The Time Ships: Verse & Cosmology Page Addition

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Back with another verse made by Baxter again (same author that made these guys). And it seems to be Tier 1 (who would've thought...), so I'm making a thread for its evaluation.

• Verse Page
• Cosmology Page
• Watchers' Profile

TLDR of the Cosmology (scans in the blog):

• Multiplicity: A multiverse that consists of infinite timelines. Each moment also gives birth to infinite more timelines. (2-A)
• Boundary: The realm that gave birth to the Multiplicity itself. A Platonic singularity/oneness which underlies all awareness. The light against which matter, events, and minds are mere shadows. There is no physics or structure in the Boundary. No distance, no measurement, no observation. It is all just "One". (Low 1-C)
• Optimal History: A boundless realm that lies beyond the Boundary. Even the Multiplicity and the Boundary are implied to be finite and less real in comparison to the Optimal History's boundlessness. (1-C)
• Multiplicity of Multiplicites/Hierarchy of Multiplicities: The Multiplicity only exists because of another greater Multiplicity, acting as a necessary higher order of time, and that greater Multiplicity in turn would require the existence of another greater Multiplicity to exist, and so on. This hierarchy is infinite and also equated to higher "orders of infinity". (High 1-B)

People are suggesting Low 1-C for the Multiplicity in the comments (as the structure would apparently have infinite^infinite timelines). If it's the case, then the Boundary consequently becomes 1-C (6-D) and the Optimal History 1-C (7-D).
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Staff votes:

• Agree: @Elizhaa, @Sir_Ovens, @Dereck03
• Disagree:
• Neutral:

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Bump

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[Vietthai96]

I disagree, that Platonic wank should be 1-A

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Well, after reading the blog, this is my opinion on the tier...

• Multiplicity (Honestly should be Low 1-C rather than 2-A considering its actually infinite timeline per each moment which would be infinite^infinite similar to MCU and MLP)
• Boundary (I am not so sure. It seem like it would qualify for direct R/F to 1-A considering it treated the Multiplicity as "shadow" but there may be certain anti feats that i may not notice. I don't think able to ascend past the Boundary from low level reality is considered as anti feat for 1-A. If it can't qualify then simply 1-C or 6D)
• Optimal History (It treats the "Boundary" as dream so if the the Boundary qualify for 1-A, it should be 1 layer above it. If not 7D)
• Hierarchies of Multiplicities (1-A+ if the above is accepted. If not High 1-B like you suggest)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Well, after reading the blog, this is my opinion on the tier...

• Multiplicity (Honestly should be Low 1-C rather than 2-A considering its actually infinite timeline per each moment which would be infinite^infinite similar to MCU and MLP)
• Boundary (I am not so sure. It seem like it would qualify for direct R/F to 1-A considering it treated the Multiplicity as "shadow" but there may be certain anti feats that i may not notice. I don't think able to ascend past the Boundary from low level reality is considered as anti feat for 1-A. If it can't qualify then simply 1-C or 6D)
• Optimal History (It treats the "Boundary" as dream so if the the Boundary qualify for 1-A, it should be 1 layer above it. If not 7D)
• Hierarchies of Multiplicities (1-A+ if the above is accepted. If not High 1-B like you suggest)

I dont think it can be 1-A since:

1. The Universal Constructors got Plattnerite (material used to fuel/build time ships) extracted from the sun and other stars for their time ships to reach the Boundary (which they did).
2. The Hierarchy of Multiplicities are like higher temporal dimensions/infinities, which are also above the Boundary and Optimal History.

About Low 1-C Multiplicity: Not sure, I'll leave that for people more familiar with the standards.

 

[Vietthai96]

Idc, make it 1-A or i will riot

Multiplicity: A multiverse that consists of infinite timelines. Each moment also gives birth to infinite more timelines. (2-A)

Low 1-C yes, since infinite^infinite, unless each moment here big moment

 

[CodeCCLL]

Matter Manipulation (Macro-Quantum. Far more advanced than the Constructors, who can manipulate matter at the most fundamental level[11])

The scans indicate that the most fundamental level of the matter in question is atomic and molecular levels. Of course, I don't think the author of a 1995 sci-fi novel was unaware of subatomic (1897) and quantum particles irl, but the novel has to describe the most fundamental level of matter as being the macro-quantum level/or equivalent, according to the wiki.

For this reason, I disagree with matter manipulation at the macro-quantum level, which I think is hypothetical; molecular and atomic matter manipulation makes more sense.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Matter Manipulation (Macro-Quantum. Far more advanced than the Constructors, who can manipulate matter at the most fundamental level[11])

The scans indicate that the most fundamental level of the matter in question is atomic and molecular levels. Of course, I don't think the author of a 1995 sci-fi novel was unaware of subatomic (1897) and quantum particles irl, but the novel has to describe the most fundamental level of matter as being the macro-quantum level/or equivalent, according to the wiki.

For this reason, I disagree with matter manipulation at the macro-quantum level, which I think is hypothetical; molecular and atomic matter manipulation makes more sense.

The reason why I opted for Macro-Quantum is because it's not only described as the "most fundamental level of matter" but also "sub-atomic". Apparently there are no particles beyond the Sub-Atomic classification in physics, with even quarks and leptons being part of it (which would be Macro-Quantum in the wiki). The "Macro-Quantum" name is made up by the wiki, we cant expect authors to mention it. So, with the verse mentioning both "sub-atomic" and "most fundamental level of matter" I thought it was fair to put it as Macro-Quantum. Perhaps a "Sub-Atomic, possibly Macro-Quantum" could work too. If not, then I dont mind it staying at Sub-Atomic either.

 

[CodeCCLL]

but also "sub-atomic"

Do statements about molecules and atoms and sub-atomic transmutation take place in the same general context? If so, sub-atomic is fine.

Apparently there are no particles beyond the Sub-Atomic classification in science, with even quarks and leptons being part of it (which would be Macro-Quantum in the wiki). The "Macro-Quantum" name is made up by the wiki. So, with the verse mentioning both "sub-atomic" and "most fundamental level of matter" I thought it was fair to put it as Macro-Quantum. Perhaps a Sub-Atomic, possibly Macro-Quantum could work too. If not, then I dont mind it staying at Sub-Atomic either.

Every particles smaller than an atom is called sub-atomic particles [1]. The term sub-atomic transmutation can be considered a safe assumption that characters can manipulate matter at the proton and neutron level, but it still seems hypothetical to me that the character in question can manipulate quarks and leptons (maqro-quantum level) without any extra justification.

Yes, the existence of quarks is often ignored in fiction, and the electron in particular is often treated as equivalent to the proton and neutron. But there doesn't seem to be anything here to indicate that the electrons are being manipulated, so it still wouldn't be enough for the macro-quantum level.

 

[Elizhaa]

People are suggesting Low 1-C for the Multiplicity in the comments (as the structure would apparently have infinite^infinite timelines). If it's the case, then the Boundary consequently becomes 1-C (6-D) and the Optimal History 1-C (7-D).

Low 1-C from uncountable infinite, Aleph-one—the smallest uncountable infinite, would be more than infinite ^ infinite ^ infinite... (repeated infinitely), from my talk with Aeyu, who is working on the tiering system; infinite ^ infinite ^ infinite ^ infinite repeated to an infinite number of times is a countable ordinal (infinite), Epsilon naught. All countable infinites are the same size; though, they might vary in range.
I think the multiverse is larger than Aleph-null ( countable infinity) because Aleph-null represents sets like the integers or rational numbers, which can be matched one-to-one with natural numbers with bijection, even if unintuitively large. In contrast, uncountable infinity, like the real numbers, is fundamentally bigger because there is no way to list or enumerate all possibilities—even between any two points, there are infinitely many outcomes that can't be captured in a countable sequence. This distinction applies to the multiverse: the branching of worlds at every moment mirrors the real numbers' dense, continuous structure, making the set of histories uncountably infinite and vastly larger than countable infinity.

• https://math.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Combinatorics_and_Discrete_Mathematics/An_Introduction_to_Number_Theory_(Veerman)/01:_A_Quick_Tour_of_Number_Theory/1.04:_Countable_and_Uncountable_Sets

So, I am largerly fine with the update tiers and High 1-B.


Sub-Atomic matter manipulation is probably the safest science. Edit: I am somewhat fine with any option after re-reading.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Multiplicty should be Low 1-C, yeah. It's in line with uncountably infinite universes since each moment splinters into infinite other realities.

I'm in agreement with everything else.

 

[Dereck03]

I'm in agreement with Low 1-C for the Multiplicity.

High 1-B based on the infinity hierarchies is fine as well.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Thanks for the input. Seems like there is enough agreements to apply the changes. I'll do them in a sec.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The changes have been applied. This thread can be closed now.