- 10,692
- 2,827
Showa Downgrade
So first to start it off I was thinking we should remove Jack scaling to Zetton which caused everybody in the Showa Era to scale to 4-B Ultraman Ace onwards. Reasons being Jack most likely got an Empowerment boost right before his battle with Zetton II. Right before the battle Hideki Go (Jack) was thinking of going into the battle against Zetton as if it were a suicide mission with the fate of the Earth at stake. Ultras are shown to be able to get a humongous boost in power when they go into battle in a specific state of mind such as wanting to protect others or the planet.
In the battle against Black King its shown that not even Jack's Ultra Bracelet attacks which are far more powerful than his normal beam can scratch it. But in his rematch after gaining an empowerment boost due to Ultraman and Seven's friendship he just straight up defeated Black King in physical combat and chopped off its head. And it is mentioned in the ODF databook that Black King is hundreds of times (At least 200x) more powerful than Red King who is on par with Ultraman and Jack. Plus this is a statement from another databook
According to one saying in the battle against the saucer beasts due to the loss of many people, Leo's sadness, hate, anger, and all kinds of other emotions allowed his beam to become tens of thousands of times stronger then normal. It is been said that it has power that is comparable to the Cosmo Miracle Ray and the Space Q. So Ultras' empowerment boost are stated to be able amp their power by not just hundreds of times but also tens of thousands of times depending on the level of their emotions.
Not to mention Ultraman who had lost to a weaker Zetton I in the past also didn't think Jack could win and told Jack to not fight Zetton II. So rather than assuming that by the end of the series Jack somehow grew thousands of times stronger to defeat Zetton. I think it is better to assume that Jack defeated Zetton with an empowerment boost that Ultras are shown use multiple times throughout the series. So my proposal is early Showa characters get downgraded from 4-B to High 4-C. Though by multipliers and scaling a few characters would still reach just above baseline 4-B by the end of the Showa Era. Like scaling wise
Astra >= Leo > Taro 20x> Ace > Seven =< Jack w/ Ultra Bracelet >> Bemstar = SN1054 Supernova (1 Foe)
So Taro is much stronger than 20 Foe while 4-B starts at 22.77 Foe. That's just a 1.1385x gap there. So BoS Leo could arguably be baseline 4-B due to being stronger than Taro who is far stronger than 20 Foe. Though I think a staff said upscaling from a multiplied value is not allowed or something so I'm not sure if Leo can be 4-B. I guess we should let a staff decide if upscaling is allowed in this case. Though End of Showa Era Ultra Brothers would still be 4-B due to them scaling to 80 who is at least 9x stronger than Taro during his series.
Multiverse Upgrade
So currently we have the Ultra Series Multiverse as having Countless x Countless universes due to their being countless universes that have branched off from the current multiverse which consists of countless universes. But Omazio2019 brought up this databook statement from the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works which states that there are infinite parallel universes.
(Ultra brothers watching over Zero's success
In the land of M78 Nebula, the Ultra brothers are watching Ultraman Zero, who has left for another universe, "Another Space." The Ultra brothers were worried that a terrifying plot was underway somewhere in the infinite parallel universes, knowing that a mysterious spaceship was carrying monsters away from the monster graveyard. And I believed that Ultraman Zero would overthrow that scheme.)
And it was also brought up on discord that this question and statement from Origin Saga exists. Gai's question was how many universe are there and Musashi's answer is there are as many universes as there are possibilities. And in the Ultra Series it has been repeatedly stated that there are infinite possibilities.
(The era of Ultra series The world depicted in the Showa Ultra series and "Ultraman Mebius" has shown a connection to the "Mega Monster Battle" world. Of course, "Ultraseven" is also branched and connected to the Heisei Seven series, so be aware that this timeline is only one of the infinite "Future of possibilities".)
(The Infinitely Expanding World of Mebius The ever-expanding world of "Ultraman Mebius" continues to expand, not only during its on-air run, but also after the series ended, with a series of post-episodes, "Super Galaxy Taisen" (2007) and "Armored Darkness" (2008), and parallel stories based on the same setting are being simultaneously told in multiple media. The expansion of the series knows no bounds, with parallel stories based on the same setting being simultaneously told in multiple media. Here we will take a look at the Mebius Saga as it has been presented in various media up to the latest work, "Armored Darkness". Officially, the video works are considered the "official history," but as seen in the latest movie and "Mega Monster Battle," it seems that the Ultra world is a multiverse with countless parallel worlds. If so, then these stories that stand side by side across space-time may be another "reality" that exists in another world. And this is the universe full of "infinite" possibilities that Mebius depicts, may be just a small part of it ....)
However, it's been repeatedly mentioned throughout the series that the multiverse is countless rather than infinite. So we have a total of three countless statements and two infinite statements for the multiverse. Another thing supporting the 2-A multiverse right now is the fact that Queen Izana states that there are still many uncharted areas of the multiverse even now. So to the characters they only know the multiverse is at least 2-B in size which doesn’t contradict the statement about the multiverse being 2-A. And here's another thing, as we brought up earlier in the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works they mentioned how there were infinite 無限 (Mugen) parallel universes but in the actual movie itself during this scene they said there were countless 無数 (Musuu) parallel universes.
Which means from the looks of it countless may or may not be considered infinite in the Ultra Series. So my proposal now would be rather than throwing away 2-B or ignoring the 2-A statements we should just use both. So the Ultra Series Multiverse should be upgraded to At least 2-B, likely 2-A due to these statements. Pokemon already does something similar with their cosmology so I guess we can follow suit due to there being statements and arguments for both 2-B and 2-A.
Currently the only thing that scales to the full multiverse cosmology would be the Eternity Core which is stated to be able to destroy all universes should it go out of control.
So first to start it off I was thinking we should remove Jack scaling to Zetton which caused everybody in the Showa Era to scale to 4-B Ultraman Ace onwards. Reasons being Jack most likely got an Empowerment boost right before his battle with Zetton II. Right before the battle Hideki Go (Jack) was thinking of going into the battle against Zetton as if it were a suicide mission with the fate of the Earth at stake. Ultras are shown to be able to get a humongous boost in power when they go into battle in a specific state of mind such as wanting to protect others or the planet.
In the battle against Black King its shown that not even Jack's Ultra Bracelet attacks which are far more powerful than his normal beam can scratch it. But in his rematch after gaining an empowerment boost due to Ultraman and Seven's friendship he just straight up defeated Black King in physical combat and chopped off its head. And it is mentioned in the ODF databook that Black King is hundreds of times (At least 200x) more powerful than Red King who is on par with Ultraman and Jack. Plus this is a statement from another databook
According to one saying in the battle against the saucer beasts due to the loss of many people, Leo's sadness, hate, anger, and all kinds of other emotions allowed his beam to become tens of thousands of times stronger then normal. It is been said that it has power that is comparable to the Cosmo Miracle Ray and the Space Q. So Ultras' empowerment boost are stated to be able amp their power by not just hundreds of times but also tens of thousands of times depending on the level of their emotions.
Not to mention Ultraman who had lost to a weaker Zetton I in the past also didn't think Jack could win and told Jack to not fight Zetton II. So rather than assuming that by the end of the series Jack somehow grew thousands of times stronger to defeat Zetton. I think it is better to assume that Jack defeated Zetton with an empowerment boost that Ultras are shown use multiple times throughout the series. So my proposal is early Showa characters get downgraded from 4-B to High 4-C. Though by multipliers and scaling a few characters would still reach just above baseline 4-B by the end of the Showa Era. Like scaling wise
Astra >= Leo > Taro 20x> Ace > Seven =< Jack w/ Ultra Bracelet >> Bemstar = SN1054 Supernova (1 Foe)
So Taro is much stronger than 20 Foe while 4-B starts at 22.77 Foe. That's just a 1.1385x gap there. So BoS Leo could arguably be baseline 4-B due to being stronger than Taro who is far stronger than 20 Foe. Though I think a staff said upscaling from a multiplied value is not allowed or something so I'm not sure if Leo can be 4-B. I guess we should let a staff decide if upscaling is allowed in this case. Though End of Showa Era Ultra Brothers would still be 4-B due to them scaling to 80 who is at least 9x stronger than Taro during his series.
Multiverse Upgrade
So currently we have the Ultra Series Multiverse as having Countless x Countless universes due to their being countless universes that have branched off from the current multiverse which consists of countless universes. But Omazio2019 brought up this databook statement from the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works which states that there are infinite parallel universes.
(Ultra brothers watching over Zero's success
In the land of M78 Nebula, the Ultra brothers are watching Ultraman Zero, who has left for another universe, "Another Space." The Ultra brothers were worried that a terrifying plot was underway somewhere in the infinite parallel universes, knowing that a mysterious spaceship was carrying monsters away from the monster graveyard. And I believed that Ultraman Zero would overthrow that scheme.)
And it was also brought up on discord that this question and statement from Origin Saga exists. Gai's question was how many universe are there and Musashi's answer is there are as many universes as there are possibilities. And in the Ultra Series it has been repeatedly stated that there are infinite possibilities.
(The era of Ultra series The world depicted in the Showa Ultra series and "Ultraman Mebius" has shown a connection to the "Mega Monster Battle" world. Of course, "Ultraseven" is also branched and connected to the Heisei Seven series, so be aware that this timeline is only one of the infinite "Future of possibilities".)
(The Infinitely Expanding World of Mebius The ever-expanding world of "Ultraman Mebius" continues to expand, not only during its on-air run, but also after the series ended, with a series of post-episodes, "Super Galaxy Taisen" (2007) and "Armored Darkness" (2008), and parallel stories based on the same setting are being simultaneously told in multiple media. The expansion of the series knows no bounds, with parallel stories based on the same setting being simultaneously told in multiple media. Here we will take a look at the Mebius Saga as it has been presented in various media up to the latest work, "Armored Darkness". Officially, the video works are considered the "official history," but as seen in the latest movie and "Mega Monster Battle," it seems that the Ultra world is a multiverse with countless parallel worlds. If so, then these stories that stand side by side across space-time may be another "reality" that exists in another world. And this is the universe full of "infinite" possibilities that Mebius depicts, may be just a small part of it ....)
However, it's been repeatedly mentioned throughout the series that the multiverse is countless rather than infinite. So we have a total of three countless statements and two infinite statements for the multiverse. Another thing supporting the 2-A multiverse right now is the fact that Queen Izana states that there are still many uncharted areas of the multiverse even now. So to the characters they only know the multiverse is at least 2-B in size which doesn’t contradict the statement about the multiverse being 2-A. And here's another thing, as we brought up earlier in the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works they mentioned how there were infinite 無限 (Mugen) parallel universes but in the actual movie itself during this scene they said there were countless 無数 (Musuu) parallel universes.
Which means from the looks of it countless may or may not be considered infinite in the Ultra Series. So my proposal now would be rather than throwing away 2-B or ignoring the 2-A statements we should just use both. So the Ultra Series Multiverse should be upgraded to At least 2-B, likely 2-A due to these statements. Pokemon already does something similar with their cosmology so I guess we can follow suit due to there being statements and arguments for both 2-B and 2-A.
Currently the only thing that scales to the full multiverse cosmology would be the Eternity Core which is stated to be able to destroy all universes should it go out of control.
Last edited:
