The Tragic Purge of WWE...

[RandomGuy2345]

I would be fine with injuries that the characters got in middle of their matches, things like Adam Cole broken rib which was commented in the middle of the fight when it happened and showed. But cases like Tyson vertigo are different because while originated from the effects a match had in his body, he didn't discovered it until the next day on his home, and Tyson didn't even revealed the information about what he as person was suffering years after, so is something quite different to an injury that Kenny Omega could had suffered in a match, it would be like mentioning the injuries/conditions that an actor had while playing a role in said character profile (like mentioning Deep finger injury in Jack Sparrow's profile or Halley Berre broken ribs while filming Bruished be mentioned in her Jackie profile), it's a bit the same with Kurt example

So, my question to the staff is, if the point of this new rules is to differenciate the person from the character and make clear the distinction between reality and fiction, should this type of things be allowed in the profiles?

I firmly agree with your take, though I already explained the Kurt Angle situation.

You can look up "kurt angle wwe segment", and there's a solid (not 100%) chance there will be a mention about Kurt Angle winning the gold medal with a broken neck.

 

[BoastJr]

snip

That is entirely fair as staff votes holds the only weight in this matter as per current rules.However, I do wish to hear other "non staff" member's opinion regarding this matter.Everyone is allowed to voice an opinion and hopefully it can sway staff members in the right direction

 

[Deagonx]

Staff votes may determine the outcome, but it can still be helpful to include member votes as an indication to the staff members what the general consensus is. It is sometimes the case that staff consensus directly opposes the non-staff consensus (this is most often the case when a specious upgrade receive blind agrees from many verse supporters, in popular verses) but it can still be helpful to have that information readily available. For my part, if I see that many users have a certain opinion, or see that users who I tend to find reasonable have a certain opinion, it can lead me to apply further scrutiny to my own assessment if I find myself at odds with them.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Btw, would holding any championship be enough to keep some of the wrestlers, since as champs, they are always the centre of a storyline?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'll count staff votes for now and go from there.

Btw, would holding any championship be enough to keep some of the wrestlers, since as champs, they are always the centre of a storyline?

Depends on the championship they held and the significance of the reign.

 

[DivineAura44]

Theory is one of the top stars in WWE currently. Hell, most of the profiles we have currently are mostly wrestlers who can be considered top stars in the company.

People like James Ellsworth and Brooklyn Brawler, who don't do much other than job to other wrestlers shouldn't be allowed imo, as their role in the narrative isn't significant in the slightest.

This argument is very subjective. Ellsworth was a major title contender for the WWE Championship when Styles held the gold. There are no measures you can make to say who is and isn't a major star, it's arbitrary.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Depends on the championship they held and the significance of the reign.

Well, Cena and Orton are 15-time world champs

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Updated the votes tally (staff only for now).

Tell me if I missed anything.

 

[Pikaman]

So this is where it’s at? Thanks for the update Random, I might have time to look at this later

 

[DemonicDude]

if you're gonna be wiping multiple time world champions from the verse, just nuke the verse.

Disagree with the take.
It's not about how many times. It's about the story and the characters and The lore of the verse.

If someone approaches me and tells me that they are "A 20 time WWE champion". I would actually kind of laugh, Because to me it's simply means that you are a 20 times loser, you LOST the belt 20 times.

It's not about how many times you have win the championship it's about the stories and what you have did for the verse.
Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin are examples of generational superstars, Heroes to billions around the world during their prime era.
However none of those people had 10 or 15 championship reigns. (They either had a one or two very long year title reigns or meaningful storylines for a couple of months/years)

Infact some of the greatest WWE superstars from different era who has elevated the verse in several ways never even won World or WWE championship.

Greatest 25 Wrestlers To Have Never Won The WWE Championship

The following slide show contains 25 wrestlers from the WWE who I feel should have won the WWE Championship on one or more occasions during their tenure with the company...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

 

[pineappleman]

Disagree with the take.
It's not about how many times. It's about the story and the characters and The lore of the verse.

If someone approaches me and tells me that they are "A 20 time WWE champion". I would actually kind of laugh, Because to me it's simply means that you are a 20 times loser, you LOST the belt 20 times.

It's not about how many times you have win the championship it's about the stories and what you have did for the verse.
Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin are examples of generational superstars, Heroes to billions around the world during their prime era.
However none of those people had 10 or 15 championship reigns.

Infact some of the greatest WWE superstars from different era who has elevated the verse in several ways never even won World or WWE championship.

Greatest 25 Wrestlers To Have Never Won The WWE Championship

The following slide show contains 25 wrestlers from the WWE who I feel should have won the WWE Championship on one or more occasions during their tenure with the company...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

for the record, i'm against nuking Cena and Lesnar's pages

 

[DemonicDude]

for the record, i'm against nuking Cena and Lesnar's pages

Same for me also...
Isn't Brock Lesnar a both WWE wrestler and UFC fighter so obviously he appeared in UFC games too...

WWE directly mentions how he destroyed his UFC opponents and namedrops them and in 2023 UFC company endeavor brought WWE

So if someone were to make UFC Games verse on this website would Brock not be allowed there as well?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Same for me also...
Isn't Brock Lesnar a both WWE wrestler and UFC fighter so obviously he appeared in UFC games too...

WWE directly mentions how he destroyed his UFC opponents and namedrops them and in 2023 UFC company endeavor brought WWE

So if someone were to make UFC Games verse on this website would Brock not be allowed there as well?

No, as UFC games are technically fictional. By that logic, WWE games wouldn't be allowed.

Disagree with the take.
It's not about how many times. It's about the story and the characters and The lore of the verse.

If someone approaches me and tells me that they are "A 20 time WWE champion". I would actually kind of laugh, Because to me it's simply means that you are a 20 times loser, you LOST the belt 20 times.

It's not about how many times you have win the championship it's about the stories and what you have did for the verse.
Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin are examples of generational superstars, Heroes to billions around the world during their prime era.
However none of those people had 10 or 15 championship reigns. (They either had a one or two very long year title reigns or meaningful storylines for a couple of months/years)

Infact some of the greatest WWE superstars from different era who has elevated the verse in several ways never even won World or WWE championship.

Greatest 25 Wrestlers To Have Never Won The WWE Championship

The following slide show contains 25 wrestlers from the WWE who I feel should have won the WWE Championship on one or more occasions during their tenure with the company...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

COOK!

So this is where it’s at? Thanks for the update Random, I might have time to look at this later

Unfortunately, yes, but it is what it is.

 

[Deagonx]

So if someone were to make UFC Games verse on this website would Brock not be allowed there as well?

UFC games almost certainly wouldn't be allowed, as everyone on the rosters are real people, only a tiny fraction of which have a fictional persona of any kind.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

UFC games almost certainly wouldn't be allowed, as everyone on the rosters are real people, only a tiny fraction of which have a fictional persona of any kind.

I stand corrected, then.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

UFC games almost certainly wouldn't be allowed, as everyone on the rosters are real people, only a tiny fraction of which have a fictional persona of any kind.

Do you have an opinion on this thread, Deagon?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will reiterate that being a major character is not actually a saving point for these guys- it is a requirement to remain, not an argument against the fact that they directly counter our rules regarding reality-fiction, most explicitly regarding the nomenclature bit.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Can someone help explain the key differences in WWE Cena and IRL Cena?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Saying a verse should be removed cause of One character is nothing more than a "personal opinion".

My bad, I thought all the profiles you mentioned in the thread should be deleted...

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I pretty much agree with the outcomes on the list, but neutral on "The Rock".

 

[Antvasima]

From what I understand, the site rules for Stage Personas were recently changed, and this thread is regarding which WWE stage personas should be allowed to stay and which should be removed with these new rules in mind?

I am admittedly very unfamiliar with WWE personas, and I'm only reviewing the recent rule changes as I write this, so my opinion here isn't particularly authoritative. That being said, the rules are clear enough that I believe I can offer some insights.

Probably the biggest contention I have is around how we should treat John Cena versus how we should treat Randy Orton. It is acknowledged in the OP that John Cena should be removed, despite playing a major role in the narrative and being highly distinct from the IRL Cena, because his name is the same as his IRL counterpart. Yet the OP also states that Randy Orton should stay, despite his name being Randal Orton, because he plays a major role in the narrative and is highly distinct from his IRL self. As Bambu has already mentioned, "Randy" is just short for "Randal", so Randy Orton's name isn't really any different to his IRL counterpart - you could call his IRL counterpart "Randy Orton" as well and it'd be just as valid.

I'm sure my problem here is clear, but to spell it out; John Cena and Randy Orton are, for all intents and purposes, in the same boat. They're both major characters in the WWE narrative who are highly distinct from their IRL selves, but share the same name as their IRL selves. If we get rid of one, we should get rid of the other. If we keep one, we should keep the other. And to be honest, I'm not sure which is more appropriate.

To quote the Stage Persona rules:

"Characters whose names are the same as real actors are generally not allowed in order to maintain a clear distinction between the character and the real-world person, and to minimize the potential for confusion by blurring fiction and reality. However, exceptions may be considered for specific fictional verses where the use of real names is a deliberate creative choice that aligns with the established narrative style and does not undermine the intended separation between fiction and reality.

- In the case of WWE or similar contexts, stricter scrutiny would be applied to ensure a proper separation between the fictional characters and the real actors."

Is the use of John Cena's and Randy Orton's IRL names a deliberate creative choice? I honestly don't know, and I would like input from people who might know. If you were to ask me, though, I'd consider the point about "not undermining the intended separation between fiction and reality" as the most important factor; I wouldn't mind keeping profiles that share the same name as their IRL actors as long as we can draw a clear line between where the actor ends and the character begins. If we can't, I'd think it's best to remove it.

I'll reiterate that my take on this matter is that the profile should be allowed if we can draw a clear line between "the actor" and "the character".

I don't know WWE well, and so I don't know how clear the distinction is between "John Cena the actor" and "John Cena the character". If we can clearly distinguish the two, I'd be fine with allowing the profile to stay under the pretense we ensure the profile is kept to indexing "the character" and nothing more. If the line between the two is blurry, then no, I unfortunately don't think it should stay. The question of whether the line is clear or not isn't something I can answer.

This makes sense to me.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

In all fairness, when joining a wrestling promotion, you have a choice between picking a fictional name/pseudonym of sorts or your real name (or the promotion just assigns you to one of their choice). From that alone, I feel its safe to assume that Cena and Orton using their real names is kinda a creative choice, as in the end, they chose to use those names for their wrestling gimmick and identity.

And although this may be a bit off-topic, but Randy’s whole gimmick is that he’s some unstable schizophrenic that hears voices in his head, so that alone is pretty much just him playing a character, especially since Randy seems much different outside the ring. Just thought I’d add that.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bumpity

 

[DemonicDude]

In all fairness, when joining a wrestling promotion, you have a choice between picking a fictional name/pseudonym of sorts or your real name (or the promotion just assigns you to one of their choice). From that alone, I feel its safe to assume that Cena and Orton using their real names is kinda a creative choice, as, in the end, they chose to use those names for their wrestling gimmick and identity.

And although this may be a bit off-topic, but Randy’s whole gimmick is that he’s some unstable schizophrenic that hears voices in his head, so that alone is pretty much just him playing a character, especially since Randy seems much different outside the ring. Just thought I’d add that.

Daaaam Ennard....you spitting facts left, right, front and center.

Ennard W

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Are these enough staff votes to finally conclude everything?

I still feel like we need more discussion on whether or not Cena should be allowed.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Are these enough staff votes to finally conclude everything?

I still feel like we need more discussion on whether or not Cena should be allowed.

This is from Wikipedia. Cena's original gimmick portrayed a white rapper who wore jerseys, backwards hats, a chain with a padlock around his neck, and was known as the "Doctor of Thuganomics".[15][9] First as "The Prototype", and later under his real name, Cena sometimes used underhanded tactics to score victories, such as using his chain as a weapon behind the referee's back. Cena often rapped before his matches, insulting his opponents, events that happened in the media and even the crowd.[21] Cena also regularly performed "rap battles", where he and his opponent took turns rapping on each other.[16] In 2006, shortly after his debut film, The Marine, his wrestling character shifted from that of a rapper to a young military upstart, wearing dog tags and cargo shorts to the ring and also performing a salute to the crowd. Cena said in a 2011 interview with WWE.com that "every night when I do that salute, it's also a sign of respect to the men and women that don the uniform of the Armed Forces."[318]

 

[Antvasima]

Are these enough staff votes to finally conclude everything?

I still feel like we need more discussion on whether or not Cena should be allowed.

Should I call for our other administrators to this thread?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Should I call for our other administrators to this thread?

Yes, please.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bumpity

 

[RandomGuy2345]

In 2006, shortly after his debut film, The Marine, his wrestling character shifted from that of a rapper to a young military upstart, wearing dog tags and cargo shorts to the ring and also performing a salute to the crowd. Cena said in a 2011 interview with WWE.com that "every night when I do that salute, it's also a sign of respect to the men and women that don the uniform of the Armed Forces."[318]

To summarize this, from 2006-2014, Cena basically became an All-American Marine hero, similar to other iconic wrestlers like Hulk Hogan. His rapping persona from 2002-2005 was arguably an even more distinct personality from his goody two shoes babyface run.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Should I call for our other administrators to this thread?

Yes, please.

Bumpity

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bump

 

[Therefir]

How come are we deleting John Cena? He is like the face of the WWE, I couldn't care less if that's his real name or uses that name for other projects.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

How come are we deleting John Cena? He is like the face of the WWE, I couldn't care less if that's his real name or uses that name for other projects.

Him using his IRL name for his in ring persona is quite literally the only reason why his profile is on the verge of getting axed.

 

[Therefir]

Him using his IRL name for his in ring persona is quite literally the only reason why his profile is on the verge of getting axed.

That's ridiculous, the name "John Cena", his signature move, his entrance theme song, the nicknames, and any of his storylines are owned by WWE and Vince McMahon.

In fact, they still own the name even though Cena is no longer fully tied to WWE, he doesn't own the rights.

And his actual full name is "John Felix Anthony Cena, Jr."

Furthermore, being one of the main protagonists of his era and probably the most recognizable wrestler in WWE, deleting his profile is straight up silly.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

That's ridiculous, the name "John Cena", his signature move, his entrance theme song, the nicknames, and any of his storylines are owned by WWE and Vince McMahon.

In fact, they still own the name even though Cena is no longer fully tied to WWE, he doesn't own the rights.

And his actual full name is "John Felix Anthony Cena, Jr."

Furthermore, being one of the main protagonists of his era and probably the most recognizable wrestler in WWE, deleting his profile is straight up silly.

So what is your overall stance?

Agree on everything, disagree with John Cena?

 

[Therefir]

Agree on everything, disagree with John Cena?

John should be on the spared ones, and the Rock should probably go ("The Rock" name is owned by Dwayne and not WWE), but aside from that, I agree with everything else.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Vote tally looks sloppy asf, but it's the best my sick ass can do atm.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm going to point out that the idea that they didn't use his honorifics or middle name is not really relevant. You're free to interpret other things as you like, but the notion that they aren't using his full name to address him is an absurd point.

He's not an unruly child being scolded by his mother lol, he doesn't need to be addressed by his full written legal name for us to realize that, yes, his real name in real life is John Cena.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Oh right, I never gave my stance on this. I think James Ellsworth, Brooklyn Brawler and Eric Bischoff need to go, rest should stay.