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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

I just read the latest issue of the Ultimates, and I have to say that Jonathan Hickman has successfully illustrated how morally disgusting the Hulk truly is when the concept is analysed from more than a casual glance, just as he did with the X-Men previously, and that he has also successfully accurately pinpointed several of the geopolitical problems of our real world, and he also fit in some critical subtexts about powerscaling, and possibly the amoral power obsession in quite a lot of stories originating in Asia, but I may be reading too much into it in the last regard.

However, the problem is that Hickman is also so negative, depressing, and creatively morbid, dark, and destructive in his storytelling, so it is still not anything that I find enjoyable. 🙏
 
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Antvasima said:
I just read the latest issue of the Ultimates, and I have to say that Jonathan Hickman has successfully illustrated how morally disgusting the Hulk truly is when the concept is analysed from more than a casual glance, just as he did with the X-Men previously, and that he has also successfully accurately pinpointed several of the geopolitical problems of our real world, and he also fit in some critical subtexts about powerscaling, and possibly the amoral power obsession in quite a lot of stories originating in Asia, but I may be reading too much into it in the last regard.

However, the problem is that Hickman is also so negative, depressing, and creatively morbid, dark, and destructive in his storytelling, so it is still not anything that I find enjoyable. 🙏
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Nah, I truly hate both Ultimate counterparts of Hulk.
 
Yes, agreed, but the core concept of the Hulk is somebody who creates weapons of genocide for a living and unleashes his inner monstrous ugliness as a result. It is rather absurd and morbid to attempt to narratively play that as something heroic.
 
Antvasima said:
Yes, agreed, but the core concept of the Hulk is somebody who creates weapons of genocide for a living and unleashes his inner monstrous ugliness as a result. It is rather absurd and morbid to attempt to narratively play that as something heroic.
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Ant...

Banner did not create weapons of genocide for a living. That sentence is wildly incorrect.

Banner worked with radiation in a laboratory sense, usually for medical research. He did not, in fact, make a living off of weapons of any kind, nor did he want to.

The entire purpose of the project that made the gamma bomb was to create a nonlethal alternative weapon (until Ross interfered with that part of the project).

Also, "inner monstrous ugliness"? The Hulk is a manifestation of trauma. The desire to be left alone and unharmed. I don't think monstrously ugly is how you'd describe a person's traumatized inner child. You talk like Banner is inherently violent and wants to be a big green monster, rather than it being a dreadful reality that was forced upon him by the immorality of others, and which he desperately tries to channel positively.

What's absurd and morbid is the idea of gatekeeping narratives of heroism and helpfulness away from character backgrounds that are too upsetting. Despite that usually being the most inspiring thing about said heroism; the will and moral fortitude to become a hero despite being a monster, and perhaps even once being morally wrong.
 
I think Ant's referring specifically to the 1610 Hulk, who was a weapons researcher (though more on the side of biological deterrence, from what I remember) and is a murderous, vulgar, thirsty mf in Hulk form.
 
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Ok this is going to be a big ask. So currently I'm going around the site asking for opinions on Death Battle. In particular I'm asking if you think x franchise is well represented in the show. In this case from the perspective of both research and character portrayal how do you feel about Marvel on Death Battle?
 
Well, originally, universe 616 Robert Bruce Banner developed extra deadly nuclear weapons, and was seemingly a blatant allegory for J. Robert Oppenheimer (they even share the name Robert), but maybe that part of his origin has been retconned due to being too controversial.

Regardless, I also still maintain that when the X-Men recruiting a supremacist far right serial-rapist and serial-torturer such as the White Queen Emma Frost into their ranks is one of their less controversial choices for membership, as they routinely accept satanically evil genocidally bigoted supremacist psychopaths who are morally comparable to or possibly even worse than Adolf Hitler, such as Mystique, Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, and Selene, and they have bloodsports to the death for entertainment, and declare themselves as the new gods and superior replacement for humanity, all while complaining about how persecuted they are for being "superior" to everybody else, the entire narrative concept has lost all of its moral right to exist anymore.

Also, the most inspiring heroes are the ones who are not virtually amoral, and who don't have a history of unspeakable atrocities or who even continue to engage in them. I would rather not have rapists, torturers, supremacists, serial-killers, sadistic manipulative psychopaths, jingoistic tribalist warmongers, genocidal bigots, and absolutely greedy and destructive corporate exploiters, marketed as something laudable to strive towards.

The most disturbing ongoing core message of Marvel Comics storytelling unfortunately ends up as being that satanically evil completely conscience- and empathy-deprived villains with kill counts in the billions and above will never ever suffer anything remotely approaching punishments proportionate to their crimes, just get a slap on their wrists and be free to slaughter and enslave billions more innocent victims over and over again, whereas an easy road to hell for completely disproportionate retribution of absolutely sadistic torture, violation, and degradation awaits almost all of the regular powerless citizens who might have walked against a green traffic light some time.
 
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Anyway, given that there were concerns here earlier about Imgur deleting images, I created a discussion thread with some instructions for how to avoid that earlier. 🙏

vsbattles.com

Extremely important announcements for our community

An announcement about Imgur: Given our recent problems with Imgur-hosted comicbook scans disappearing, here is the advice that I have received regarding how to minimise these risks, but I do not know for certain if it is accurate: 1) Being logged in with a, preferably anonymous, account to...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
MrKerf said:
Yeah, I started reading Krakoa era from start to finish recently and the whole thing has a number of amoral and questionable decisions. A baffling amount.
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Yes, strongly agreed, and now Marvel Comics is officially attempting to sell us that "Krakoa was about love"... right...
 
DivineCreator389 said:
Should The-Powers-That-Be and The-Natural-Order-Of-All-Things have profiles? And should they scale to H1-A, as they are stated to be ' two of forces that shape all existence ' (?)
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I do not think that they have appeared in a sufficient number of stories for that yet, so it may be best to wait and see if "G.O.D.S." is (hopefully) retconned or not.

Also, as much as Hickman's analysis of how this world largely works on a political level has seemed quite accurate lately (he started out his old Fantastic Four run by attacking Mark Millar for not being sufficiently pro-oligarchy and social Darwinism, so his Ultimates work legitimately does seem to display considerable emotional and mental maturity growth on his part), he also severely messed up all of the massive progress in the structure of the Marvel Comics cosmology and continuity that Al Ewing had achieved through several years of hard work, through his unpopular, boring, and quickly cancelled "G.O.D.S." series.
 
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Antvasima said:
I do not think that they have appeared in a sufficient number of stories for that yet, so it may be best to wait and see if "G.O.D.S." is (hopefully) retconned or not.

Also, as much as Hickman's analysis of how this world largely works on a political level has seemed quite accurate lately (he started out his old Fantastic Four run by attacking Mark Millar for not being sufficiently pro-oligarchy and social Darwinism, so his Ultimates work legitimately does seem to display considerable emotional and mental maturity growth on his part), he also severely messed up all of the massive progress in the structure of the Marvel Comics cosmology and continuity that Al Ewing had achieved through several years of hard work, through his unpopular, boring, and quickly cancelled "G.O.D.S." series.
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What did it mess up about the cosmology? I didn't read it.
 
Well, it changed the nature of the cosmic beings. Infinity is suddenly back without an explanation, and instead of being the sister-self of Eternity, the two are separate and constantly fighting each other. Chaos and Order are also fighting against each other instead of collaborating, and are no longer the sources of magic. Oblivion is no longer either presented as a separate entity outside of the multiverse or a brother-self of Death, and is the opposite of the Living Tribunal. All of the cosmic entities now have much worse and extremely different designs, personalities, and behaviours, and so onwards. And all of it was just hastily thrown against the wall in a very unfinished story, and now we are apparently stuck with it, and Al Ewing is likely unable to finish his unmatched amazing layout work for the entire cosmology because of it.
 
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Antvasima said:
Well, it changed the nature of the cosmic beings. Infinity is suddenly back without an explanation, and instead of being the sister-self of Eternity, the two are separate and constantly fighting each other. Chaos and Order are also fighting against each other instead of collaborating, and are no longer the sources of magic. Oblivion is no longer either presented as a separate entity outside of the multiverse or a brother-self of Death, and is the opposite of the Living Tribunal. All of the cosmic entities now have much worse and extremely different designs and behaviours, and so onwards. And all of it was just hastily thrown against the wall in a very unfinished story, and now we are apparently stuck with it, and Al Ewing is likely unable to finish his unmatched amazing layout work for the entire cosmology because of it.
Click to expand...
Tbh, I think all of those changes would be much better if this had come out immediately following Secret Wars. The changes would make a lot more sense, and the story would be more interesting, as it would be more about exploring new changes to the verse rather than implementing retcons.
 
Hi

I wonder if anyone knowledgeable of Marvel Comics could answer me some questions about Gwenpool:

  1. Her range with Gutterspace: Gutterspace is described as a place outside space and time, an "extra-multiversal place", and with it Gwenpool has shown to access other times and other universes, I think. Shouldn't this warrant a range greater than what is listed right now (i.e., Universal)?
  2. Optional Items: Again related to Gutterspace; Gwenpool has shown to take Thor's arm and summon Mjolnir with it due to Gutterspace. She also created an Infinity Gauntlet (link listed on her profile, idrk much about it since I haven't read that comic specifically): Shouldn't it warrant, at least, a mention on her equipment and AP section?
  3. Magic: She has Magic due to a magic rocket. Even if I asume it is because her profile is older than it, why isn't it linked to the Marvel Comics Magic instead of the P&A magic?
  4. She also compared her reality warping abilities to Scarlet Witch's. I don't remember the actual statement, so I'd have to re check to see if it implies just versatility or strength. Due to her "encyclopedic knowledge over Marvel Comics", couldn't this warrant at least a possibly higher tier?
  5. It is several times mentioned that her abilities are linkened to what the author wants her to have. Wouldn't this grant some kind of Note in her profile?
Maybe some things are not applied due to her profile being outdated. I'd like an answer anyway, if possible, since I may work if I have some free time to rework her profile and would like how to correctly do it.

My knowledge over Marvel in general, let alone how this wiki treats it is very limited, btw. So sorry in advance if I ask some questions that were answered in other comics and/or CRTs
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Magic: She has Magic due to a magic rocket. Even if I asume it is because her profile is older than it, why isn't it linked to the Marvel Comics Magic instead of the P&A magic?
Click to expand...
Outdated profile.

JustANormalPerson01 said:
Due to her "encyclopedic knowledge over Marvel Comics", couldn't this warrant at least a possibly higher tier?
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Extremely doubtful.

JustANormalPerson01 said:
It is several times mentioned that her abilities are linkened to what the author wants her to have. Wouldn't this grant some kind of Note in her profile?
Click to expand...
Maybe some form of plot hax.
 
Was reading a Dr. Doom thread where people commented that Marvel was behind DC tierwise cuz the latter has Tier 0 characters, than I had the idea to try and search if we could actually try to get a fight to work.

Then, I ask you what yall think about Dream Of The Endless vs Lady Death. Would they be able to affect one another? Would it be a stomp? If so, why?
Incon would be very based ngl
 
noninho said:
Then, I ask you what yall think about Dream Of The Endless vs Lady Death. Would they be able to affect one another? Would it be a stomp? If so, why?
Incon would be very based ngl
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Stomp because Sandman's profile sucks and Death pretty much resists everything in his (current) arsenal via Marvel Magic. I'm glad the Death vs Death match wasn't added either because, even if DC has a tier 0, their profiles are still dogwater, even more than Marvel's, lmao.
 
Tomfer said:
We barely have any tier 8-Bs, even less ones with good profiles. The only good profile we can use is Moon Knight and he either stomps or gets stomped. (And even his profile is outdated, I'm still working on it)
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UGH! So boring.
time to upgrade our street tiers past building.
 
MadeByZiggy said:
UGH! So boring.
time to upgrade our street tiers past building.
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There's a debate that is talking about removing the difference of 9-B to 8-C with our street tiers but that's still going to take time. And making them go past building level is not going to happen, lmao. Unless you're willing to read decades worth of content and calc multiple feats beyond 8-C, if you ever do that, you're a maniac.

Also, going back on the jjk matching. Actually, MK vs some 8-B can actually happen. (MK is still oudated, but it can still happen lmao)
 
Question here:
Can a multipler be done based on volume change? Like if a character can grow 9 times bigger then that character would have 9 times multiplier to AP, Speed ect.?
 
noninho said:
Once again I'm here to tell sad news: Spider-Man's profile has several images imgur took down. Was looking at his Intelligence and stamina sections and it's gone.
Whoever gets the time and resources to fix it, please do
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That would be greatly appreciated, yes. 🙏
 
i haven't been able to read Marvel comics since 2023, is there anything i should read to keep up?

I'm very content with the upgrades the marvel comics has gotten, this has been my original thoughts. I'm quite curious on the mystery outside of even the House of ideas.
 
Well, Al Ewing's Defenders comic books are good, and so is his Thor run, even though he downplays Thor to ridiculous degrees.

I also liked Rainbow Rowell's She-Hulk comic books, but they are an acquired taste. 🙏

I haven't really enjoyed anything else I have read from Marvel Comics during the past few years.
 
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An upgrade for Ego the Living Planet

DivineCreator389

Thread 'Ego the Living Planet revisions'

Ego the Living Planet should receive an upgrade and a new key: Ego-Prime, which scale to H1-A, and it should not be considered an outlier.

Ego-Prime​


High Outerverse-level:​


 
which is the strongest When it comes to reality warping? Marquise of Death, Mad Jim Jaspers or Franklin???

Marquise was shown to destroy universes and control(?) eternity, Mad Jim was said to be a thread to the omniverse etc.
 
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