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The Sin of Greed vs the Immortal Visionary
- Thread starter Arkenis
- Start date
speedster352
He/Him- 17,581
- 1,793
Ban should be able to heavily out range and win that way.
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What is Snatch exactly?
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Basically Ban has the power to just steal things, including enemy power and speed, without the need to actually touch them.
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How much can he steal exactly? Does he have a limit on this?
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Half of Galland's power which amounts to about 145 Petatons...... which is double the amount Renatus has with his summons.
Would like to point out though that Renatus actually has more in his toolkit than what his profile implies, due to the magic system of Mashle having it's own page.
Some things he has which help turn the tides to his favor are teleportation, illusion creation and aura concealment (which he just has on his own profile due to being a standard tactic), his own magic absorption which would help counter Ban's Snatch, and Fear Manip
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Just realized, Renatus also just dominates in the LS category meaning his Telekinesis is going to be extremely useful if he plays his cards right
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I see, that's a problem in and of itself
Yeah, perhaps Renatus could restore the magic that was taken away from him by waiting it out, perhaps that's a viable tactic. Especially with the mentioned illusion magic to hide his real body.
There's also this as well, though Wizards don't tend to use telekinesis all too often, only really using it to obliterate and cut apart fodder compared to themselves.
However, he does have his Undeath hands, which could grab Ban and hold him in place, though those stem from his magic.
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True, true, and those are options. But as a Divine Visionary capable of assessing threats and knowing what his conditions to winning are, the moment he finds out Ban can regenerate like he does is probably going to result into a restraint victory.
As for the energy usage, inferior characters can use telekinesis for several days straight with no sleep or food. Even taking into account the fact that the hands would cost more magic than his Telekinesis he should have more than enough to last the full 24 hours. (And if he doesn't he could just siphon some more off Ban)
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sba assumes the distance is 4km right
so ban snatches from that distance
so ban snatches from that distance
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Yeah, there's the topic on the distance. Though, with his aura concealment and illusory magic, couldn't Renatus run up on Ban without them knowing a thing? If that doesn't work, Rentus can just bum rush and regenerate any limb that gets torn off, idk.
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wouldn't ban just snatch the magic
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It's illusion magic, so there's no real strength or speed to stealwouldn't ban just snatch the magic
Something that should also be pointed out that the weakness of Renatus having a limit on his healing factor might not even be that notable for the fight. The sheer gap between him and Doom is a guy who can keep up against characters less than mach 1 to someone who casually reaches 6,000x FTL at his weakest form.
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but it doesn't have to be just strength or speed
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It doesn't have to, but it does need to be a physical trait which illusions lack. Even assuming that he can just steal the actual magic being used to create each individual one it wouldn't be that significant compared to the real deal.
Also, again these guys can also teleport which makes hitting them with Snatch much harder to do
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Oh right wizards can teleport, it could probably be done to close the distance huh. Though it would probably only be done to do that, we havent seen a wizard use teleportation when actually fighting.
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Iirc Mashle characters can’t use spells without their wands ?
If not Ban can just snatch it
Ban outranges him bad can also take his own speed and overwhelm his regen
I don’t think Renatus can really win this
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Ban can do this as well with his zero sign technique.
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The wands in Mashle are sentient, they can heed what the user needs in times of peril and can restore themselves even when broken. Plus, Renatus is a nut job that keeps his wand inside his body and doesn't use it unless it's for his Summons. Which, does he start out with here?
So it's just a game of cat and mouse huh. But would Ban actually resort to this right away? Because for Renatus, as shown against Domina, he was quick to use his illusions and supression to trick the fellow.
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I'd give the cat and mouse game advantage to Renatus due to it being a more common trick in the wizard world and has experience dealing with such tricks, whereas Ban is like the only person to do these things + Mages are capable of breaking inferior spells, so as long as Ban doesn't gain the AP advantage or loses it at any point Renatus could always just neg the concealment (I do wonder if that ability would also work on snatch itself)
Teleportation can mitigate the distance, he needs to actually hit the real Renatus in order to steal the speed, and as I said earlier the 'overwhelming regeneration with speed' win-con is a pretty unlikely one since the only character shown to do it is literally billions of times faster than Renatus on lowball estimates
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Snatch can be used as an aoe (hunters fest) so the illusions will be no protection. Overwhelming renatus's regen with speed would work because renatus's stats aren't high enough to overload ban's capacity meaning if snatch connects renatus will be weaker than an ordinary human.
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Hunter's fest is only 30 meters, which would Renatus can attack outside of the range of. The illusions main goal is just to ensure he can actually close the distance since Renatus actively starts winning in close range encounters due to his hands and telekenisis
That would require Snatch to connect (which would be difficult considering Ban can't find the real Renatus) and the speed gap between below human and massively hypersonic+ is still MASSIVLY SMALLER than the gap between what is at most Mach 0.9 and at minimum 6,000x the speed of light. The fact Renatus could still somewhat regenerate and survive that is a feat itself.
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Also gonna address the possibility of Ban stealing Renatus's lifting strength and overpowering him through it. That's not gonna work since Renatus is basically a god tier for 7DS in that category and Ban wouldn't be able to steal enough of it in order to actually make a dent to that specific stat.
Edit: Actually, Renatus is just outright beyond everything in 7DS for LS lol. I thought that maybe someone scaled to Behemoth's weight calc but only the Behemoth itself has it and Renatus is above it standing at 1.0063129e+22 Kg, MUCH higher with his summons out (10x multiplier), against Behemoth's 1.00201094827E+21kg weight
Edit: Actually, Renatus is just outright beyond everything in 7DS for LS lol. I thought that maybe someone scaled to Behemoth's weight calc but only the Behemoth itself has it and Renatus is above it standing at 1.0063129e+22 Kg, MUCH higher with his summons out (10x multiplier), against Behemoth's 1.00201094827E+21kg weight
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Not to power himself, magic power is something naturally generated in the body with mages pouring their magic into their wands (which does mean if Ban steals his power Renatus would still be capable of fighting to a degree). It also would again need him to actively hit the correct one since it's something that the illusions wouldn't physically have. Plus Mages can just resummon em.
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Like I said, they don't. The only amount of power he'd gain is however much Renatus is actively pouring into it at the moment of casting which would naturally be inferior to his own level unless he pours everything he has into one attack which is unlikely, though it does help close the gap.
That's because it is vague for how long lol, all we know is that the characters are capable of passively restoring their power even if they completely lose it all at once.
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Renatus having Info Analysis and in general being quick to pick up on those things + the fact Ban can't steal enough LS away to escape from a grab win
Hunter Fest is a 100 foot radius, that's a 30 meter AOE.
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He's going to know how Ban's ability works and recognize focus a lot more on closing the gap then before, which mind you it's in-character for him to start the fight setting up illusions and teleporting closer to Ban. Snatch isn't a instant-hit move.
Link just doesn't work and his own profile says 'a hundred foot radius'.
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Yes, but if he closes the gap then he summons a hand or telekinesis and makes it so Ban stealing his power is worthless due to going over his maximum amount.
It's seemingly a dead link for me at least, (maybe google is just dying on me) and directly contradicts the actual ability section for it that says
"Hunter Fest: Ban temporarily steals the physical strength of every living creature within a hundred foot radius of himself."
But even if I assume it's closer to a hundred meters, many Mashle spells can travel at farther distances with Renatus only being stated as tens of meters due to a lack of showings rather than him being incapable of clearing such a distance, hence the higher rating.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,581
- 1,793
Also Ban has busted regeneration how will renatus be able to put him down?
Also Ban stealing his speed and stamina will be extremely detrimental he wouldn’t need to steal just his ap. Taking away his other stats would help greatly. Wouldn’t removing his want temporarily stop his magic tricks?
speedster352
He/Him- 17,581
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By the way ban used snatch hundreds of meters away when he was younger and with all the years of training it should be like 500 meters at least. Cause hunterfest is said to be several hundred foot radius. Wouldn’t ban senses help with illusions?
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His lifting strength is absurdly beyond everything in 7DS, a single grab from one of his hands or using telekinesis can keep Ban down for the 24 hours.
Speed wouldn't matter since once they get into range it's going to be a LS contest and Renatus has literal days worth of combat stamina to use. That ontop of his natural restoration is going to keep his stamina going in the fight.
Plus there's the entire fact that Ban has a time limit of Snatch, if Renatus is able to stall it out then Ban just gets decimated
Funny enough, no. Mashle wands are abstract and capable of continously casting spells if the user is willing it (only works on continuous, timed, or charged spells IIIRC, which the hands or telekinesis would qualify as). Wahlberg was able to use a self-destruction spell that wouldn't even stop if he died.
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I don't think that's how Snatch works and there should probably be some evidence to support it reaching such ranges. The regular version definitely can reach hundreds of meters but 500 specifically seems iffy
Several hundred would result in a 3 hundred usage, which would be 90 meters not 500
No, Mages have enhanced and extrasensory senses but the illusions are capable of fooling them still.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,338
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Renatus uses Illusion in character. So I can pretty much see Ban getting tricked but can Renatus knock him out? Renatus can't kill Ban just like Ban can't kill Renatus because of both lacking any Regeneration negation stuff.
It would come down to who has better stamina I guess.
It would come down to who has better stamina I guess.
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