The Source downgrade

[Xearsay]

So the current basis for The Source being High 1-A is this.

“The Source resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, and those two characters are frequently identified as the same entity, both of which represent the featureless blank canvas used by the Writers to draw the comic story.”

I believe there are problems with this justification and to dissect what’s written I will break this up into two sections as each of these parts have their own unique issues.

1. First part, “The Source resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.”

This part only uses the Multiversity map as its justification. The problem lies in the fact that the Multiversity map doesn’t specify what level of existence the Overvoid or the Source are on. Instead it states that the Overvoid, the Source, and the unknowable, all lie beyond the Source Wall. Furthermore, we know this cannot be assumed to mean they’re on the same level of existence since Destiny also resides beyond the Source Wall and he’s not treated as being equal to them. Additionally, Maggedon, who was imprisoned on the outercurve of spacetime, (JLA #36) and who was said to be a “great dark voice on the edge of nothing,” (JLA #38) was explicitly stated to “come from beyond the Source.” (JLA #37) Meaning Maggedon came from beyond the Source but not the nothing/Overvoid.

1. The Second part, “...and those two characters are frequently identified as the same entity, both of which represent the featureless blank canvas used by the Writers to draw the comic story.”

The context of the first scan is that one of the Monitors is trying to get all the other Monitors to combine with one another so they can become a being known as the “Prime Monitor.” This justification seems to assume the title of “Prime Monitor” is referring to the Overvoid. However there are two problems with this assumption. First off, the Monitors merging with one another into one being would not create the Overvoid. As the Monitors are not the entire Overvoid broken into pieces but are actually creations that the Overvoid generated into existence. Second, further along in the scan one of the Monitors would state “The reasoning was sound, one Monitor for a unified reality… One Anti Monitor for chaos… The balance would be restored.” This primal Monitor who they equate with the Source that is opposite of Anti Monitor and meant to balance things with him, is an idea that goes back to Crisis on Infinite Earths where Mar Novu and the Anti Monitor were created as opposites of one another. (COIE #7) Making the Prime Monitor actually a reference to Mar Novu and not the Overvoid.

Moving along, this piece of the justification would further go on to claim that the Source and the Overvoid both represent the featureless blank canvas used by the Writer. And the evidence used would be an author statement that talks about how Morrison thought of the Overvoid as the page of the comic, and a WIP version of the Multiversity map which states “the Source is the white page.” The issue with this idea that the Source represents the blank canvas is that it’s not actually supported via any official material. And when we actually do look at the material we see instances like what I mentioned earlier involving Maggedon who comes from beyond the Source but is still contained within the Overvoid. Which is obviously impossible if they physically represent the same thing. We also have stuff like Death of the New Gods which was referenced in Final Crisis and depicts the Source as an entity that was trapped in the timestream after spiraling through reality due to being split in half by the power of the Old Gods. (DOTNG #5) Something that wouldn’t be possible if it was the grand canvas everything exists on like the Overvoid.

So this justification along with the Sources high 1-A rating definitely needs to go. Instead I propose a new rating and a new justification.

Tier: 1-A

Attack potency: Outerverse level (The Source exist beyond the 1-A Multiverse (Multiversity Map) with all of space and time being a fraction of its being. (JLA #15))

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[Sus]

Dc caps at low 1C

 

[Transcending]

I agree, this makes sense, additionally, for support-

This part only uses the Multiversity map as its justification. The problem lies in the fact that the Multiversity map doesn’t specify what level of existence the Overvoid or the Source are on. Instead it states that the Overvoid, the Source, and the unknowable, all lie beyond the Source Wall. Furthermore, we know this cannot be assumed to mean they’re on the same level of existence since Destiny also resides beyond the Source Wall and he’s not treated as being equal to them. Additionally, Maggedon, who was imprisoned on the outercurve of spacetime, (JLA #36) and who was said to be a “great dark voice on the edge of nothing,” (JLA #38) was explicitly stated to “come from beyond the Source.” (JLA #37) Meaning Maggedon came from beyond the Source but not the nothing/Overvoid.

The Source's level of existence was explicitly given- centre of the Omniverse. That's not even close to the Overvoid's level. The Overvoid encompasses the entire Omniverse and stretches beyond.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Xearsay]

Hmm

Soooooo… What do you think?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[Transcending]

Bump

 

[Vondoom]

The Source's level of existence was explicitly given- centre of the Omniverse. That's not even close to the Overvoid's level. The Overvoid encompasses the entire Omniverse and stretches beyond.

Can I see the source scan? I'm pretty sure the source and Overvoid are shown in the same point in the map just different positions.

@Deagonx @LuciferDC099

 

[Deagonx]

This part only uses the Multiversity map as its justification. The problem lies in the fact that the Multiversity map doesn’t specify what level of existence the Overvoid or the Source are on. Instead it states that the Overvoid, the Source, and the unknowable, all lie beyond the Source Wall.

Unless we are envisioning different levels of existence beyond the Source Wall, then this doesn't seem problematic at all.

Moving along, this piece of the justification would further go on to claim that the Source and the Overvoid both represent the featureless blank canvas used by the Writer. And the evidence used would be an author statement that talks about how Morrison thought of the Overvoid as the page of the comic, and a WIP version of the Multiversity map which states “the Source is the white page.” The issue with this idea that the Source represents the blank canvas is that it’s not actually supported via any official material.

Grant's author statements have been applied to cosmology justifications, and if the objection is whether or not author statements should be used at all, then this isn't really about The Source specifically and shouldn't be discussed primarily from that perspective.

There is official material that supports this, but it is somewhat subtle. the Map labels the white void beyond the Source Wall as "Overvoid" and "The Source" at opposite ends of the map. It seems counter-intuitive to think that the white void has two titles written on it, one of which we know definitively is it's name "the Overvoid" and the other is just kinda... there? When they're written in the same manner, at exact opposite ends of the map. It's certainly not a far-fetched interpretation to say the map identifies the white space as both "Overvoid" and "The Source." Adddtionally, we know that Grant's intention with this was that the Overvoid and the Source are the same thing, he said that abundantly and it's very overt in the rough draft of the map.

Spoiler: Morrison's Statements

The issue with this idea that the Source represents the blank canvas is that it’s not actually supported via any official material. And when we actually do look at the material we see instances like what I mentioned earlier involving Maggedon who comes from beyond the Source but is still contained within the Overvoid. Which is obviously impossible if they physically represent the same thing. We also have stuff like Death of the New Gods which was referenced in Final Crisis and depicts the Source as an entity that was trapped in the timestream after spiraling through reality due to being split in half by the power of the Old Gods. (DOTNG #5) Something that wouldn’t be possible if it was the grand canvas everything exists on like the Overvoid.

There is no doubt that the Source has had contradictory iterations throughout it's long history, which is one of the reasons the cosmology split is being worked on.

However, I don't even believe the examples you've given of contradictions are terribly compelling. The statement about Mageddon predates the Overvoid's existence by a decade, so conceptualizing it as "contained within the Overvoid" is anachronistic and doesn't make the Map nor Grant's statements contradictory. Likewise, DotNG is only partially canon to Final Crisis. Certain elements were adopted into the story but others were directly called apocryphal by Grant.

 

[Xearsay]

Unless we are envisioning different levels of existence beyond the Source Wall, then this doesn't seem problematic at all.

This isn’t really a counter argument. The justification used doesn’t state they’re on the same level. It just says that they’re both outside the Source Wall. And my examples involving Destiny, Mar Novu, the Old Gods, and Maggedon all highlight exactly why this assumption is problematic.

Grant's author statements have been applied to cosmology justifications, and if the objection is whether or not author statements should be used at all, then this isn't really about The Source specifically and shouldn't be discussed primarily from that perspective.

There is official material that supports this, but it is somewhat subtle. the Map labels the white void beyond the Source Wall as "Overvoid" and "The Source" at opposite ends of the map. It seems counter-intuitive to think that the white void has two titles written on it, one of which we know definitively is it's name "the Overvoid" and the other is just kinda... there? When they're written in the same manner, at exact opposite ends of the map. It's certainly not a far-fetched interpretation to say the map identifies the white space as both "Overvoid" and "The Source." Adddtionally, we know that Grant's intention with this was that the Overvoid and the Source are the same thing, he said that abundantly and it's very overt in the rough draft of the map.

I’m not trying to argue about whether author statements should be used universally or not. I’m arguing that this specific author statement has no material basis and runs contradictory to the comics.

The problem with interpreting the map this way is that’s it’s not consistent, and wouldn’t even make sense with what the map itself says. The map list the Source and the Overvoid as separate things beyond the Source Wall. Mar Novu was equated with the Source in Countdown. Maggedon was said to come from beyond the Source but not the Void/Nothing. And the Old Gods split the Source and sent it spiraling through time. If the Source was the blank canvas everything exist on, all of these things wouldn’t be possible.

There is no doubt that the Source has had contradictory iterations throughout it's long history, which is one of the reasons the cosmology will be split in the future.

However, I don't even believe the examples you've given of contradictions are terribly compelling. The statement about Mageddon predates the Overvoid's existence by a decade, so conceptualizing it as "contained within the Overvoid" is anachronistic and doesn't make the Map nor Grant's statements contradictory. Likewise, DotNG is only partially canon to Final Crisis. Certain elements were adopted into the story but others were directly called apocryphal by Grant.

This isn’t true. There was always a thing of nothingness outside of the Multiverse. It just wasn’t given an official name until Final Crisis.
And sure Grant considered Orion and Darkseids final fight apocryphal to Final Crisis. I don’t know what that has to do with my example involving the Old Gods.

 

[Deagonx]

This isn’t really a counter argument. The justification used doesn’t state they’re on the same level

Them being on the same level is a pretty reasonable thing if we don't have a reason to believe there's different levels of existence in the void.

I’m arguing that this specific author statement has no material basis and runs contradictory to the comics

The map makes a clear case otherwise.

The problem with interpreting the map this way is that’s it’s not consistent, and wouldn’t even make sense with what the map itself says. The map list the Source and the Overvoid as separate things beyond the Source Wall.

The map does not list them separately. It uses both names, certainly, but so does Grant. Interpreting the wording as a separation, and using that Interpretation to claim Grant contradicted the comics, is begging the question. Its only contradictory if your theory of the meaning is presupposed, which as compelling a reason as any to conclude that your theory is incorrect, which means we can find a better theory, like "the wording on the map is indicative of their shared identity." The map labels the void with both names, Grant endorsed this repeatedly. It's aligned with how the map is labeled. You're manufacturing a contradiction where one isn't necessary.

Mar Novu was equated with the Source in Countdown. Maggedon was said to come from beyond the Source but not the Void/Nothing. And the Old Gods split the Source and sent it spiraling through time. If the Source was the blank canvas everything exist on, all of these things wouldn’t be possible.

Countdown, is also considered apocryphal by Grant. Countdown also states that the Monitors were born out of a seed programming that activated when Alex Luthor messed with Anti-Monitors dead body. So even if Countdown really did claim this (it didn't), the fact that Final Crisis and Multiversity contradict Countdown is a given either way.

It's also not possible that Prime Monitor meant the original COIE Monitor, because they said the Prime Monitor was a myth, but the monitors were fully aware of the existence of the original Mar Novu.

The fact that it also contradicts a somewhat far-fetched reading of a JLA comic from the 90s is similarly not terribly compelling. The void is never mentioned, and the Overvoid didn't exist.

There was always a thing of nothingness outside of the Multiverse. It just wasn’t given an official name until Final Crisis.

Assuming that all of the voids in DC are the Overvoid, and interpreting the word "nothing" from a 90s comic as being the primary basis for how we interpret Multiversity is similarly far-fetched.

The map strongly implies that the Source is the white void. Grant confirmed this repeatedly, and this topic was already argued extensively in another thread that was rejected.

 

[Deagonx]

I'll respond to the main points of contention more thoroughly, and call it a day because this topic was already debunked in the other thread.

Claim 1: Source=Overvoid is contradicted by the Source Wall's description on the Multiversity Map.

This was one of the bigger ones from the last thread you brought this up in, but it really just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. This is the description being referred to:

You claimed that this sentence is proof that the Map considers them separate beings. However, this can be easily proven wrong. It is very common in Grant's writing style to give different names for things in this exact fashion. Here are some examples.

"Anti-Monitor, which is the Opposite, the Conflict Generator, the Story Machine."
"Overvoid, the Mind of Monitor"
"The Blank. The Nil. The Gone."

It is not at all uncommon nor contradictory for commas or even periods to separate terms that refer to the same being, and Grant does it all the time, so claiming that this phrase contradicts Grant's statements is a bad theory.

The Overvoid has even been directly described as "Unknowable."

Conclusion: There is absolutely nothing about the wording in the sidebar on the Map which insists upon separation, there are numerous counterexamples, and evidence from the text to suggest that it's all a description of the void. This is further emphasized by the fact that the void has two names on the map. "Overvoid" and "The Source."

Claim 1: Mar Novu was called "The Source" in Countdown.

As I explained my last post, Countdown is already considered apocryphal by Grant and has information that directly contradicts Final Crisis regardless, such as the origin of the Monitors and the identity of Nix Uotan.

So pointing out that something contradicts Countdown isn't really problematic. However, I don't think the provided reasoning is even particularly compelling.

This justification seems to assume the title of “Prime Monitor” is referring to the Overvoid. However there are two problems with this assumption. First off, the Monitors merging with one another into one being would not create the Overvoid. As the Monitors are not the entire Overvoid broken into pieces but are actually creations that the Overvoid generated into existence. Second, further along in the scan one of the Monitors would state “The reasoning was sound, one Monitor for a unified reality… One Anti Monitor for chaos… The balance would be restored.” This primal Monitor who they equate with the Source that is opposite of Anti Monitor and meant to balance things with him, is an idea that goes back to Crisis on Infinite Earths where Mar Novu and the Anti Monitor were created as opposites of one another. (COIE #7) Making the Prime Monitor actually a reference to Mar Novu and not the Overvoid.

They refer to the Prime Monitor as a "myth" and "legend." There is absolutely no way that is the original Monitor, because they are fully aware that he existed.

Claim 3: Mageddon from JLA (1997) was beyond the Source, but was on the "edge of nothing" therefore within the Overvoid.

I won't spend too much time on this one. It's frankly just not that good of an argument to say "the edge of nothing" in a comic from the 90s definitely refers to the Overvoid. Even if this interpretation was ideal, it's not that crazy for Grant to have changed something about his work in 10-15 years of time. But more problematically, there simply wasn't an Overvoid back then and we have no way of knowing if this "nothing" is the Overvoid.

 

[Xearsay]

"Anti-Monitor, which is the Opposite, the Conflict Generator, the Story Machine."
"Overvoid, the Mind of Monitor"
"The Blank. The Nil. The Gone."

It is not at all uncommon nor contradictory for commas or even periods to separate terms that refer to the same being, and Grant does it all the time, so claiming that this phrase contradicts Grant's statements is a bad theory.

Sure a sentence can use commas or even periods to separate different terms that are being equated with one another. I never argued against this. However the reason we know “Beyond lies, Monitor-Mind, the Source, and the Unknowable” is listing separate things because within the list it states, “beyond lies… and the unknowable” which is referring to things that we are not aware of that also exist beyond the Source Wall. And the reason this cannot also be the Overvoid is because the Overvoid is something we are made aware of. Meaning the objects in the list are not the same as one another.

The Overvoid has even been directly described as "Unknowable."

Conclusion: There is absolutely nothing about the wording in the sidebar on the Map which insists upon separation, there are numerous counterexamples, and evidence from the text to suggest that it's all a description of the void. This is further emphasized by the fact that the void has two names on the map. "Overvoid" and "The Source."

What you’re suggesting here doesn’t make any sense. The Overvoid being described as this “immense and unknowable” entity is just referring to how it’s beyond what we can truly understand and experience. If the statement was referring to idea that the Overvoid was something truly unknowable that exist beyond the source wall then nobody would know about it. Which cannot be the case since the Monitors, multiple Supermans, Kamandi, a alternate earth Dr Fate, and many others are aware of the Overvoid.

As I explained my last post, Countdown is already considered apocryphal by Grant and has information that directly contradicts Final Crisis regardless, such as the origin of the Monitors and the identity of Nix Uotan.

Grant considered DOTNG apocryphal, I don’t recall him considering Countdown the same way. And even if he did, it wouldn’t matter because he literally references events that happened in countdown during Final Crisis. And sure the origin of the Monitor race is different, however that doesn’t contradict my argument being that the Source was equated with the Monitors combining into one being that balances reality with the Anti Monitor. Making it not equal to the Overvoid.

Frankly it just makes more sense for Prime Monitor to refer to the Overvoid, given that "prime" means "first" and Overvoid is often called the "First Monitor" as seen in the earlier scan:

You’re ignoring the argument. I’m saying that interpretation is not possible because of the additional context that specifies this “prime Monitor” as the combination of all 52 Monitors into one being and the opposite of the Anti Monitor. Which are two things the Overvoid cannot be for the reason I listed in the main post.

I won't spend too much time on this one. It's frankly just not that good of an argument to say "the edge of nothing" in a comic from the 90s definitely refers to the Overvoid. Even if this interpretation was ideal, it's not that crazy for Grant to have changed something about his work in 10-15 years of time. But more problematically, there simply wasn't an Overvoid back then and we have no way of knowing if this "nothing" is the Overvoid.

You just ignored what I said. The concept of the nothing of DC’s cosmology existed far before Final Crisis and goes back even to Animal Man and Doom patrol. As there’s references to how creation existed in perfect nothingness. So it not having an official name doesn’t mean it never existed. Also we know nothing is referring to the Void because in Final Crisis the Void is literally equated with “the zilch” which is another word for “nothing.”

 

[Veronica]

DC will be downgraded to Low 1-C anyway. No need to debate actually

 

[Transcending]

Can I see the source scan? I'm pretty sure the source and Overvoid are shown in the same point in the map just different positions.

@Deagonx @LuciferDC099

Here- https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-hm23Yd6HXq1OAJV-V1nctFXBEaOo0bx6Rw&usqp=CAU

The Overvoid however, encompasses the entire Omniverse, so they cannot be the same.

 

[Firestorm808]

I would hold off on any cosmology revisions for the time being. We are nearing the release of the mass DC cosmology revisions and evaluation standards moving forward.

 

[Bobsican]

Shouldn't this thread be closed then?

 

[Transcending]

I would hold off on any cosmology revisions for the time being. We are nearing the release of the mass DC cosmology revisions and evaluation standards moving forward.

Can you give an approximate date?

 

[Elizio33]

The Source and Monitor-Mind The Overvoid were said by Grant Morrison himself to be the same thing as he calls the white comics page "Kirby's Source, God, Monitor-Mind". Not to mention that a sketch of the Multiverse Map depicts The Source as the blank page, much like Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

 

[Transcending]

The Source and Monitor-Mind The Overvoid were said by Grant Morrison himself to be the same thing as he calls the white comics page "Kirby's Source, God, Monitor-Mind".

That's WOG which contradicts the source(haha) material.

Not to mention that a sketch of the Multiverse Map depicts The Source as the blank page, much like Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

A sketch isn't the final product, and the final map contradicts this notion, but even if it hadn't, Scott Snyder has clearly retconned this.

 

[Deagonx]

That's WOG which contradicts the source(haha) material.

It doesn't contradict the Source material. The map labels the void as The Source as well as Overvoid.

and the final map contradicts this notion

It does not. All the terms in the side bar are describing the void. Monitor-mind, the Source, and the Unknowable. The comic directly calls it all of these things.

Scott Snyder has clearly retconned this.

That's why we're splitting the cosmologies.

 

[Transcending]

It doesn't contradict the Source material. The map labels the void as The Source as well as Overvoid.

It does not. All the terms in the side bar are describing the void. Monitor-mind, the Source, and the Unknowable. The comic directly calls it all of these things.

Xearsay addressed this

That's why we're splitting the cosmologies.

We shouldn't "split" the Cosmology due to this. We should just consider it a simple retcon.

 

[Elizio33]

That's WOG which contradicts the source(haha) material.

A sketch isn't the final product, and the final map contradicts this notion, but even if it hadn't, Scott Snyder has clearly retconned this.

Grant Morrison contradict nothing, there's a reason The Source is labeled on the same level as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid on the Multiverse Map and on the Multiverse Map sketch as well. I see no contradiction.

 

[Transcending]

Grant Morrison contradict nothing, there's a reason The Source is labeled on the same level as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid on the Multiverse Map and on the Multiverse Map sketch as well. I see no contradiction.

In the Source Wall section, this is stated-

Beyond lies only Monitor-Mind, The Source, and The Unknowable

The use of "and" here clearly distincts the Overvoid and the Source. If they were the same, the map would have said this-

Beyond lies only Monitor-Mind, The Source, The Unknowable

 

[Deagonx]

Xearsay addressed this

He certainly quoted it and typed words below. I'll give you that.

The use of "and" here clearly distincts the Overvoid and the Source. If they were the same, the map would have said this-

The word "and" is appropriate to use for listing multiple names or adjectives.

There's no reason for confusion. As Elizio pointed out, the interpretation being discussed is directly and overtly stated by the author.

 

[Transcending]

The word "and" is appropriate to using for listing multiple names or adjectives.

If someone says "I have apples and oranges", that doesn't mean apples=oranges. Similarly, if someone says "I have visited universes and dimensions", that doesn't mean universes=dimensions.

 

[Transcending]

There's no reason for confusion. As Elizio pointed out, the interpretation being discussed is directly and overtly stated by the author.

Even then, that interpretation is disagreed on by Scott Snyder. So still doesn't count

 

[Elizio33]

Even then, that interpretation is disagreed on by Scott Snyder. So still doesn't count

Not the same cosmology.

 

[Xearsay]

The Source and Monitor-Mind The Overvoid were said by Grant Morrison himself to be the same thing as he calls the white comics page "Kirby's Source, God, Monitor-Mind". Not to mention that a sketch of the Multiverse Map depicts The Source as the blank page, much like Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

And some writer working at Marvel said Sentry could beat the Beyonder. Guess that means we gotta upgrade Sentry to tier 1 now despite it having no material basis and being wildly incompatible.

 

[Transcending]

Not the same cosmology.

It is the same Cosmology, just that parts of it were retconned.

 

[Deagonx]

If someone says "I have apples and oranges", that doesn't mean apples=oranges. Similarly, if someone says "I have visited universes and dimensions", that doesn't mean universes=dimensions.

Sure, but if someone says "This is Morpheus, the Sandman, and the King of Dreams" all of that is still one being.

The way Grant wrote and intended it is perfectly valid English.

And some writer working at Marvel said Sentry could beat the Beyonder. Guess that means we gotta upgrade to Sentry to tier 1 now despite it having no material basis and being wildly incompatible.

The map says the void is the Source and the Overvoid, and the map says that what's beyond the wall is just the Monitor-Mind/Source/Unknowable. Grant merely confirmed what the map already stated.

It is the same Cosmology, just that parts of it were retconned.

Scott believes all three of the top beings are co-equal so this is pretty much meaningless.

 

[Xearsay]

Not the same cosmology.

You say it’s “not the same cosmology,” but when we look at your DC cosmology revision sandbox, it literally mixes Morrison’s cosmology with Snyder’s.

 

[Deagonx]

You say it’s “not the same cosmology,” but when we look at your DC cosmology revision sandbox, it literally mixes Morrison’s cosmology with Snyder’s.

There is a separate Morrison cosmology and a Snyder cosmology in the Sandbox. Situations like this are precisely the reason why.

 

[Elizio33]

You say it’s “not the same cosmology,” when your DC cosmology revision sandbox literally uses Morrison’s cosmology to scale Snyder’s.

Snyder's cosmology is mostly based on Morrison's. The big differences between them are in the dimensions, like the Fifth Dimension, which are not the same, and there is also the origin of the Monitors which is different. The rest stays mostly the same with some extra stuff but remains its own thing based on old work by other authors. That's why we are separating this cosmology and the Morrison's cosmology.

 

[Transcending]

Scott believes all three of the top beings are co-equal so this is pretty much meaningless.

Why would he? His comics confirmed the Source and the Overvoid are different beings, and going by his WoG the Overvoid is less manifest. He didn't say anything on the Source scaling to the Overvoid power-wise

 

[Deagonx]

Why would he?

Beats me, but he does.

He didn't say anything on the Source scaling to the Overvoid power-wise

In his comics the Overvoid shows no indication of being sentient or having any power at all. The Presence/Source is the Supreme being above the infinite omniverse.

 

[Xearsay]

Yes, because Snyder's cosmology is mostly based on Morrison's. The big differences between them are in the dimensions, like the Fifth Dimension, which are not the same, and there is also the origin of the Monitors which is different. The rest stays mostly the same with some extra stuff but remains its own thing based on old work by other authors.

The Monitors origin story change was a very minor retcon. And what I mean by minor is that it didn’t change the structure of the cosmology. Making it irrelevant.

So essentially, you listed Snyder’s work as a whole new cosmology because a single dimension was being seen and treated differently.

 

[Transcending]

Beats me, but he does.

I admit I could have worded it better but I was asking where he said he believed that.

In his comics the Overvoid shows no indication of being sentient or having any power at all.

It didn't show any power but it did show sentience. It however, showed power in Infinite Frontier. Additionally, it showed transcendence.

The Presence/Source is the Supreme being above the infinite omniverse.

This is irrelevant to my argument and in no way scales the Source/Presence to the Overvoid's tier.

 

[Elizio33]

The Monitors origin story change was a very minor retcon. And what I mean by minor is that it didn’t change the structure of the cosmology. Making it irrelevant.

So essentially, you listed Snyder’s work as a whole new cosmology because a single dimension was being seen and treated differently.

Not just because of that. Morrison treats dimensions as mathematical dimensions related to physics while Snyder treats them as layers of existence and aren't physics-based dimensions.