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The Thorn Princess vs The Cleaner (Spy × Family Vs The Best Bout Machine)

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Veloxt1r0kore said:
Flex it against the G O R I L L A
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Nah I'm good.

CKlfmsD.png
 
Pikaman said:
No. They’re two distinctly different moments

Kenny used his teleportation to get around, The Demon used it to get the jump on a group of opponents

One is far more easily argued as combat applicable than the other
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I have counter arguments to this so I'll post them when the actual CRT is made.
 
What the hell happened when I was sleeping, starts off with Yor FRA, then Kenny FRA and now Incon FRA
Tanin_iver said:
Anyways I haven't voted for anyone yet, I was just arguing for Kenny.
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After carefully analyzing both the characters, I am voting for Yor as she can do this which makes all of Kenny's silly abilities irrelevant as he has no counter.
Scary Aura GG.
She also starts off with a notable skill advantage, LS advantage, agility and acrobatics while Kenny will only be playing catch up with his overhyped AD and power mimicry.
assassin-yor-forger.gif

She spooks him so hard that he can't do anything and then pokes him with her poison needles and gets the kill.
The Thorn Princess keeps her flawless Assassin record as the finest Assassin of Garden.
 
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Scary Aura is not going to work because. A- Kenny has strong will power and B- be he defeated Minoru Suzuki who everyone scares so much that when he makes his entrance he literally beats people up and no one tries to fight back (This is especially pointed out by commentators, Described as Hannibal Lector with a wrestling backgrounds)
Kenny said that he feels scared and when he looks into the eyes of Suzuki he felt it for a few seconds too in the fight he was seen at first Shaking with fear ........... but he then overcame his fears and defeated him which shocked the commentators so his willpower and ability to face Fear users will not stop him.

 
DemonicDude said:
Kenny said that he feels scared and when he looks into the eyes of Suzuki he felt it for a few seconds too in the fight he was seen at first Shaking with fear ........... but he then overcame his fears and defeated him which shocked the commentators so his willpower and ability to face Fear users will not stop him.
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You have actually reinforced my argument. That is just enough time for Yor actually; peak human speed --> 30 mts --> a few seconds to close the gap and poke him with her poison needles and kill him.
Btw this can be a small RE feat for Kenny I suppose.
 
This was Kenny in his early career, During this time Kenny hasn't ever became a World Champion it's his start as a solid mid card fighter climbing his way to the top, After which he faced people most dangerous than Suzuki in Okada and Shibata.
Also Kenny over coming his fear in his early career should not be an issue for the present day god of professional wrestling he's evolved since then.
And him being a cyborg is not going to allow for a sneak attack due to homing target.
 
DemonicDude said:
This was Kenny in his early career, During this time Kenny hasn't ever became a World Champion it's his start as a solid mid card fighter climbing his way to the top, After which he faced people most dangerous than Suzuki in Okada and Shibata.
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Her fear aura works on comparable and stronger foes and she has scared even highly intelligent dogs as well as a giant bull too so it is safe to assume it will work on animals.
DemonicDude said:
And him being a cyborg is not going to allow for a peak in attack due to homing target.
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I'm not sure what u meant by this, but his cyborgization is unknown as to how much and isn't helping if his scared to react properly. Her poison btw is potent enough to even kill elephants and she is an expert at pressure points. In fact she incapacitated even a giant bull with pressure points.
 
He for the entire fight wasn't scared of Suzuki only for the first couple of seconds after which he wasn't bothered by it nor did it slow down any of his movements nor was he shocked.
Fight with Suzuki goes to show you his rapid adaptation.
Kenny has survived PTSd too.
During his free time in personal life

  • Omega trained for Zero hours instead went to a Trauma and shock giving japanese Horror Amusement park
    (This upset NJPW Company because Omega would've gotten a brain shock or trauma and filimng on this horror themed park was not allowed either as cameras from Omega and Young Bucks were taken on the entrance that idiot did all this ONE NIGHT Before his big PPV even match) goofing around and still won against Okada the world champion shocking everyone, proving he doesn't need training to enter a match an is not scared either that changed his life forever becoming the face of the company.
    According to Kenny can not even describe what they did with him off screen showing giving various light machines and PSTD type of color blinking trauma as they have him go through multiple PTSD tests and was not allowed to leave the park by the officials until he fully completes his session essentially putting his life in danger literally one night before his world championship match.

Kenny has been through this before and fight with Suzuki this early in his career further solidify his resistance to such fear in combat.
 
DemonicDude said:
Omega trained for Zero hours instead went to a Trauma and shock giving japanese Horror Amusement park

According to Kenny can not even describe what they did with him off screen showing giving various light machines and PSTD type of color blinking trauma as they have him go through multiple PTSD tests and was not allowed to leave the park by the officials until he fully completes his session essentially putting his life in danger literally one night before his world championship match.
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I didn't see anything about PTSD in that scan. It just tells about a Halloween themed park that is very thrilling nothing about PTSD.
Now, this is what u would call real PTSD.

DemonicDude said:
Scary Aura is not going to work because. A- Kenny has strong will power and B- be he defeated Minoru Suzuki who everyone scares so much that when he makes his entrance he literally beats people up and no one tries to fight back (This is especially pointed out by commentators, Described as Hannibal Lector with a wrestling backgrounds)
Kenny said that he feels scared and when he looks into the eyes of Suzuki he felt it for a few seconds too in the fight he was seen at first Shaking with fear ........... but he then overcame his fears and defeated him which shocked the commentators so his willpower and ability to face Fear users will not stop him.

Omega defeated the likes of Minoru Suzuki who is the originator of MMA & founder the Pancrase martial arts Promotion and an NJPW legend feared by everyone in the company who defeated Ken Shamrock via submission yet lost to kenny in first time ever match which shocked the commentators.
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You are giving way too much credit to Minoru Suzuki which is at best intimidation and not fearsome aura because neither the audience or even the referee was affected by it and Kenny is only mildly intimidated by it at best.
While compared to this and this which shows Yor being so fearsome that they get incapacitated with fear and unable to do anything and it affects even others nearby and even animals.

To top it all off he doesn't even have resistance to aura and fear hax in his profiles.
So I stand by what I said, Kenny gets fear haxed and poisoned/pressure points.
 
Tanin_iver said:
You are giving way too much credit to Minoru Suzuki which is at best intimidation and not fearsome aura because neither the audience or even the referee was affected by it and Kenny is only mildly intimidated by it at best.
While compared to this and this which shows Yor being so fearsome that they get incapacitated with fear and unable to do anything and it affects even others nearby and even animals.
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I'm simply explaining that he is the most feared wrestler and he takes out everyone during his entrance which is described as people fear from him so much their are not able to fight against him when he charges at them as he is described as a ****** (This is a canon thing 1, 2) I'm not giving him extra credit it's part of his character.

Tanin_iver said:
I didn't see anything about PTSD in that scan. It just tells about a Halloween themed park that is very thrilling nothing about PTSD.
Now, this is what u would call real PTSD.
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Reading that website link is not going to give you the scan watching their show will.
So I will post the Scan here (Scan Video)

if people will go to this legenths to decredit Kenny then I as a debater will go legths beyond PLUS ULTRA to counter argument with actual scans something most people don't even do. The amount of hours of library of fights, Commentator statements and scans I need to get for this fight yet get's called out for X is not right or Y is not usable by people who uses the same abilities in their versus battle matches is tough to deal with but I'll still maintain my courage and professionalism.
 
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Giving my two cents, since Kenny doesn't have any resistance towards fear manip and/or supernatural willpower to just his guts to ignore the fear on his profile, so he would probably get stunned by Yor's fear aura and just get one-tapped by Yor's poison on purely what we have on the profiles, atm... Although, from what I have been hearing from DD, Kenny likely deserves to have supernatural willpower on his profile, imo.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Giving my two cents, since Kenny doesn't have any resistance towards fear manip and/or supernatural willpower to just his guts to ignore the fear on his profile, so he would probably get stunned by Yor's fear aura and just get one-tapped by Yor's poison on purely what we have on the profiles, atm... Although, from what I have been hearing from DD, Kenny likely deserves to have supernatural willpower on his profile, imo.
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DemonicDude said:
Reading that website link is not going to give you the scan watching their show will.
So I will post the Scan here (Scan Video)
Click to expand...
PLS tell me you saw the scans before maing this comment.
 
I think I should take some hours of break, Going through lots of mental anxiety and depression right now. Life is very unfair. I don't want my emotional pain to give you people vibes that I'm aggresive or hates anyone
I'm just broken.... right now 😢 I don't even have the will to engage in debates that's how I feel.
 
Just giving my two cents is all.
DemonicDude said:
I think I should take some hours of break, Going through lots of mental anxiety and depression right now. Life is very unfair. I don't want my emotional pain to give you people vibes that I'm aggresive or hates anyone
I'm just broken.... right now 😢 I don't knew have will to engage in debates that's how I feel.
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Oof. It's no probs. Been in that headspace myself, for various reasons. And if it makes you feel better, never thought you were aggresive or anything. Just passionate for your verse, tis' all.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Just giving my two cents is all.

Oof. It's no probs. Been in that headspace myself, for various reasons. And if it makes you feel better, never thought you were aggresive or anything. Just passionate for your verse, tis' all.
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Thank you, here is a hug 🤗
Even tho I went through all this I went and gathered the scans above.
I just hate my life... I'm not myself, I'm just really really hurt. I don't have a strong Will like Kenny Omega who refuse to break down and follow what people forces on him.
I can't believe a pathetic guy like me even tries to defend such an elite persona of wrestling come to think of it wow the irony is just insane.
 
DemonicDude said:
Thank you, here is a hug 🤗
Even tho I went through all this I went and gathered the scans above.
I just hate my life... I'm not myself, I'm just really really hurt. I don't have a strong Will like Kenny Omega who refuse to break down and follow what people forces on him.
I can't believe a pathetic guy like me even tries to defend such an elite persona of wrestling come to think of it wow the irony is just insane.
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Yeah. I think it's best for you to calm down a bit instead of continuing debating.

And while yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking up to a pro wrestler as a role model, using his career to bring you down mentally and emotionally isn't good at all for you.
 
Come to think of it me losing, winning or practically doing anything in this debate doesn't really mean anything right ! .....I mean it's not like we all gain something from this or anything then why do we even do things ?

Ah mann wow ! I can't believe that I literally wrote that. I think these comments alone goes to show you I'm just NOT right at all 😔
I'm sorry for everything okay, I need time to heal or something
 
DemonicDude said:
I think I should take some hours of break, Going through lots of mental anxiety and depression right now. Life is very unfair. I don't want my emotional pain to give you people vibes that I'm aggresive or hates anyone
I'm just broken.... right now 😢 I don't even have the will to engage in debates that's how I feel.
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Hey chill man. U were not at all aggressive, just passionately supporting ur character and putting so much extra efforts that I am quite impressed. I will admit I had the most fun in debating with u and everyone else in this thread. And u don't have to take it way too seriously this is just a hobby for everyone including u and me.
If u feel u need to take some time off from debating please do. You have fought hard and well and u deserve a break if u need it.
DemonicDude said:
if people will go to this legenths to decredit Kenny then I as a debater will go legths beyond PLUS ULTRA to counter argument with actual scans something most people don't even do.
Click to expand...
This I like and admire of u, such perseverance is an admirable thing to have.
Here's a hug from me too 🤗
 
I feel people were really underestimating Yor acrobatics and Kenny ability to deal with it, like I seriously doubt anyone in AEW/NJPW can do things even close to what she is able (like her casual acrobatics in middle of the city to give something to Anya, her moves that let her dodge a ranged unknow weapon without be grazed and defeat her enemy, her casual killing moves in front of Anya, etc., many of said feats which she can do again considering that they are in the middle of a city).

She also actually have the range advantage since a shotgun don't have that much range, meanwhile Yor can fire throw her stilettos really far and the same apply with other objects, so she is actually the one able to range abuse, she also have ridiculosly better aim and accuracy (which made me ask why Kenny have listed Expert Marksmanship to begin with by giving a kick to someone in midair, that's so bizarre and wrong that I'm genuinely spechless). Let's also remember that they are in a city, which mean that there are a bunch of objects around that she can easily use as projectiles so in terms of who can last more in a range battle Yor have the upper hand since Kenny shotgun don't have infinite ammuniton.

And this last bit about who can last more in a range battle made me remember that Yor also have a ridiculosly higher stamina than Kenny who best feat seem to be fight for 1:09:49 minutes against Yor who can last three days in combat mode and even continued to act an entire day with a bullet wound. Yor very clearly outlast baddly Kenny so he would be the one who need to end the fight quick, because if otherwise became an endurance battle Yor will win by a large margin.

Regarding the Analytical Prediction/Precognition, people are really overstimating Kenny if they believe that because he can do things like this he is some sort of skill god that know everything that the enemy will and thus is untouchable, that is normal prediction and dodging that people who fight are able to do, by that logic Yor would also have it for dodging multiple attacks and defeat the kusarigama assassin. Though even if we considered that his Analytical Prediction is actually impressive (which I at least don't think so), the simple fact that Yor in a fight is a great threat to the ******* Twilight already show that Kenny Analytical Prediction isn't going to do shit against Yor, unless one genuinely believe that Kenny have at least comparable or better Analytical Prediction (and also Information Analysis) that Loid, in which case I believe nothing of what I or others say will actually matter.

Regarding the Power Mimicry, he can't copy her fighting style because 1) He don't wield weapons like her 2) He isn't remotely close to be as agile or acrobatic as her 3) Do to his buffed constitution trying to do moves so graceful will be hard and will put him in a bad spot, I also doubt his body is as flexible as Yor 4) Copy the fighting style that she master will only make him a easier target because she know the best the strong and weak points of her fighting style, along with the things that are harder to face with it 5) From the clips in the profile it looks like he imitated and used the opponent moves when they were stunned/tired, so I don't really believe he would actively seek to use the enemy style in middle of combat.

About his Instinctive Reaction/Action, don't know how is supposed that this clip of Kenny attacking someone after be immobilized for some seconds is supposed to be in the same level as Yor dodging a surprise spear attack inches away from her face while distracted from seeing the beauty of nature or dodge and counterattack a surprise sniper attack while protecting someone, like seriously, why both are even compared in this.

About the invisible chainsaw, you know that the thing do a lot of sound (which defeat the surprise factor of be invisible), right? You also know that a dude literally in the floor could defend against it and even use it against Kenny (a dude who I doubt had the same great LS advantage that Yor have against Kenny by upscaling above a 7753.97kg feat against Kenny scaling to someone who can lift a person that weigh 163.29kg... why is Kenny Class 5 if that is his best feat listed?), right? You also know that even after Kenny leg was cut with the thing there was no blood or wound (which make doubious how good of a weapon actually is), right? There are so many problems with the invisible chainsaw that I don't know why was considered a win con against Yor.

The stealth argument, the simple fact that she can hide and surprise Twilight with all his stupid senses already reject any possibility of Kenny sensing her, unless in his verse there is someone with senses at least comparables to Loid, which I sincerely doubt but I'm open to be corrected with scans showing someone at the level of Loid. The argument about the robotic eye following his target is good... if she stay all the time in his field of vision, which isn't going to happen if she use her stealth abilitites, the dudes in the video were also standing still so is uncertain how good the look on will be against someone so acrobatic and agile, in the video seems like it only analyzed and followed one target at the time so he can be at quite the disadvantage against various targets in the case that Yor throw things (her stiletto or any object in general) and that is more the case if she also choose to close the distance while doing so, she can lure him to dark places were he can't see or use objects to cover his field of vision.

The pressure points of Kenny seem to rely more in use great force to damage the opponent while Yor rely more in pure tecnique as she only need three taps from her fingertips to take down a cow or a large man, not going to say that his is just pure brute force because one really need technique to do moves like those but definitely isn't a super refined and graceful pressure point technique like Yor who can take down in a moment her target regardless of healthy the other side can be.

The teleportation part, I would like to see clips in which he spam it because from all the videos I have saw until now I haven't see him really using it to dodge attacks, surprise attack the enemy, close the distance, open the distance, or really use it in general, so if so far he don't really use it that way it can't be really argued that he will now be using it against Yor, there is also the fact that Yor instincts and senses can help her to react against it. It also seem like Kenny need to do a pose for seconds to teleport and after teleport he continue in said pose? The link send earlier don't load to me so I can't really see the clip but if that is really the case then is even more doubtful that in middle of a combat where every second matter and each gap give a chance to die he will choose to use it.

And this is something also important but Kenny fights don't really seem to involve death that much, yes the fighters get hurt, in various cases with serious wounds, but they don't seem to be deathly fights were the only result is to kill or be killed, meanwhile Yor especiality is precisely that, her whole training and years working as assassin where for that, so her entire fighting style and mindset is focused in kill, which means that Kenny have to face something that he normally don't experience and against what he don't have much experience. If is for the sake of killing him she will gadly take one attack, even serious ones, if that mean that she get the chance to kill him, and with her deathly centered fighting style that would certainly mean his death do to the lethality of her moves itselfs on top of all her poison which could kill him with a graze.

Finally regarding his time stop, based in the simple fact that he don't seem to spam it in all the fights I saw (how useful that would be if used when Will was attacking him with his own chainsaw) or that he don't use it to definitely take down his enemies (he seem to at much do one attack), so I really doubt that it will be that useful against Yor, I also doubt that it could be used against projectiles throw by Yor.

Finally, this match is probably useless considering how Yor is getting upgraded to 9-A.

Don't know if there is something more I'm forgetting or what, but in principle that were the things that I wanted to say.
 
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