guy from Ultraman Max makes sense as the title says the fastest and strongest which is likely referring to Max.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Mr.Cutlery/InnerLightBlog

vsbattles.fandom.com

I hate this so much, so I'm still going to be working on the layout. In the meantime, the blog's done. I'll be updating some of the stuffs in Peter's sandboxes.

 

[Peter1129]

Lol yeah I understand. Sometimes you think something looks decent but once you look back at the layout you think to yourself "Was it always this bad?" And when you try to fix it it just looks even weirder.

Anyways I'm also almost done with Kate's profile. And I just realized that Gan-Q actually has some rather decent abilities and powers.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Pretty much.

And yeah, Gan-Q is pretty impressive. At least, if we make a composite version of it as the Gaia version had the best showings.

 

[Peter1129]

I think I'm done with Kate's profile as well. How does it look?

Peter1129/Sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

Gonna work on Grande's profile now. Also I was thinking that I will probably also make profiles for Io Mikura and Vittorio since they are pretty much the Reionic protagonists of the Mega Monster Battle sequel manga.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah it looks good. Also, was Bemstar and by extension, Tyrant's absorption, said to be done by bending space? If so, would it be unnecessary to clarify that?

 

[Peter1129]

I don't remember. But I'm not done with Grande's profile yet as I decided to take a break so I guess I could clarify that about the absorption later on if it is true.

 

[Peter1129]

Holy shit what. The Ultraman Trigger Episode 5 preview just showed GUTS Wing. Is TPC going to make an appearance or something?

And hey new member of the Galaxy Rescue Force. Kenis of Nebula KJ-K5 and more ship tease for Ribut and Sora. Kinda weird that they decided to mention Luganoger over Madeus when talking about op enemies in Max.

Also at this point I feel like Max's strongest and fastest is more of an epithet or title rather than an actual statement. Like they are calling him the fastest and strongest when we see the Ultra Brothers being stronger than him on screen multiple times. On top of that there's the fact that ultras like Zero, Belial, and the god ultras exist.

Also nothing much is mentioned in the special episode from the looks of it. And it’s weird that they decided to use Blu Wind when talking about speed forms and not Alpha Edge Z when Z and the Tri Squad were used as comparison for base and strength forms. And hey it seems like even the special episode is hyping up Tartarus to be a huge deal. They also mentioned how Tartarus held the advantage against Ultimate Shining Zero so that’s consistent with the interview saying Tartarus was holding back. And with how they are mentioning Tartarus in a Trigger special, now Tartarus appearing in Ultraman Trigger seems much more likely.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I'm guessing Mitsukuni, being the possible universe traveler he is, may have used his experiences as basis.

Well to be fair, could anyone other than Kaito and us viewers confirm Madeus' existence?

Definitely just a title at this point.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah that’s probably what’s gonna happen.

True forgot that there was some weird shenanigans going on during Madeus’ episode.

Also do you have any other calc member in mind that could evaluate Hudra’s calc? Cause the three calc members I contacted didn't reply at all. And we really need that calc evaluated cause other wise we can’t even post most of the Heisei profiles from the sandbox like the Reionics.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well shit. I literally don't know what to do when it comes to calc members. You could probably ask Mr. Bambu as he's one of the other who evaluated the constellation feat.

 

[Peter1129]

Ehh might as well give it a try but I don’t think constellation counts as pocket reality creation. Ahh whatever hope he replies. I really want to at least finish making the measuring stick profiles important to the scaling before classes start again.

 

[Peter1129]

You know sometime I kinda wonder if we might be overestimating some of the multipliers in the series or if Tsuburaya just doesn't remember their own multipliers that they have made. Like for example

Currently we treat Royal Mega Master at the time of Geed as more than several ten times (30x) Primitive via being stronger than Beyond which was at the time a weakened Zero’s strongest form and therefore above Shining and Ultimate both of which scales above Armored Darkness which is stated to be a several ten times boost when somebody wears it. But officially Royal Mega Master is weaker than Belial Atrocious which is said to be several ten times (30x) Primitive while Royal Mega Master is only 25x Primitive and 20x Magnificent. And this is also the reason why we opted to ignore this as Magnificent being just 1.25x Primitive is utter bs considering how it stomped a stronger Pedanium Zetton than the one that matched Solid Burning that stomped three Darkclops at the same time when a single one was stronger than Primitive. Heck the Ultra wiki also only mentioned Royal Mega Master's Royal End being 20x Magnificent's Big Bustaway but not 25x Primitive's Wrecking Burst which just goes to show how barely anybody takes the 25x Primitive statement seriously.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Probably a bit of both. And I'd say it can be said because we're trying to look for the most reasonable statements which leads to us filtering them out until we see results that checks out with how they were shown in the series. Also if anything, I think RMM being stronger than Beyond is the one that's most farfetched since Zero was still consistently portrayed as being Geed's superior, Episode 16 and 17 not withstanding because they dumbed him down despite showing he was confident taking on Belial both times.

I might also be bad at math, but if RMM is 20x Magnificent and 25x Primitive, wouldn't that make Magnificent 5x Primitive? Not accurate, but can still be considered close enough. Besides, he also has his own several times stronger statement with one of his Mega Bomber attacks so it's really just all over the place and again brings us to the fact it's a bit of both.

 

[Peter1129]

Honestly yeah. Cause like later on when they fight King Galactron they show Zero Beyond being comparable to Royal Mega Master Geed. But like we clearly see Zero Beyond's attacks not doing much damage against Base Belial. And he was said to be equal to Dada Custom Legionoid who was stomped by Zaigorg who was in turn casually stomped by Royal Mega Master Geed alongside Thunder Killer.

RMM is 25x stronger than Primitive and 20x stronger than Magnificent. 25/20 is just 1.25. Also I always feel like those statements about one attack being like several times stronger than another is just a way to show that some attacks only use a fraction of their full power. Like that's basically Magnificent's whole shtick. His two handed punch was stated to be 10x stronger than his single hand punch.

Also crap I just did some research and I just realized we are gonna have to fix the scaling chains once again as I messed up pretty badly due to not understanding Japanese as much as I thought.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, wait what? Which part?

 

[Peter1129]

Basically, I just found out that although 何十倍 (Nanjuubai) means several ten times in Japanese. 何倍も (Nanbaimo) actually means many times rather than several times. And the word many doesn't really have a set minimum number so Exceed X, Crusher Justice, and Hyper Zetton won't have a quantifiable multiplier as their multiplier statement is 何倍も not 数倍. But at least they still scale to EX monsters and Future Cosmos so they still keep their 3x boost. But the problem is if Kyrieloid II ever gets a profile it won't be considered 3x Kyrieloid I as it has now lost its several times multiplier.

And another huge problem. I actually misunderstood the meaning of 数十倍 (sujuubai). In Japanese, although 数倍 (subai) is considered several times and at least 3.

https://kotobank.jp/word/数倍-2052861

数十倍 is actually only considered 20x on the low end not 30x. It’s actually really just the equivalent of our tens of times which is 20-99x.

「十数倍」と「数十倍」の違いとは？分かりやすく解釈

この記事では、「十数倍」と「数十倍」の違いを分かりやすく説明していきます。 「十数倍」とは? 「十数倍(じゅうすうばい)」とは、「基準となる自然数を11倍以上20倍未満にすること」を意味している算数の用語です。 「十数倍」という用語には、「

meaning-dictionary.com

So all the current 数十倍 multipliers are actually 20x multipliers at minimum not 30x. So that's actually a downgrade to quite a few characters and this actually lowers the scaling of the AP by a bit. So now the only 3-Cs in the series are those that scale to Future Cosmos rather than Eclipse Cosmos. And the overall lvl of 3-A and Low 2-C will be lowered a bit.

Also I found out that this is a thing. Fukuide Kei as Pedanium Zetton who had absorbed the light from Planet Sturm was able to match and eventually overpower Magnificent Geed albeit just slightly. And after absorbing the Alien Empera and Dark Lugiel capsules he was able to no sell RMM Geed's 87 Flasher and tank the Royal End for a long time. Like so long that it seems like Geed had to go to his absolute limits to barely defeat him. And according to one of the databooks, Pedanium Zetton after absorbing the two capsules had all his abilities multiplied by 5x. So this means that

Royal Mega Master Geed >= Alien Empera and Dark Lugiel Absorbed Pedanium Zetton 5x> Post-Planet Sturm Enhanced Pedanium Zetton >= Magnificent Geed

Royal Mega Master Geed 25x> Primitive Geed

So Magnificent is actually 5x weaker than than Royal Mega Master based on this scaling. Which makes it 5x stronger than Primitive. This actually makes a lot more sense than Magnificent only being 1.25x Primitive.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, right. Yeah, I actually noticed that too, but I couldn't really get a start on where some of the statements were taken from.

 

[Peter1129]

So yeah basically tldr

Overall AP of the series will be decreased due to 数十倍 being 20x instead of 30x minimum.

Magnificent actually has a 5x multiplier based on the Pedanium Zetton scaling.

I'm gonna start updating the sandbox again based on these new information along with replacing some of the videos that have been copyright striked. But I'd say due to these new information our strongest 3-As probably won't be in the hundreds of millions of times baseline anymore. They will probably at most be somewhere in the tens of millions of times baseline instead. And our Low 2-Cs will only be 400x baseline instead of 900x baseline.

Also I just found out that apparently Ultimate Zero also has a many times Base Zero statement from an interview with the director in 2010.

アベ：ゼロはファミリーにフォローされることがないような、別の宇宙まで行きます。どう考えてもファミリーが助けに行くことができない、自分の力で何とかするしかないという中、ゼロは他人に自分のパワー（命）を分け与える。それが何倍もの力になって返って来るんです。与えることで自分が力をもらえるんだということの大事さが伝わるように、結果的にゼロを追い込むことになりました。

But since many doesn’t have a set minimum number it’s kinda useless.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yikes, that's a hell of a downgrade. Also means that Goku wins against Zero if we're to redo it. BS, I tell ya.

 

[Peter1129]

Yikes, that's a hell of a downgrade. Also means that Goku wins against Zero if we're to redo it. BS, I tell ya.

Actually the match can still be kept as Zero can still one shot Goku even with this downgrade.

400/20 is 20x which is still above the 7.5x one shot limit on vs threads.

But yeah thing is I actually feel like Ultimate Zero might not be a 20x boost now. Cause if it was the director probably would've just said 何十倍 or 数十倍 rather than 何倍も which seems way less impressive. And apparently Zero Beyond has a more than 2x statement. But I feel like we should just ignore this as it just means at least 3x. Ruebe was also said to be more than 4x Rosso and Blu and yet we see him stomp Ultra-Dark Killer who can defeat Royal Mega Master Geed who is 25x Primitive Geed who is comparable to Base Rosso and Blu.

And if you think about it Base Zero scales above Taro who is far above Ginga who is on par with Chaos Ultraman who is equal to Corona Cosmos. So Eclipse Cosmos being 数十倍 (At least 20x) Corona Cosmos and somewhat comparable to Etelgar should mean that the gap between Base Zero and Ultimate Zero should be smaller than 数十倍 (At least 20x) as Ultimate Zero at the time was >= Etelgar.

So right now I'm thinking perhaps in the near future we'll need to downgrade Ultimate Zero's 20x multiplier. And honestly thinking about it now. Zero being massively beyond Super Taro and Reiga even if its only in Ultimate Shining feels kinda weird. So if we happen to see Zero being comparable to any of the two in Ultimate Shining in the future than yeah we're gonna need to downgrade Ultimate's multiplier.

 

[Peter1129]

Okay I think I am now done with updating the scaling with the new information about the multipliers. I have also decided to add more arrows to give an idea just how much stronger than Ultras got with each passing series. If there's anything you guys think looks wrong just tell me.

Peter1129/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also I decided to add Destrudos into the Low 2-C section as a likely because even after losing the Belial medal and getting partially weakened it still pretty much no sold everything Beliarok threw at it and proceeded to destroy it in one shot after it had overloaded its absorption. And the Beliarok is comparable or superior to the Ultra Brothers via scaling from Fusion Baraba. And I really doubt Reiwa Era Base Zero can do anything as crazy as easily one shotting and no selling everything thrown at him by the Reiwa Era Ultra Brother as currently the gap between them is no longer that big.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well I missed a lot thanks to a power outage. Anyway on Destrudos, I don't think overloading absorption is one shotting someone, though coming out relatively unharmed is pretty close to no-selling that backlash. And I mean we all believed Zero is the strongest, but nobody really said he was that far up.

On another note, has there been leaks on Z SCW, particularly on Bullton?

 

[Peter1129]

True. I guess I should probably just remove the one shot part from Destrudos’ description on the scaling. And yeah Zero is no longer confirmed to be too far up above everybody else. But for real though if possible I would’ve liked to make all the New Generation Ultras in the strongest form and the Reiwa Era Ultra Brothers at least 3-A likely Low 2-C. But as we all know the Base Zero possessing greater powers than full power Tregear statement exist and we see that the Plasma Zero-let which probably only contains a portion of Base Zero’s power allowed a weakened Base Taiga to overpower an attack from full power Tregear. So yeah can’t really scale if a portion of their power is that much stronger.

I was actually hoping to ask you the same thing. So far barely anybody has posted anything related to the Z SCW. Like they have the SCW but so far nobody has posted the whole thing on Tieba.

Edit: Actually it seems like somebody actually posted quite a bit of the entire thing half a week ago. But sadly nothing on the Ultraman Z monsters were posted.

【图片】【转 泽塔奥特曼超全集】水贴 封面镇楼 【奥特之父吧】_百度贴吧

【转 泽塔奥特曼超全..【转 泽塔奥特曼超全集】水贴 封面镇楼

tieba.baidu.com

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

What? Are we scaling New Gen final forms and Ultra Brothers to Base Reiwa Zero? I thought there was something else they scale to?

And yep, really nothing on those leaks. It's a real shame, would have hoped to see if we can finally confirm Bullton's case. But still, it's really weird that they bring that up but not have it scale to the overall stats. I might give it a shot again once I'm sure that either Bullton contains a whole 4-Dimensional spacetime in itself or that the distortions it contains actually has an effect similar to the STA Bomb. Then again, Bullton did create that pocket dimension that's a perfect replica of the timeline.

 

[Peter1129]

I said I would’ve liked to do that. But no they don’t scale to Reiwa Base Zero. They scale to Photon Earth Taiga in Base and in their strongest forms they all scale to Beta Spark Armor X.

You could try. But if I’m being honest I kinda thought that Bullton only made a pocket dimension that covered the STORAGE base but it’s effects allows the people in the pocket dimension to travel between time and space rather than it simply creating a pocket dimension with an entire timeline. But yeah I think it’s probably better to see if there will be new information on Bullton in the SCW first. And yeah I do agree that it’s stupid to call Bullton the 4th dimension monster and not outright show it having High 3-A or Low 2-C feats.

Edit: Found the whole SCW on bilibili. In fact it’s in 4K. Only bad thing is it’s in video format. Also you need to have a bilibili account and log in to access 720p and 1080p. And you need to buy the membership to view in 4K.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14M4y157GK

 

[Peter1129]

Did a quick scan of the Bullton stuff. And yeah like many people have said the Ultraman Z SCW barely gives any new information on anything. The Bullton stuff is just a repeat of what they said in Ultraman Z so no new information here.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, okay.

Well that's the weird thing. It's the space that allows them to freely go to different dimensions and time points, so what are the chances that Bullton didn't just cover them all up in the same encompassing 4-Dimensional space that fits an entire timeline? And that's what I'd say, if it hadn't been for the fact the video doesn't allow me quality beyond 480 unless I log in, and even then, I can't actually find anything that clarifies any of the doubts that could arise. (Written before the page updated). So it seems like any chances of upgrade through Bullton is out of the window. Guess we'll also have to rely on Trigger to show what counts as affecting the entire spacetime.

 

[Peter1129]

Well here’s the Bullton stuff in 1080p. Still might be a bit blurry but it should be better than 480p


But yeah doubt there will be anything useful. Probably best to just wait for Trigger to show some potential Low 2-C stuff.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wow, that's literally what's written back in the m78 site. Wot in da hell. There's really not much we can do with just knowing Bullton creates and has absorbed Zero into a 4D space. That's all we have.